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Re: Frenchness [Gary in SD] [ In reply to ]
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your understanding of politics is simply astonishing Gary...you should join the Bush administration.

your understanding of Europe too is so brilliant...
you should abstain yourself to make any comment on Europe (or France for that matter) when the only
thing you know about Europe is: it's somewhere east, and there is a country that makes nice wheels and that has a cool bike race.

See, I live in the US, and truly love this country (which does not mean I have to like everything about it). But to try to understand what is going on, I am trying to get some knowledge of American history, american constitution, politics etc...
you make comments on things you know absolutely nothing about...
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Re: Frenchness [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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I have no proble with French people, many former frenchies as freinds, its the way that France is using their veto as leverage to put them in a position of temporary power.

We are going into Iraq.

When we are done, free the opressed Iraquis, learn of the horrible lives they had, learn of the terrors of the regime, learn the real reasons France wants to stay out and we find the weapons of mass destruction what will your beloved country say then? What light will France be held in when we show the thousands of chemical and biological bombs to the world?

If France does not back us then they are not our allies are they?

Bush said "you are either with the U.S. or you are with the terrorists".

I guess we know where France stands now.

They are not allies of the U.S., it is very clear they are not our freinds.
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Re: You really would have been better suited to [JustCurious] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure if you're trying to draw conclusions for me or not, but I certainly haven't stated or advocated either part of that statement. Plus given our recent tendency only react and not act. I would say that the state of things is such that regardless of who the plan dictates is to be attacked and killed, we do nothing until it's done.

Granted, the current administration is trying to change this by being proactive against what it views as a very real threat. (I certainly applaud their efforts to be proactive.) All the posturing and argument that's going on is just a debate over how accurate they are in their assessment. I, for one, think that the debate is a healthy and good thing and am open to evidence and arguments from both sides. I'm simply inclined to think that if they're having this hard a time convincing allies that Iraq is the threat they think it is, then maybe they don't have as compelling a case as they'd like us to believe.
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Re: Frenchness [Gary in SD] [ In reply to ]
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Bush said "you are either with the U.S. or you are with the terrorists".

that would not be the first time he says something stupid, wouldn't it....
Explain to me why suddenly after 24 (yes, twenty four...) years of Saddam in Iraq, suddenly he has an urge to help the poor iraqis??

Stop saying "we are going to war"...they are, the us soldiers, you will be watching comfie in your chair...then you'll go for a ride...

Also, one history question: which country is the only country to ever use weapons of mass destruction on civilians?
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My last post for Gary! [ In reply to ]
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I agree your government is great,
check this. I was wrong.

www.whitehouse.com
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Re: Frenchness [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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What brought WW II to an end and Iraq are apples and oranges. That action saved perhaps a million or more American lives. SH has ALSO used WMD on his own people. That would be the equilivant of our government bombing say....El Paso. Two totally different scenarios. I agree with the above posts. I have no problem with French people, they have a right to their opinion. It is their government which perhaps needs a regime change!

Craig
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Re: Frenchness [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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you know nothing of what I do for a living, I spent 10 years fighting drug cartels in south/central america to free us from that crap in the 90's, so shove it ... I did my time in the military, I was in Desert Storm as well, what the h*ll do you know about anything? I saw Kuwait after Saddam had his troops trash the city.

He tore everything up, paintings, museums, glasswork ... blew holes in the road for no reason, trashed the place, broke windows, looted the town, killed Kuwaiti civilians, it was bad.
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Re: Frenchness [snaildoc] [ In reply to ]
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a million americans? when all historians agree that Japan was ready to capitulate even before the bombs were dropped???
If your gov. was so right about what it did, why did Bill Clinton make public apologies to the Japanese?

I agree, SH has WMD. He has used them on his people. Then in Sierra Leone, there are about 100,000 people without a hand, a foot, or both, because rebels hunt them and torture them? does Bush plan to help them?
In North Korea people are starved to death by their gov. Does Bush plan to help?

I agree, Saddam has to go one way or another. Though what euro gov. have said is: as long as there is a peaceful way to do so, let's follow this path.
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Re: Frenchness [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Francois, I have no quarrel with you personally, just hoping for a lively debate which we are having. I am enjoying it as I hope you and others are as well.

Bill Clinton is a no back bone weeny. I'd have told the Japs to shut up, just as all the other people who think they are owed something from the past. It is today, get used to it! History is history. Apologizing to the Japanese served no useful purpose for us.

N. Korea, yes we will help them. Only it will come to a head over their government and their irresponsible actions.

Sierra Leon-by all means help them too, as well as any other place where bad things happen. Only thing is soldiers do that kind of work and it is very unpleasant, ask Gary from SD.

Craig
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Re: Frenchness [snaildoc] [ In reply to ]
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I have no quarrel with anyone. Just pointed out that what the media are telling you and what is being said by the french gov. are two different things. the other day on tv when chirac was talking the translation was all BS...

One point I seriously disagree: today is today...the actions of our gov. have to be based on the past, not to repeat the same mistakes. History is important. This is what Europe with several thousands of years of history has learnt the hard way. This is why Europe now understands that is so important to stick together and come up to a peaceful solution.

Apologizing does not hurt your pride or your ego. It does not make you a lesser man or a lesser country. it shows compassion and understanding, two of the values of the religion that GWB has been so inclined to refer to in recent days.
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Re: Frenchness [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Bush is an idiot. He is following in the footsteps of his father. This isnt to help any starving iraquis, it's to finish what his dad started.

WMD...i would have to say that hitler used them with the concentration camps, as well as stalin and his great purges...they both killed over 5 million people each.

Saddam needs to go...but if the french or russians veto the strike, what will the cost be. There needs to be an agreement on the most effective and globally sound method of taking him out of power, and it cannot only benefit the americans, as many other moves of the sort have done (the americans love dictatorships, but only when they can control the leader)



-kevin




"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."
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Re: Frenchness [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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You raise a particularly good point. Translation is such a iffy prospect, kind of like statistics. Please give more insight to what the French govt actually said.

I am outt here for the day, I'll be back tomorrow

Craig
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Re: Frenchness [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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The Euro governments are proposing inspections for 45 more days or various scenarios. In the meantime America's military is at Iraq's door giving SH a reason to let inspectors into Iraq in the first place. Those men and women are sitting in the desert as the temperatures climb. They will have to wear rubber suits to protect against the weapons SH says he doesn't have. Iraq is digging in making the loss of life greater if an invasion is required to disarm Iraq. I haven't heard Germany, France, Russia, China et al say they will send forces to provide the incentive for SH to continue the inspections. Maybe extended inspections will do the trick but let the Americans and British go home and have Germany, France, Russia and China put up the force required if they fail.
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Sorry, I think I understand what you are [ In reply to ]
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suggesting but I am not familiar enough to say for certain given that I am one of the immigrants that Gary in SD hates.............

Please elucidate.......



ANdrew
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So if a democrat is against the war they are the [ In reply to ]
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enemy?

You really were born 70 years to late and in the wrong country, you are far more suited to Hitlers and Goebels Europe than you are to a country where free speech and differing opinions are meant to be respected.

It is blatantly clear from every post in which you have addressed this issue that you cant seem to differentiate between people that would like to work this out with out war, and Al Queda. You clearly feel that anyone that disagrees with the Bush office's policy of carpet bombing Baghdad is for all intense and purposes a terrorist.

This alone singles you out as a ___________, lets see if you can guess the word.........

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

I think this would sum up your views on what the US's role in the world should be quite succinctly.

Bet you cant guess the word...........
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Re: Frenchness [snaildoc] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
SH has ALSO used WMD on his own people. That would be the equilivant of our government bombing say....El Paso.
Actually it would be more equivalent to our government turning machine guns on unarmed people because their differentness is seen as a threat. The Lakota "Sioux" have a lot in common with the Kurds.
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Re: Protect American Citizens from what? [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Listen I don't think you need to start bad mouthing somone elses country. Like your dumb ass knows what really goes on in the world. Before Sept. 11th you would have said the same about BL. Aren't you the one that was bragging about your hockey team? If they are soooo tough have them watch the borders your guards do a darn poor job!
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Re: Sad day for France... [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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the french sucks! their women have hair all over their bodies and the men like wearing womens clothing. also andrewmc sucks. and anyone that doesn't like our presidents policy on dealing with iraq sucks.
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Re: Sad day for France... [QR guy] [ In reply to ]
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well said genius...and we have beret, and we walk with a baguette under the arm...
and we are the greatest in the world, and my dad is stronger than yours, and he is a cop, and will beat your dad up....
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Re: Sad day for France... [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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One thing to keep in mind... Historically, the reason that we don't interfere in other states' affairs is because what goes on in the state is internal to that state. That is a fundamental principle of international law, and it has minimized conflict for years. However, if that state's domestic affairs become a threat, which can spill over to other states, then intervention is necessary. Thus, Afganistan's invasion was justified, in the sense that the lawlessness/or implicit authority in that country enabled Al Quaeda to develop into a potent force. Sierra Leone, while unspeakably tragic, does not fit into that doctrine. Iraq does, as its leadership, with its past behaviour, such as invasion of Kuwait, the war with Iraq, and its support of terrorist organizations, fits into this doctrine. Intervention can be justified. The UN's lack of support is unfortunate, especially as it is needed as an instrument for post-war Iraq.

Food for thought...

"We have peace in our time" - Neville Chamberlain, after the Munich crisis, when Germany swallowed Czechoslovakia, and Britain and France did nothing to save her, and Hitler, emboldened, then continued with his acquistions, and the rest is history..
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Well apparently you are as stupid as you are [ In reply to ]
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illiterate.

1, I am not Canadian.

2, I am a US immigrant.

3, I do know, probably far better than you, what goes on in the world.

4, True republican response, if you disagree with them you must be the enemy. There was a German that thought like that at the beginning of the last century, you're very open minded. I can tell.

Before you start posting illiterate and factually incorrect remarks, get your story straight.
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Re: Sad day for France... [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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It's interesting how our sport has changed. It's gone from a high IQ to an average IQ sport, sad but true.

Francois, there is not much I would add to your posts, great job!

I just wonder how it can happen that so different opinions form. Probably the media have a lot to do with it. It's funny that this seems so cristal clear to me and others think they do the world a favor by giving bombs.

Did you know that over 50% of Americans think, that SH had his hands in the 9/11 attack?
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Re: You really would have been better suited to [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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"I still believe that it is better to have SH destroying weapons because of a threat than having american soldiers (or other countries if there is eventually no alternative) risking their lives, and throwing bombs on iraqis (which is unlikely to decrease the number of terrorists who hate the us...)"

Francois, people seem to have gotten a little fired up and you are taking some nasty shots. Hang in there. I agree with you, but I want to ask where the above statement leads. I truly believe that the ONLY reason SH is doing anything is because 300,000 troops are ready to cross his border tomorrow, if need be. The US cannot keep 300,000 troops mobilized indefinitely. As soon as the UN agrees to replace these troops with their own, AND they convince me that there is still a credible threat of force, then I (the hypothetical U.S. President) would be willing to let the UN take over.

Short of that, I think the U.S. is backed into a corner and has to get this over with before the weather gets too hot so we can negotiate with N. Korea from a position of strength. With all due respect, notice that N.Korea isn't asking for one-on-one talks with the UN.
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Re: Sad day for France... [agret] [ In reply to ]
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and 70% of New Yorkers agree to follow the UN and not go to war without UN's agreement..

as I said: learn from History...
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Re: You really would have been better suited to [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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I can only speak for myself as an Englishman when I say that I do not welcome war.But it is time that we support our forces in the Gulf in ridding Iraq of that despot who has been murdering his people for years. Had the metal been seized the first time and allowed the allied forces to remove SH many lives would have been spared.


"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
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