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ST Bannister Mile Challenge
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Today Sir Roger Bannister passed away at the age of 88. First man to break the 4 min mile and one of the pioneers in terms of pacing and applying some semblance of science to his training and prep.

So how about challenging ourselves to a timed mile this week (well, those of you in run shape and not injured etc). We got a virtual ST swim meet going on, how about a virtual track meet starting with the mile?

My favourite mile race of all time was when Bannister and Landy both broke 4 minutes at the Empire Games in 1954. This one is a perfect contrast of pacing and racing with brain power. Most people are convinced that Landy was actually the better runner from a physical perspective, he was just racing like Pre before Pre was racing like that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP_NzZP_LK0
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds good. Can we do it in swimming? If so, I've gotta ask: "official" mile races, per FINA and USA swimming rules, or the true mile? In FINA, that would be the 1500m (short course or long course), and in USA Swimming, that's 1650 yards.

Meters: 1609 (64 or 32 lengths plus 9 meters)
Yards: 1760 (70 lengths plus 10 yards)
Last edited by: 140triguy: Mar 4, 18 8:37
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Hello devanish_paul and All,

Nice video of race ... fun to watch.

Here is another note about Bannister ....

https://www.yahoo.com/...notification-brknews

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
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140triguy wrote:
Sounds good. Can we do it in swimming? If so, I've gotta ask: "official" mile races, per FINA and USA swimming rules, or the true mile? In FINA, that would be the 1500m (short course or long course), and in USA Swimming, that's 1650 yards.

Meters: 1609 (64 or 32 lengths plus 9 meters)
Yards: 1760 (70 lengths plus 10 yards)

What is this crazy talk about swimming on a Bannister thread....you're banished to the swim threads!!!!
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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29:27 scy (1800yd) , 6:08 mile in tempo. both yesterday.


http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
29:27 scy (1800yd) , 6:08 mile in tempo. both yesterday.

Hey no swimming talk on the Bannister thread...save that for the Phelps 4:03 LCM 400IM thread!!!! Nice run!!!
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I’m game. Never raced a mile before so will be quite fun.
Do I get bonus points if I open in 60?

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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oscaro wrote:
I’m game. Never raced a mile before so will be quite fun.
Do I get bonus points if I open in 60?

LOL No bonuses unless you open like Landy in 58.xx!!!! Really save it for the final 600m though. The first 1000m is just controlled fury! Expect the 800 lbs gorilla to make a celebrity appearance on your back somtimes after 1300m if you did a great pacing job!
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah opening in 58 does actually seem like great pacing seeing as my the only 400 I’ve raced was mid 57.
Think it will go like this:
100m - Man I feel great
200m - Okay this is pretty fast
300m - Is this track really 400m?
400m - What do you mean 3 more laps??

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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oscaro wrote:
Yeah opening in 58 does actually seem like great pacing seeing as my the only 400 I’ve raced was mid 57.
Think it will go like this:
100m - Man I feel great
200m - Okay this is pretty fast
300m - Is this track really 400m?
400m - What do you mean 3 more laps??

No it never goes like that....100m-200m is not enough time for the brain to clue in.

It's more like

400m "I just matched my all time 800m average pace, that was easy"
600m "where is everyone, what a bunch of pikers"
800m "Hey, I thought I was going to break my 800m all time PB at the pace I was going....that last 400m did not feel that slow, what's going on"
1000m "Did someone fill my lungs with pellet gun shells"?
1200m "Those tourists just closed the gap, I can stay with them"
1300m "who put those ten lbs weights on my ankes???? Those guys in front a barely jogging, I can't believe I can't close"
1400m "Looks up at stadium big screen monitor....shit there is no one behind me!!!"
1500m "They already gave out the national flags and these skinny dudes from the rift valley are trotting around like they just did a 100m with Bolt
1600m - Collapse, worst road rash of my life, and not even in a bike race.
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Both are fantastically horrible ideas (count me in). All aboard the pain train!

Lars Finanger
VALHALLA SPORTS
Last edited by: VALHALLA: Mar 5, 18 8:46
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Timed mile this week? Dang was at the track this morning with sore legs mind you.

The top 50-59AG in this weeknd's 5K ran a ~ 20:00, so a 6 min mile would be pretty quick?



PS: What amazes me about my running is that I feel like I'm working it 110% and fast, yet the person that passes me looks so slow.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://www.jagersport.com/
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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that was a spectacular race..
according to a great book 'The Perfect Mile' Neil Bascombe, Landy had a spike wound in his foot that was festering, in that race.. but he never mentioned it.
Bannister did most of his training and racing for the 4min mile, during food rationing in Britain - a pound of meat a week..
those were some tough guys.

Dr Sir Professor Roger Bannister, we shall not see his like again.. may his memory be eternal.

I wonder if I can still break 8 minutes ? ha.

--

The earth seemed to move with me. I had found a new source of power and beauty, a source I never dreamt existed.
- on running as a child, the mystic Bannister in 'The Four Minute Mile'.
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Count me in.
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [AdamML] [ In reply to ]
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The best advice I've seen written for mile pacing strategy [for those of us who are not now/have never been competitive middle distance runners] is to split the race not at the quarters, but according to the various levels of mental strength needed:

First 600m, next 400m, next 200m, last 400m [first 9.34m is added to the first 600]

First 600: goal is to roll out relaxed. Anyone and their mother should be able to roll out of bed and hit 600m at their mile race pace. Just dont go more than 2-5s under your RP for any particular segment [especially not the first 200m]. Dont allow negative thoughts to creep in, you get a free 600m here to hit your splits properly. Watch the 200 go by, then the 400, and 600. Make tiny adjustments if you're running too fast [I doubt you'll be running too slow]

Next 400m: Your low point of the race. Try to shut your brain off. Imagine how happy you are with the result of a solid mile TT/PR/race/etc. If not in a solo TT or in an actual race, try to be in the thick of it, dont give up. Dont chase runners faster than you though. If solo-ing, this is the mentally toughest segment. Try not to slow down any if at all possible. You enter the red zone at the start of this [600m mark] and are mentally checked out and looking for places to quit/step off the track. Don't give in. If you can tough out 600m-1000m you've made it: you have a decent mile TT effort at the very least and still might be on pace for a PR [or a masters PR, or this seasons PR, or this months, or who cares, a solid effort]

Next 200m: Slow down. Yup. Breathe. Arms, legs. Pump, breathe a lot here. Use your other body parts to bail you out here. Breathing is likely getting out of control and 2/2 breathing pattern has left the window. Get it back. Allow your pace to drift down a notch--not a ton. But effectively whatever your RP is you drop it just a hair [1-2s/400m slower, not more than this, you will not need to slow down much just let off a hair]

Final 400m: Regardless of how bad you feel, you will have an anaerobic tank left. For most mortals, this is further split into the first 100m of this lap where you're winding yourself up to the last all-out effort. From 300m out full purple zone [past red], this is where the final second or two of your PR is made. Go for it, dont be a baby, it will be over soon. You're tougher than you think. If you actually blow up: kudos, shake it off and try again next week. But at least you made an honest effort out of it and didn't step off at the 800m mark like most people do. Just to re-iterate, this final lap is basically run on your heart. The first lap was run on your internal pace-clock where hopefully you channeled your inner adult and not your inner 8-yr old and blow your race in the first 200m. The second lap was basically run on your fitness, the third lap on your guts, and the last lap is that magical 'free' lap you get when your start your kick.

It's a bit more nuanced than that if you can recognize that the first 600m of the effort was actually incredibly easy. You need no mental fortitude for the first 600m, but it is quite tempting to step off the track right at the halfway point and you need to prepare for that mentally. Just remind yourself that your reward for hanging in through the first 600m and the 'tough' lap [lap 1.5 through 2.5] is the 'slowdown' right before the final lap from 1000-1200.

Sample splits from my sad/slow 5:58 this weekend:

400m-- 1:23 (I cant follow my own rules)
800m-- 1:30 (only lap I followed my plan)
1200m-1:33 (blowing it a bit)
1600m -1:29 (Just a little slower than I hoped to be here, I didnt feel like hurting too badly here but I did purple-zone)
+2.3s last 9.34m

//Noob triathlete//bike commuter//ex-swimmer//slower than you

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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Just read this thread.

I actually pulled on my shoes yesterday after getting home from work and ran a mile in honour of Sir Roger.

I haven't been running (except for an occasional trot) since mid 2016, so it was always going to "interesting". Managed 7:07. Nothing to be proud of and a good couple of minutes off my PR from nearly 30 years ago, but I might make this a regular thing until I'm running sub 6.
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Well that was awful! Second worst race of my life after running the 800 a few months ago. Managed a 4:47, followed by 20 minutes of pathetic clinging to a trashcan. Still kinda fun though and will def try again on the outdoor track when it gets warmer.
400- 1:09
800- 2:22
1200- 3:37
1609- 4:47

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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oscaro wrote:
Well that was awful! Second worst race of my life after running the 800 a few months ago. Managed a 4:47, followed by 20 minutes of pathetic clinging to a trashcan. Still kinda fun though and will def try again on the outdoor track when it gets warmer.
400- 1:09
800- 2:22
1200- 3:37
1609- 4:47

Congrats. I see you negative split your first 400m vs last 409m and you positive split 2nd and 3rd lap vs 1st. So did it play out a bit like a described above? (400m seemed so easy, 800m you thought you were going at the same pace until you see the clock etc)?
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Well kind of, I told myself I wasn't gonna hit 800 under 2:20 cause I would be in for a world of hurt (ended up with just that anyhow), and first 400 felt awesome, but after 600 I started to get feel the speed and also hit with the realization that I had 5 laps to go (was on a banked indoor track). I did feel my speed slowing down a bit between 6-800. I have a decent kick so managed to at least close with a 30s 200 which at least got me under 4:50.

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Good plan, I'm going to go do this tomorrow morning! Not sure I've ever run a mile flat out, certainly not since school days, closest would be doing some 1 mile intervals at around 5K pace.

I'm assuming that psychologically it's going to be somewhat similar to a 2000m rowing test (linking to your other thread...) which used to take me 6:1x in my heyday, which I figure is going to be pretty close to what a mile takes me.
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Great idea: I "hammered" a fairly pedestrian 7:04 mile during the middle of the group run last night.

In my defense there was 118 feet of gain over the segment with an average 2% grade. Tempted to take another stab at it later this week and see if I can go faster.
Last edited by: legmonster: Mar 6, 18 7:45
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Just seen this. I'm super unfit and have a calf injury but will make an effort to run to the Regents Park track that Roger trained on to do this tomorrow.
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [legmonster] [ In reply to ]
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legmonster wrote:
Great idea: I "hammered" a fairly pedestrian 7:04 mile during the middle of the group run last night.

In my defense there was 118 feet of gain over the segment with an average 2% grade. Tempted to take another stab at it later this week and see if I can go faster.

Go for it guys!! Once you get on the crack plan of being sucked into the mile race on your own, you can't look at a track without saying, "Man, my last time sucked, I know I can beat it" and then you see those orange rings on google maps sucking you in to the ever elusive perfect mile race, that really can never ever happen your lifetime. I am sure Bannister you tell us that he never ran his perfect mile race and in every race no matter how fast he left time on the table.

Dev
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I've updated my Beer Mile bib accordingly



Not sure exactly when I'll drop the hammer on it, though

“Don’t take your ability to do stupid things for granted”
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Re: ST Bannister Mile Challenge [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I've been struggling to come back from IT band, but managed a mile straight 2 days in a row now! I will submit my fastest one as my time for this.

7:55!!!

Strava I Instagram
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