Fair, but how is this new design supposed to address those complaints? It's hard to refill (ok, capacity might solve that but what if you wantd to refill, or dilute on the go) too. what about cleaning it if you put anything but water in there? What about the length of that straw? Isn't it harder to suck things up thru long straws? How is that not an issue here?

• It's hard to refill (ok, capacity might solve that but what if you wantd to refill, or dilute on the go) too.
  

It was never designed or advertised to be refilled.

• what about cleaning it if you put anything but water in there?

pull the straw and bladder out, use soap and water, and clean it. Then, put it back in the bike.

• What about the length of that straw?

What about it?

• Isn't it harder to suck things up thru long straws?

Gravity forces water down from the bladder and up the straw. Shouldn't be any harder than the current Shiv

• How is that not an issue here?

It's not an issue. I imagine from extensive testing, and pros using it, that the issues are people on Slowtwitch and not a straw.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

You would need quite a bit of force to counteract gravity and push water back up into the bladder....

I don't understand why refilling this thing is such an issue?

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Alternatively then wouldn't having a refueling valve at the top of the sail which would be connect/disconnectable from the bladder be a minor redesign. I think its the fact that its a "super bike" and at this price point, people really scrutinize and expect ALL issues to be addressed.

In the words of the great aaron rodgers: R-E-L-A-X. Haha

You expect when the water levels get low, and i mean getting those last few ounces out and not when a full 50oz are pushing on it, that gravity will push water up the downtube? Gravity pulls down, so presumably at some point in the operation you have to get watet from the BB area to your mouth with only suction.

Tim Don has been able to refill the bladder. They talk about how they do this in the other thread.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I am relaxed. I just wish people would read the Specialized engineers comments before freaking out.

Anywho, yes as it gets low suction force would take over. I'd imagine, again, Specialized won't release something that doesn't work. It will work just fine.

We will definitely know more about how the pros are using it this weekend.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

yeah saw that, pop cap open then carefully aim at bladder opening. I they had a top valve say a miniture of the hsf aeria's top, it'd just be reach blind until you find it and squeeze bottle content once found which i feel would be magnitudes easier.

The thing everyone is missing about this bike was that it was not designed to be refilled while racing. It's simply water hidden in a frame that gives you 2 extra bottles.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Lets have some perspective here...in your own words, the old bladder didn't work 100% perfect: "People said it was hard to use, hard to refill, etc. A bunch of local people with Shivs don't use the bladder."

This new system, It's a great design idea and I give them credit for trying something new and innovative, seriously I do, but I have concerns regarding the functionality, I think many people do. Sponsored Pros won't come out and say the straw sucks...but as always time will tell us if the design works well!

Well, everyone's idea of what works and doesn't is different. 1 local guy in my group actually likes it. The others don't. I don't own a Shiv so I can't say.

I guess I'm just someone who doesn't rush to negative judgement over Instagram photos of a new bike. I'm excited.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I get that, read that verbatim more than a few times in this thread and others.

I come back to price point and expectations. Every product is designed around specific parameters. But that does not mean those parameters are the end all.

Dont get me wrong, I find the idealology and astetics appealing.

But at this price point and the minor magnitude of this issue. I feel like specialized could easily say "we'll look into it" And have a easy fix. It's a 14 grand bike afterall.

Even from a liability aspect, you know someone IS going to attempt what Tim is doing with less than a tenth of the skill resulting in less than spectacular results.

I've seen people pull a bottle from behind the saddle and swerve all over the road.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

No...just no.......and my reaction is based on the way the bike looks....its just ugly.....that being said maybe it is a well designed bike....the P-5X grew on me....so I reserve the right to change my opinion. :)

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

To be honest your headline is also very “2018 Social Media” completely misleading and a bit irresponsible since Specialized has specifically said it is NOT intended to be a refillable container on the fly. Will people do it? Yes. Has Specialized told them to do so the way your headline suggests? No. In fact, they said the exact opposite.

When it comes to the design of this bike, to me it seems all engineer driven and no artistry...German like...I'm not a fan of Canyon's uber straight lines either.

The fork intrigues me, aesthetically it's ugly. We will see how Specialized athletes do on Saturday.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

The only thing worth watching is how their athletes do refilling this bottle. I have a hard time believing anyone on ST is stupid enough to buy/not buy a bike based on the results a pro athlete achieved on that bike (which is lei Koh more customized and not the same exact bike you would buy anyways). That is something my 9 year old would do.

Ewwwwwwwww! That's a deal breaker for me! I don't want my water ANYWHERE NEAR where I peed-absolutely yuck!

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DFL > DNF > DNS

You must be new here. Welcome to Slowtwitch!

Unless the lid pops open. Did you learn nothing the other day? LOL

Because it didn't occur that this could ever happen (again)at an Ironman...

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DFL > DNF > DNS

I’ve witnessed this in almost every race I’ve done. Good on Specialized for recognizing that triathletes have no handling skills (by not making a claim that the bladder can be refilled on the fly).

I owned a Shiv for a couple of years. I used the bladder together with BTA, only in races (just BTA and BTS in training), and after adding a camelback valve to the system (nice how-to thread here back in the day).
Did I like it? Yes. Was it perfect? Hell no! A nightmare to clean if you use anything but water, and sometimes, even with the top quality valve, sucking water from it was too much of an effort.
Now, looking at this new system, these are my main concerns. Refilling? I totally see it as the Spez guys. Won’t bother refilling, just use it for as long as the content lasts, and then move on and enjoy the aero advantage of the sail. But, cleaning is another story. Just “take it out, use soap and water” just does not describe what I needed to do with the older bladder. And I hope I am wrong in this, but good luck to the ones trying to drink the last 300/400 cc from the reservoir (added weight anyone?)

That said, I loved my Shiv, was waiting for this one, and although I really like it, I will not shell out 12k€ for it.

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Sr. Salitre

Very well said. I too have a SHIV and I see zero incentive to 'upgrade'. The more moving parts the more potential problems.

Of course. Anyone thinking a long straw is easy to clean because it's reroutable has another thing coming. And btw, water and soap? Yeah, right. You're gonna need pressure, a good amount of it, and something that cleans and desinfects thoroughly. Food grade hypochlorite would be my first try.