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Got my Zipp 404 front and glued on the Tufo Special Jet. I decided that before the Tri spoke hits the auction block I would try a Seat Of The Pants test. I decided on a 20 mile loop that has climbs, short steep climbs, rollers, and flats. I decided to ride each wheel over one lap at the same heart rate. The wind was out of the west at 18-20 MPH. This allowed for head, cross, and tail winds. On the flats I couldn't tell a difference. On the hills it was evident that the Zipp "felt" faster. The short steep climb(250m at 15%) showed the Zipp was better. The crosswinds were rollers. When rolling along on a downside at 35 MPH or so the H3 was definitly more sketchy but a little faster. I was more relaxed and felt better on the Zipp. The tailwind was a toss-up with no real difference.
The diffenence? H3 average speed 20.4 MPH. Zipp 404 average speed 21.8 MPH Roughly 3:40 faster.
H3 Clincher with Conti 19mm GP at 130psi. Zipp 404 tubular with Tufo Special Jet 19mm at 160psi.
Not scientific by any stretch. I'm very happy to change to the Zipp. No hill? Probably pretty even. Hills? Zipp for sure.
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can you turn your colors from 'gumpy morning grey' to 'glad to be alive yellow'?
what he did was something way more important than wind tunnels or computer models. he found confidence in his equipment. he now know that the 404s where the right choice for him and has put to rest any doubt about wheel choice. that is fantastic come race time.
i used a m4 in the military. i was always hearing crap about it being nothing but a toy and that ballastic science might not agree with the caliber. instead just kept it clean shot it well and didn't worry. see my point? sometimes you just gotta figure it out on your own.
if you ever need a hug let me know. i'm here to please.
customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
Last edited by:
customerjon: Aug 29, 03 18:36
Chameleon, Let me guess, your favorite wheel is an H3? Second, If cardiac drift is such a factor after and hour at my aerobic threshold wouldn't my heartrate be higher for a given power output? Therefore I actually used less energy with the Zipps? Third what part of seat of the pant does your anal retenive self not understand? You want emperical data? Pay for it. If you don't like a SEAT OF THE PANT post.....move on. Not to hard is it?
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My 2 cents on the subject. I've owned both sets of wheels myself, and currently use the H3s. I'm willing to bet if you did a very involved lab studying controling all your variables and such you'll find they probabaly are almost exactly the same for most tri courses..the h3 MIGHT be better on very flat courses with some side angle winds and the 404 might be better on a more hilly course.....bases on the aero data I've seen on the weights......this being said...who gives a crap...ride the wheels ya like better....since the motor is you and sometimes what makes you feel faster is more important than what is faster.........
In defense of Mr. Chameleon, just about every windtunnel test result I have seen puts the Hed3 above the 404. This is a much more scientific and objective test than riding around one's favorite training loop using a HRM.
If the test were to be repeated with identical tires at identical pressures and a power meter the results might be a little more objective.
Granted, the tests were not scientific but as he said, this was a seat of the pants kind of thing.
Which test did you do first? My assumption is that you did the 404 first. Even as unscientific as it was, I would be interested to see if the results changed when you rode the H3 first.
Sounds like you had fun with the test. Thanks for posting.
"Bothered doing it'? "waste your time"? Since when was going for a 40 mile ride a bother or waste of time? Tell you what, you continue your debate. I'll go waste my time riding my bike and racing my Zipp wheel. That is if I can "fool myself" into enjoying it.
As Sgt. Huklka once said "Lighten up Francis."
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Slider,
I like the posting - clearly an N=1 test with many variables but thats a big difference between the 2 wheels. I'm glad you posted it and it would be fun if more people did this. I'd like to hear the results of a couple repeat tests just to see how it varies. Don't let the gripers get you down - let them gripe. What kind of fork were you using (I hear that fork differences make a big difference with the H3)?
I do plan on a couple more SOTP tests. I'll probably post them here. Why not?... The fork is a Profile BDC. This test was H3 first then 404. I plan on the same course (I'm waiting on similar winds.) with the order reversed. Then maybe a very hilly and a very flat course. Should be fun.
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Did you ever get that Renn disk Slider?
please don't post the results. anyting other then wind tunnel testing is trash. as we all know we race in wind tunnels.
customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
"I suppose that explains your moniker."
uh yeah...uh..sure does...i guess...ok...right
customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
Paul, its still on the way. Only been on order for a little over 2 weeks. Should be here in plenty of time for IMF. :-)
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yep. you win.
customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.