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Re: Running off the Bike in Training- Beneficial or Recipe for Injury [LSandersTri] [ In reply to ]
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LSandersTri wrote:
I think we will have to agree to disagree. Philosophically speaking, I believe that everyone is unique, the sample size is always N=1, one size does not fit all, nothing is ever proven, and any other way you can hash that same idea. I think a good program is guided by scientific reasoning, advice from sound sources, etc. but never dictated by it. While on the topic of philosophy, I believe much of this is in the mind anyway. Once you come even remotely near to your limits, any further gains will come from your mind. Thus, once you've reached a certain degree of proficiency, I'd say do more workouts that give you confidence and build mental strength. This will be your best shot at reaching your "limits."

I think we can all agree on the part in bold about doing SOME workout that give you confidence and mental strength. If we can strip down the two purposes of training, the first is to make the body physiologically stronger, then once that is done, then it's about using the mind to optimally extract as much race day speed as possible out of the maximally optimized physiological state. The question really is about what needs to be done to get to that physiological state while also getting to the mentally optimized state. In the quest for the latter, you don't want to give away any of the former.

With respect to nothing really ever been proven, if anyone agrees with that, it would be me....however after a long period, we find that certain hypothesis end up solidifying with a large number of data driven observations from which we can draw some solid conclusions...in that vein, as Dan Empfield has said, we are all more alike than we are different and the N=1000000 results like apply equally well to your N=1 sample size, in other words, while you may be an outlier in some areas (the top line numbers of our engine), you're likely not an outlier when it comes to how basic human physiology is maximized. So do you really want to waste potential performance upside by experimenting on yourself, or do you want to get the most out of you.

If you want to maximize the mental game, go spend some time with Macca (well when he as on), Whitfield or Peter Reid. These guys are masters of this. No need to experiment much. Anyway, consider another path. You might be unbeatable if you do.
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Re: Running off the Bike in Training- Beneficial or Recipe for Injury [LSandersTri] [ In reply to ]
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LSandersTri wrote:
I think we will have to agree to disagree. Philosophically speaking, I believe that everyone is unique, the sample size is always N=1, one size does not fit all, nothing is ever proven, and any other way you can hash that same idea. I think a good program is guided by scientific reasoning, advice from sound sources, etc. but never dictated by it. While on the topic of philosophy, I believe much of this is in the mind anyway. Once you come even remotely near to your limits, any further gains will come from your mind. Thus, once you've reached a certain degree of proficiency, I'd say do more workouts that give you confidence and build mental strength. This will be your best shot at reaching your "limits."


Lionel,
I'm with Dev and Stover on this one. Everyone is not unique. From a physiological standpoint we are all almost 100% identical. You're ridiculously talented and you can... for the moment... get away with some ridiculous training and things us much less talented (and older) athletes cannot. I have a feeling that could comeback to haunt you via future injuries or setbacks. I don't think anyone wants to see that. Your performances this year were jaw dropping. I've done Syracuse a few times and I know how hard that run course is and your run there was just insane. So insane that I started a thread about it.

While we are more or less 100% physiologically identical we are not 100% psychologically identical. Your training has made you mentally tough as nails. Tougher than anything I can imagine. I have a sneaking suspicion that your body isn't as tough as your brain... and that's where you might get into trouble. No need to reinvent the physiology wheel (which you cannot) when it's been done n=1,000,000 as Dev mentioned.

2018 Races:
INJURED

Favorite Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Last edited by: GMAN19030: Dec 29, 14 6:18
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Re: Running off the Bike in Training- Beneficial or Recipe for Injury [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I will continue to give this topic more serious thought. Thanks for the explanation, feedback and interest. It is much appreciated.

http://www.lsanderstri.com
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Re: Running off the Bike in Training- Beneficial or Recipe for Injury [kiwi nz] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Running off the Bike in Training- Beneficial or Recipe for Injury [LSandersTri] [ In reply to ]
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LSandersTri wrote:
Definitely one of the beauties of triathlon is that there is just so much to tinker around with; and the sport is so young that I don't think anyone has the "golden rule" of training. The unfortunate thing is that there isn't an unlimited amount of time. Each year is an experiment where at the start of the year I tinker with a few things, and then draw conclusions based on race performances. With regards to this thread, I think adding a bit more running on tired legs to the program can pay large dividends, but this definitely doesn't all have to come from the "hard brick." A bit of creativity in this regard can go a long way. That is the only point I would like to make.

Another interesting thing I have found from doing my bike and runs so close together is that I am usually running with lunch still in my belly. Knock on wood, I have had no problems with digestion in races. This seems to be another skill that can be honed utilizing this method.

I bonked badly in my last 70.3 and I think it had to do with not getting enough calories in on the bike. I haven't had digestive issues to this point so I will be doing some experimenting with filling up the tank a little more during the bike.

Good discussion!
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Re: Running off the Bike in Training- Beneficial or Recipe for Injury [kiwi nz] [ In reply to ]
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I do a fair number of brick sets just b/c they're convenient and time efficient. Like today, I did a 40 min trainer set then a brief run of 25 minutes. I only combined them b/c it allowed me to get in both a bike and run with 5 minutes of set up, then 3 minutes to change shoes and put on tights, then 10 minutes to shower at the end. If I did them separately I have double the downtime. I like to run at least 3 times/week and prefer 4-5 so I have to work to find more time for the running. I guess running tired might be more injury prone, but I don't know of any data on that. In some respects I'm warmed up so that might reduce injuries..................

I certainly endorse the practicing of race nutrition and running on dead legs too, but that's only needed in race season.

Brian
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Re: Running off the Bike in Training- Beneficial or Recipe for Injury [TriBri00] [ In reply to ]
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I rarely do bricks, but when I do its for this reason. Sometimes its the only way for me to get both workouts in on the same day.

Aside from that once you've "learned" to run off the bike they're pretty much pointless.
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Re: Running off the Bike in Training- Beneficial or Recipe for Injury [JayZ] [ In reply to ]
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^^^^^ Same here. If I can't split the workout due to time crunch, then brick them.
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Re: Running off the Bike in Training- Beneficial or Recipe for Injury [jdais] [ In reply to ]
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jdais wrote:
^^^^^ Same here. If I can't split the workout due to time crunch, then brick them.

Same. I get to train all disciplines on some days due to using this method.

Swim AM.

Bike then run PM.

On the internet, you can be anything you want. It is a pity so many people choose to be stupid.
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