Disclaimer: I am not a doctor (and I don't even play one on TV).

What you describe (pain setting in AFTER sitting down for a while post-run) sounds like knee irritation caused by muscle tightness. It kind of depends where on the knee it's bothering you.

I had awful knee pain after weightlifting and was convinced I'd overdone it. Physical therapist told me to get a foam roller and roll my quads (the whole quad, IT band all the way across the front of my leg) and it worked like a charm. Considering that the muscles on your upper leg are attached to your knee and your hip, the hip thing might be the same cause. Might be worth trying a foam roller and see if it helps!

Take days off. And keep intensity low. Do not run through joint pain. Your joints will adapt as fast as they can if you give them the recovery they need.

Make sure you have a good pair of well cushioned shoes. Many people like Hokas for this purpose. And if you can do it healthfully, lose a few pounds

I have been running competitively for over 30 years and my joints have to adapt every time i crank up the mileage

I started with running on Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday and it wasn't what I would consider a hard intensity ... I'd equate it to a Zone 2 bike ride. I made it a full week before issues arose and there were no signs of pain, injury or discomfort before the 4th run ... it was an out of the blue issue. The main pain in my knee seems to be on the inner part of my right knee ... could be tight tendons, after running a bit with my dog tonight I massaged the inner part part of my knee and it seems to help. I do have a roller and will see if that helps.



The shoes I picked up seem to be good, well cushioned and I don't think they are the issue



This will always be an issue for me ... last year I dropped down to mid 170's and most people thought I turning anorexic ... I was lighter than I was in the 7th grade. On average I generally run in the mid 180's to low 190's when in race shape for cycling. I'm just built to be a bigger individual (former collegiate thrower ... Hammer was my primary discipline).

I'm guessing, it will take a while as I've had knee issues in the past. I've had my right ACL reconstructed when I was younger, lost some cartilage from another surgery and have had several other instances of messing my knee up, but would take a couple days off and the pain would go away ... though, I knew I had some ligament or tendon damage at the time.

I'm thinking for a while, I'll have to do a run/walk combo until things adapt.

start slowly, dial it back quickly, take days or weeks off and ask us again in about 2-3 years.

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RayGovett
Hughson CA
Be Prepared-- Strike Swiftly -- Who Dares Wins- Without warning-"it will be hard. I can do it"

Do a search for BarryP's running program on slowtwitch. 2+ miles per run starting from scratch is quite a bit IMO if you're already putting in lots of miles on the bike.

Couple of things:

Adaptation can take a long, long time if your biomechanics are really pool. Poor biomechanics are really common in former cyclists with little run background. I'll bet you a dollar that run cross over gait and anterior pelvic tilt while running is an issue for you (google them). Just playing the odds, can't say for sure.

You can start by walking lots. If you want to increase the intensity, try rucking. Maybe start with a 30lb pack. The impact and push off forces are going to be less than running, even with a loaded ruck. You may find that you can enjoy rucking, even heavy, with no pain, while running is still a problem. In that case, if you have no compelling reason to run, maybe rucking is a better answer.

Run/walk is a good choice for now if you really want to run. Think in terms of getting yourself ready to start a run training program in 6 months, so that you are not in a hurry. Patience is the key.

I am not convinced that custom insoles are beneficial for a new runner. I would want to wean myself off of them and let my foot get stronger and work to provide support more naturally. I would certainly try to walk in something more neutral that lets my feet spread out and do their job.

This seems contrary but small doses of sprinting (once to twice per week, just a few) or some jumping rope (especially single leg) can be a nice supplement that can improve durability. It is like very specific, targeted strength training for running. Don't do either if there is pain though.

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Simplify, Train, Live

I had basically the same experience as you when I started running. From cycling I had the big aerobic engine and strong legs and the most frustrating thing was every time I tried running in the off season I'd get some stupid joint or tendon injury. Advice I was given was to run far less and far slower: as in "day one run a mile and you're done. Take the next day off". The hazard we face is that cyclists can easily run farther than the joints are ready to handle. It takes extreme patience and months to let the body adapt to the impact of running.

Best advice I can give is to run on the softest surfaces you have access to and at the first sign of any pain stop. No more than 3 days per week for a couple of months and they are all easy and short, the only purpose is to let your body know that more is to come. The hardest part is having the patience to finish runs thinking you could go farther and faster. I repeatedly made the mistake of doing too much (even though it felt easy) and out of the blue injuries would hit. Finally learned my lesson with two strained achilles that cost me an entire year to properly heal.

Go short, go slow, take days off, do less than than you think you should and build slooooowly. The key and hardest thing is having the patience to let your body's ability to handle the impact of running catch up with your cycling fitness.

For tendon remodeling with running, 3-12wks. Broad range is because if you're an experienced runner, strong, relatively injury-free, the tendons will adapt as training load increases. 12wks for those who are injury prone with faulty biomechanics.


Can understand starting out slow and getting a shoe fit, but custom insoles is a little odd when starting out. Unless you have a condition that an experienced shoe expert identified, would probably take these out. If you're using custom insoles because of your experience with cycling, this does not mean you need them for running.

4th run and immense knee pain is not common, even with hitting too much steady state run volume (as others have said, you need a walk/run program to get started with)...this sounds more like a good cyclist with years of a consistent movement pattern where the feet and lumbar/hips are more "fixed" (saddle/cleats- even with some float), and now you're introducing impact stress and torsion requiring increased muscle recruitment to absorb shock, accelerate, and decelerate. Enough of a difference from cycling which utilizes more concentric movement patterns.

You could rest/recover all you want, but it's not going to get at your underlying problem. You could go and confirm if an acute strain happened, but if the pain is below and in front of the patella, you probably made the patella tendon (or ligament, depending on who you talk to) a little pissed. With the later hip pain, remember you've spent years cycling, recruiting your hip flexors/extensors when seated. Your patella operates as a fulcrum to generate more force...close the hip angle or open the hip angle, and the force applied changes. Now that your hip is allowed to move more, this adds in more stress.

What exactly was the pain later (location and when did you feel it most? All the time, up and/or climbing stairs, when seated, loosened up as day progresses, etc). Also, how much and when are you still cycling?

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http://www.reathcon.com

Thanks for the information everybody...


Rob: The pain is on the inside of the knee, near the medial collateral ligament. The knee only really hurts when there is pressure on it (could be a cartilage issue). When sitting it doesn't hurt, when walking and climbing stairs it hurts a little ... my hips hurt the most for the period of time they hurt (they feel much better now) and caused the most issue when climbing stairs.

I will say, my running mechanics are probably "HORRIBLE" as I've never been a great runner ... I could sprint in my youth, but never ran long distances.

At the time I started I was running just under sub 11 minute miles, by the fourth run I was sub 10 minute miles.

As far as cycling goes ... this season has been up/down. I've had periods of 10-12 hours a week and periods of 0 hours per week. Motivation has been an issue, which is another reason I wanted to change things up a little.

If it was a cartilage issue, you would probably have been feeling something from the years of cycling- definately don't rule it out- but probably less chance of that. MCL would be a stretch but still possible.

Hate to have a hammer/nail approach to this, but it sounds as though this is leaning toward a classic "VMO" tightness. Downstream, you've probably built up a lot of VMO excess tissue remodeling (can a good thing for cycling, b/c it increases stability, but not so good when you're trying to start running), and upstream you've got some hip flexor excessive restriction that needs some range of motion work, and probably some hip abductor weakness (as others have mentioned, this can cause the hip to collapse under the load of running, and so your body is going to rely on a well-developed quad to pick up the slack- making it tighter).

Unless you're working with a DO/PT now, would suggest:

1) lax ball or baseball tissue work on the entire VMO: lay down prone, place the ball on a hard surface, and then your vmo on the ball. Relax as much as possible, and flex the knee as if doing a hamstring curl. Work the entire area.
2) stretch the hell out of your hip flexors by some sport specific run stretch- fast forward to 0:45s on this video, but treat the stretch as a repetition rather than a static stretch (20reps x 6sec), and use a broom stick to support your front and use as a cane (until you get some flexibility in there, it's difficult for most get a feel for the range of motion)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO3DH2Pl9NA
3) Get at the hip abductors (glute medius, classic clam shell excercise)

Do these every day (2x/day if you're motivated- shouldn't take more than 10min for the bum knee), and get a good walk/run program. You might need to plus it up some, but there should be some relief from this approach

Good luck-

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http://www.reathcon.com