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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [sandiegopj] [ In reply to ]
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you basically build at 10% per week.... i go 3 weeks build and 4th week reduce by 10% and build 10% per week again...

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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [uncle_evan] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks that's kind of what I was thinking. I noticed in one of the links Barry provided he talks about this too. Unfortunately I didn't see it til after I posted.

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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [sandiegopj] [ In reply to ]
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Now I'm curious how you would build that up to the needed mileage over the weeks and months. Do you go by a certain % per week? Also, you mentioned there would be times when your mileage plateaus for weeks at a time. How do I know when this will be or needs to be?



You really just have to listen to your body. Last year I had a "plan" to get to 65 miles a week. Desert Dude talked me out of it and suggested I just worry about the actual milage a week at a time. I never got to 65 miles. In fact, I peaked at 54 miles and cut back from there since I was struggling. Most of my weeks during the last parts of my training were around 48 miles. This is crap compared to what I did years ago.........

..........and I ran a PR.


In general, shoot for a 5-10% increase each week, and expect it to peter off. That gets you to what ever mileage it gets you to.

If training for a marathon, you'll probably have to follow my "ultra long run" plan, which has you running extra mileage on your long runs every 2-3 weeks to get in the necessary distance for your long runs. For example, if you build up to 3.5 : 7 : 10.5, you really won't be getting in the key long workouts that you'll need. Every 2-3 weeks, you'll want to bump up that long run by 2-3 miles. So one week you may go 3.5:7:10.5, and the next you may go 3.5:7:13.....and then take the next 2 days easier...maybe 2 and 4 instead of 3.5 and 7. The next week you go back to your 10.5-11 mile long run, and then come back with a 14 or 15 miler the following week.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Good stuff so instead of laying out an entire mileage plan right now I should find decide on a format I want to follow (days of the week to be running and what days will be the long/med/short) and then determine mileage as my body allows.

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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Barry,

I wanted to bring this thread back because I am in month 4 of this plan. I had to take a small 2-week break due to an unrelated injury.

I have never in my life felt better running.

I'm running 25:50:75 right now. I won't be increasing until after next week due work related stress and otehr issues...but my overall run fitness is incredible compared to my running history I can't believe it. through this plan I've hit the bike pretty hard as well and this hasn't been a problem.

I plan to bump myself up to 30:60:90 by the end of April/early May and then slowly add some threshold work...but I can tell you I am already significantly faster that I have ever been with only doing base work.

Thanks to you and those who helped put this together. It has been a HUGE help.
(hopefully I won't go hurt myself now that I've said this)

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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [BeachboyWI] [ In reply to ]
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+1 My wife (55) decided last Sept to run the Wrightville Beach Half (last weekend). She has run for 32 years, but always followed the old 3x per wk schedule. We layed out a training program based on Barry's principles running 5-6 times each week. Her fastest half time had been around 2:30.

Fast forward to last weekend: 2:08:43, 252/723 overall and 3rd in the 55-59 AG.

Many thanks Barry!!!!

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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [mtnvet] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah...i didn't want to post times because I can only guess based on the course I run by my house this winter as I haven't done any races this winter.

last season w/out this program I managed
5k sprint tri - 7:10 pace.
10k oly tri - 7:45 pace.

I'd be willing to bet right now that I could hold 6:30's on that sprint course and possibly 6:50's for the Oly.

last season I'd go out and run...typical pace was 9-9:15's. I'd do some under that, but that was what my natural easy pace felt like.
Today an easy afternoon pace is around 8:10 - 8:20 or so. Occassionally I'll surprise myself by doing a 7:50.
During my long run (1:15) I was holding 8:20's as an easy pace and didn't start to get tight until the hour mark.

It's great. I don't even know how to handle this because I really look forward to running now. It's pain free, it's enjoyable, and it's faster, I dont' hurt after my runs!! And now I'm seeing results at the same time. And I haven't even begun to do any of the threshold work.

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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [BeachboyWI] [ In reply to ]
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yay! : ^ )

If only my running was going so well right now. I might have to start the BarryP plan soon. ; ^ )

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Great plan! I have been doing your plan since you posted this (minus some specific tri training for Cali 70.3) and I feel stronger with more miles than I have ever felt. I will NOT deviate (very much) from the plan for my next 16 weeks to my Ironman race. It is difficult to fit "your plan" in with ironman training (probably more because of my schedule than "the plan".
Thanks much. Many of my friends have asked how I am getting miles in w/o injury. I explain your plan!

Team Zoot/Canyon So Cal
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [Karl] [ In reply to ]
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This may be a silly question (and the answer may be in one of the posts) but how do you decide where to start? As an example, I ran my last Half IM at a 9:30 pace while training to a maximum of 12-15 miles per week. Now I'd like to start training for a full IM in Sept 2011. Can someone help me put a training program together?

Thanks,
Andrew
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [BeachboyWI] [ In reply to ]
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[I'm running 25:50:75 right now. I won't be increasing until after next week due work related stress and otehr issues...but my overall run fitness is incredible compared to my running history I can't believe it. through this plan I've hit the bike pretty hard as well and this hasn't been a problem.]

I've been planning on starting this program for a while. I'm currently running 3-31/2 hours a week (3 runs a week) and was wondering how or where to fit the bike in. My next race is Ca 70.3 April 4. When you say "hit the bike pretty hard", can you give examples? Where your rides on the easy days? Thanks for the help...

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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [rvt210] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
[I'm running 25:50:75 right now. I won't be increasing until after next week due work related stress and otehr issues...but my overall run fitness is incredible compared to my running history I can't believe it. through this plan I've hit the bike pretty hard as well and this hasn't been a problem.]

I've been planning on starting this program for a while. I'm currently running 3-31/2 hours a week (3 runs a week) and was wondering how or where to fit the bike in. My next race is Ca 70.3 April 4. When you say "hit the bike pretty hard", can you give examples? Where your rides on the easy days? Thanks for the help...


That's actaully a pretty old thread. But the workouts are pretty simple.
During the season I did the following.
3 swims per week. All in the mornings.
5-6 runs. As my biking increased I did dial my run back a notch. Simply too tired.
3-4 rides.

Often times I would do a run immediately after a ride as a transition run.

I did find I struggled to maintain it all. Often my long rides were too intense and caused problems with my runs. So it comes down to learning how to properly balance. Unless you like being injured.
Having said all that, I am going with Endurance Nation this off season.

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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [scutter] [ In reply to ]
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Barry P is the guy to ask, but I will give you a good guess. Take your longest run for the last few weeks and divide it into thirds. Pacing is what is comfortable that can maintain for 6 days a week. I would guess that 9 minute pace might be a good starting place based on your 9:30 in a half IM.
If your long run is 60 minutes, you might do a 20 min run Monday, 40 Tuesday, 20 Wed., 60 Thurs, 20 Fri and 40 Saturday. Sunday off (or another easy 20). Maintain that for a couple weeks and then add 5-10 % (go to runs of 22 min, 44, and 66).
I do my long bike on Saturday so during the race seaon I plan my long run for Sunday and Saturday is a brick with short easy run after my long bike. I need to work on running on tired legs.
Others really like to split their long bike and long run up and put their long run in the middle of the week. If you want a faster stronger run this makes sense. I do this in the off season and it makes more sense to me IF you have the time.
Barry's program has worked very well for me. I think if you are a front of the pack guy, you will really want to add the faster day in there too.

Team Zoot/Canyon So Cal
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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I'm bumping this with a request for an article in the Training section. Please?
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [aftereffector] [ In reply to ]
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been doing this program for awhile now with very few short breaks, going for my first marathon in March so its time to get cracking again.

Barry did you forget about me bro? lol.
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Barry, thanks for all your running advice. As a new triathlete (I am training for my first race this spring) I have searched and read all your posts, and have implemented your plan for beginners. I am completing week two tomorrow, and feel great. Running in the cold northeast winter wind is not the most fun, but I figure if I tough it out now, my first race should seem a lot easier!
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Would you mind clarifying a little bit on what a "typical" weekly schedule might look like?

Specifically, how many short/medium/long runs should there be in a given week? Should it look like:

3, 6, 9, 3, 6, 9, rest

or

3, 3, 6, 3, 3, 9 rest?

Thanks.
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [joonjoon] [ In reply to ]
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The 3's are recovery runs, so place them when you need to recover. For me a good week would lay out as:

Mo, Tu, We, Th, Fr, Sa, Su
6, 3, 9, 3, off, 6, 3

(with biking on Tu, Th, Sa, & Su)
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [JoeB] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks so much for this. Excellent.
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [joonjoon] [ In reply to ]
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You run exactly one long run.
1-2 medium runs (preferably 2)
The rest are short runs, ideally covering 6 days total (up to 7 for some, at least 5).

So 3:6:9 would look like this:


3, 6, 3, 6, 3, 0, 9

or you can move the 0:

3, 6, 3, 6, 3, 9, 0

Basically you want to put the mediums/long back to back. So in between the medium and long runsshould either be short runs or a day off.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the clarification Barry. What're your thoughts on when to take the rest day? Before or after the long run?
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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thanks Barry.. simple in nature, but has the most important element of all - consistency.
I have just started using your 1,2,3 approach and will stick it..


will be looking forward to reading your "phase 3".


Michael






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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [Auchenberg] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Barry for the plan. It indeed seems to make sense.

However, I wander what would be the right way to incorporate strength training into this program?

I've read many articles claiming that running without strength training weakens the bones and leads to injuries. And that the only way to strengthen the bones is to do some strength training. Would it be better to do it just before/after the run? Or should I run in the morning and strength train in the evening (or other way around)? Should it be done on an easy days?

I was following some structured training plan last year that didn't have any strength training in it and got badly injured about 4 months in. Doctor said to avoid running for the next 6-9months. So as those 9 months are coming to the end I'm trying to find a way to not repeat my previous mistake and incorporate some strength training into running plan.

Does anyone have any suggestions here?

Thanks!
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Re: Run Training - The Program (part 1) [RomanM] [ In reply to ]
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RomanM wrote:
Thanks Barry for the plan. It indeed seems to make sense.

However, I wander what would be the right way to incorporate strength training into this program?

I've read many articles claiming that running without strength training weakens the bones and leads to injuries. And that the only way to strengthen the bones is to do some strength training. Would it be better to do it just before/after the run? Or should I run in the morning and strength train in the evening (or other way around)? Should it be done on an easy days?

I was following some structured training plan last year that didn't have any strength training in it and got badly injured about 4 months in. Doctor said to avoid running for the next 6-9months. So as those 9 months are coming to the end I'm trying to find a way to not repeat my previous mistake and incorporate some strength training into running plan.

Does anyone have any suggestions here?

Thanks!

You registered and waited a year to post this? :p

Search the forums, strength training gets debated ad nauseum every month or so. Plenty of information.

John



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