Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only

Aug 17, 20 10:12

Post #1 of 21 (2047 views)

Problem:

My left foot seems to tend to twist in my shoe such that the pressure while pedaling feels unbalanced.

Background:

I am a long time cyclist. Started exclusively on Tri/TT geometry until 2017. Had a few professional fits done with those geometries. Bought my first road bike in 2017 and set up myself. Upgraded my first road bike to a better one a year later.

Never quite felt dialed in on my fit, so decided to get a professional road bike fit done. I have good faith in the fitter. Detailed measurements carried out and video analysis done from all sides. Several significant changes including lowering and moving saddle rearward, raising handlebars, moving right cleat, adding a 3mm shim under right foot.

Despite all the major changes, I seemed to adapt well to the position, except that my left foot no longer feels balanced on the pedal. My right foot feels rock solid - even pressure across bottom of foot.

I have since revisited the fitter and we tried moving the left cleat around and also putting in footbeds with increased arch support. This didn't help. I have been fiddling with it myself and can't get it any better.

For reference, I have used for a long time 3deg of cleat wedges. I have since experimented with different amounts with no success. Have also tried heel wedges in different configurations, ITS wedge, moving the cleat laterally. Nothing helps.

One thing that may be relevant is that I sit asymmetrically on the bike - my hips are shifted clockwise on my saddle so that my left knee tracks closer to the top tube than my right. This has always been the case since I started riding, even on my TT bikes. None of things I have experimented with since the road bike fit has changed this. As it stands now, for my left foot I notice pressure on my big toe and the outside of my heel that is consistent with the direction my hips seem to rotate on the bike seat.

Suggestions? All other aspects beyond the left foot are good to go.

---------------------------------------------------------

"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

Last edited by: jackattack: Aug 17, 20 10:13

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [jackattack] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 10:57

Post #2 of 21 (2016 views)

I'm no expert...

You say your foot is twisting in the shoe. This indicates to me it's not a cleat issue, otherwise you'd be concerned about your shoe twisting, not your foot.

You've probably tried this already, but could it be that your left foot is simply smaller than your right and your shoe is just 1/2 size too big? Do your shoes have turn locks (or whatever they're called), Velcro or laces? What happens if you put on an extra thick sock or one/two more?

Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 11:05

Post #3 of 21 (2008 views)

I am in the process of buying new shoes, and my left foot is indeed a half size smaller than right. That would be awesome if that was the issue.

I am use the Lake triathlon shoe. I've never been a fan, it has a boa on the back. They've never felt super well conformed to my foot. I've had them for years and somehow changing my position on the bike brought out this issue...

---------------------------------------------------------

"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [jackattack] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 11:54

Post #4 of 21 (1986 views)

The change on the road fitting may simply be a slight difference on how you sit on the saddle. I find on my tri bike I sit much straighter and more "firm" in the saddle (not as much body/hip movement) than on my road bike. Being a little firmer in the tri may have placed the location of your left foot directly in line with your knee/lower leg, thereby not causing any lateral movement (your right foot didn't matter because your shoe fit tighter). A little shifting on the road bike may cause the knee-to-hip line to shift a little which then causes the back of the foot to move or the foot position is no longer on the same line with the knee and your moving your foot to where it feels "natural" to you without you thinking about it - then as your riding it moves back and no longer feels "natural" (thereby creating the cycle of feeling like your foot is slipping).

Like I said, not an expert, just throwing out ideas (which may or may not make logical sense when well thought out).

A sock or two might work at least for testing.

Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [jackattack] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 13:41

Post #5 of 21 (1958 views)

impossible to tell without seeing
please post video from side, front on, and from rear showing pedal movement at reasonable cadence for one minute (each view). Please make sure well lit.
what pedal system, crank length?
also, please provide saddle height and setback from BB
any interesting injuries to the feet/ankles/lower leg? any other injuries to spine or pelvis?
do you drive a lot for work? standard or manual?

Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [ABarnes] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 14:00

Post #6 of 21 (1944 views)

That sounds fun...clarifying, is that of just the foot/leg or an entire view of me?

For other questions for possible future discussion: Speedplay zeros, 172.5 crank. no notable or interesting injuries. Don't drive much at all.

Saddle height: Prefit --> 753mm, post-fit --> 738mm

Saddle setback: Prefit --> 48mm, post-fit --> 41mm

---------------------------------------------------------

"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [jackattack] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 14:51

Post #7 of 21 (1921 views)

A lot of the Lake shoes have a "high volume" fit. That's great if you have taller feet, or need to add orthotics; but can make them hard to get a snug/secure fit otherwise.

You may want to look at shoes with a lower volume fit (ex. sidi, specialized, shimano).

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [jackattack] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 15:05

Post #8 of 21 (1917 views)

Put some tennis shoes/running shoes on and go for a spin. When you remove the constraints of clipless pedals and stiff shoes does the sensation go away. If so, how is your natural placement of the feet on the pedals differ? That can give you an idea of why you feel different and what types of changes you could pursue to feel more balanced

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 15:24

Post #9 of 21 (1909 views)

I can try that.

Come to think of it, I run a different pair of shoes (bigger with more volume) with speedplay syzr pedals on my MTB and don't have the same sensation. Pressure feels even on both feet. I had the fit on that adjusted as well, but to a much smaller degree than the road bike.

I should try the TT bike as well to see how that feels. That uses the same shoe system as my road bike.

---------------------------------------------------------

"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 15:26

Post #10 of 21 (1906 views)

I'm in the process of ordering a semi-custom pair of Bont Vaypor S drilled for speedplay. I think the sizing is going to come back as a half size smaller on the left foot compared to the right. Hopefully that fixes things, but it is at least 8 weeks out.

---------------------------------------------------------

"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [jackattack] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 15:33

Post #11 of 21 (1900 views)

wider q factor on the mtb bike btw. But without the ability to move the cleat laterally as in the Zero system. Longer spindle is an option for Syzr if needed

to clarify in regards Lake 'hi volume', this is true in that they have three different lasts: Sport, Competition, and Race. Sport is actually pretty narrow (nylon soles, no half sizes, less expensive), Competition is the most volume, and Race is more skinny. These are all millimeters in change however.

In my recolletction the tri shoes you speak of are at least ten years old, are on the Compeition last, but there have been some incremental changes in the size chart over the years.

Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [jackattack] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 17:21

Post #12 of 21 (1854 views)

well, if you could do some closeups of that lower leg from the front yes, but a global view is helpful.
also please film in HD or super hi res? can run it thru some slo mo software.

curious to know if post fit, moving saddle forward changed muscle recruitmen on quads? or increased hand pressure.
did fitter change crankarms lengths?

Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [jackattack] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 17:34

Post #13 of 21 (1848 views)

jackattack wrote:

I can try that.

Come to think of it, I run a different pair of shoes (bigger with more volume) with speedplay syzr pedals on my MTB and don't have the same sensation. Pressure feels even on both feet. I had the fit on that adjusted as well, but to a much smaller degree than the road bike.

I should try the TT bike as well to see how that feels. That uses the same shoe system as my road bike.[/quote

True bike fitters may cringe, but I would toss the MTB pedals and shoes one the road bike and see how it feels. If all goes well, you know the problem is fixable and it gives you another set of data points to consider.

My opinion on bike fitting is that it is part art and part science. The real problem is the rider being able to communicate the information to the fitter about what works and what doesn't . If you are comfortable on the MTB shoe/pedal combo a decent fitter should be able to translate that position from the MTB shoe/pedal combo to the road shoe/pedal system. Or at least that is my theory.

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [jackattack] [ In reply to ]

Aug 17, 20 18:58

Post #14 of 21 (1831 views)

How about trying a pedal other than Speedplay.
Many like them- But they don't provide much stability if someone needs that.
I would try SPD SL.

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [ABarnes] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 7:42

Post #15 of 21 (1787 views)

I can record in HD using my iPad pro, but need a holder for it to get it oriented properly to not introduce weird angles. I'll try to get a video in a couple of days and appreciate your willingness to take a look.

Regarding changing recruitment of quads - the positional changes did impact this, and that was actually the main impetus for adjusting the fit. I was burning out my quads on longer threshold efforts compared to other muscles. Since the fit I've gotten better hamstring and glute recruitment. We'll see if that translates into better performance as I start a new training block soon.

Hand pressure did increase, though I am still reasonably comfortable. No change was made in crank arm length.

Riding today it really does seem to me of knee rotation due to over-pronation than sitting asymmetrically on the seat. I did get superfeet footbeds with increased support from my last fit session, but it doesn't do much to fix. I have a pair of custom footbeds made for my ski boots - I just tested and these fit in my cycling shoes so I'm going to try those tomorrow when I ride.

---------------------------------------------------------

"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 7:44

Post #16 of 21 (1785 views)

I could try the MTB shoes / Syzr on the road bike, but thinking about this more it would change the effective seat angle due to different stack heights of the shoes.

Same issue will occur, probably to a larger degree, with putting on standard shoes.

---------------------------------------------------------

"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 7:45

Post #17 of 21 (1783 views)

Speedplays have been the only system that doesn't cause knee pain for me. I've been on Looks and SPD in the past and have a ton of issues.

---------------------------------------------------------

"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 9:25

Post #18 of 21 (1765 views)

bootsie_cat wrote:

How about trying a pedal other than Speedplay.
Many like them- But they don't provide much stability if someone needs that.
I would try SPD SL.

please elaborate more on this statement? stability comes from several factors, but saying that speedplay don't prove much is a stretch

Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [ABarnes] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 9:45

Post #19 of 21 (1760 views)

There is far more rock and slop in Speedplay pedals. Even more when the cleats and pedal bodies begin to wear (which happens pretty quickly).
For riders with unstable feet this can result in an inability to keep the foot stable or even injury for some.

I am not saying that Speedplay pedals are bad- in fact they are quite good. I just think they are for athletes who have a stable pedaling action.

To me, they are like a light running shoe without stability features. Some love them, some can't use them.

The OP describes a foot that he cannot get centered or stable. I believe that a more stable pedal could help with that.

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 11:16

Post #20 of 21 (1741 views)

To clarify, the instability is not coming from the pedal / cleat interface. That is rock solid.

I've been using speed plays for 10+ years - only once did I ever encounter any play at the cleat/pedal junction and it was when I bought a cheap pair of knock-off cleats.

---------------------------------------------------------

"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

Re: Road Bike Fit: Left Foot Issue Only [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 20 11:33

Post #21 of 21 (1734 views)

You are right, some folks are more stable to begin with - they can ride anything!

Would agree that the pedal body can wear, but if they do so "quickly" then there is a greater issue at hand. In one regard the 'wearing' of that surface can be interpreted as a giveaway that something else is wrong! hehehe The opposite view would be that triangular shapped cleat systems will hide the issue as...you don't see the wear. Unless you inspect the upper inside edge of the pedal engagement, you will see grinding away up in there. Pedal wear or cleat wear is an indicator, like a callous is an indicator of poor mechanics in the foot.

Are you also seeing a wear pattern in the baseplate? A not-stiff enough shoe can exacerbate the 'grinding' around the outer edge post Q1 of pedal stroke.

Have seen quite significant divots on base plates, usually on the outer forward edge. The stainless sole proctectors are also a great indicator of pressure and friction like a pedograph.

Have not seen a pedal body wear 'quickly', except for my 230lb sprinter who did so after 5 years. I seem to see pedal body wear on heavier riders, not just high mileage riders. But the combination of the two is killer.

I wonder though, if as you say, the light stability in a running shoe is for stance phase how does this transfer to a cycling shoe interaction...are we somewhat always in swing phase or stance phase when clipped in? (to keep it in running terms). OP complained about the heel fit too, is this a transverse arch issue?

Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com

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