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Rip My Swim Apart Please
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Typically 29-30 min 70.3 swim wetsuit and 30-33 ish non wetsuit conditions dependent.

10 x 100 short course best effort on 10s rest is averaging right around 1:21/1:22 per 100 (so leave on 1:31/1:32)

I've been at this for 10 years now and really have been stuck for a good bit on my swim. I finally got some descent video to take a look at some things and have a few thoughts. I'll reserve those so as not to lead anybody.

Please rip me to shreds. I'm not scared of work.

Also, don't hate on the speedo.

and NO, the beard doesn't impact my swim times. I swear.

Thanks in advance!


Last edited by: T.Skelton3: Jan 27, 20 17:43
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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T.Skelton3 wrote:
Typically 29-30 min 70.3 swim wetsuit and 30-33 ish non wetsuit conditions dependent.

10 x 100 short course best effort on 10s rest is averaging right around 1:21/1:22 per 100 (so leave on 1:31/1:32)

I've been at this for 10 years now and really have been stuck for a good bit on my swim. I finally got some descent video to take a look at some things and have a few thoughts. I'll reserve those so as not to lead anybody.

Please rip me to shreds. I'm not scared of work.

Also, don't hate on the speedo.

and NO, the beard doesn't impact my swim times. I swear.

Thanks in advance!


Lose the beard :-D

The speedo is awesome. Bonus points for style.

You have a big ass hitch at the front of the stroke, so you’re decelerating quite a bit before getting into your next stoke.

Swimming Workout of the Day: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=5784860#5784860;
Favourite Swim Sets: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...m.cgi?;post=5004659;
Unattainable goals for 2019/2020 season. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6944848#p6944848
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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You are faster than me but this is what I see

You bob your head up and down. Does it need to be pushed that far under water when you exhale I wonder

Stroke cadence maybe low for the speed you are swimming?
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks man!

And that’s really what I felt like is the real low hanging fruit. The question is, trying to speed that up without swimming “harder”. Right?

FWIW, I’m 5’8” with 6’ ish wingspan. Maybe some tempo trainer work. I just can’t figure out how to get rid of that hitch and still keep effort in check.
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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I think the cadence / stroke rate is my primary challenge but wanting to make sure I’m not missing anything.

I think the head bob honestly is a result of me trying to muscle each swim stroke to get it started after the hitch/glide/pause.
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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+1 on fixing the hitch.

Point your toes. There's a phase of your kick where your right leg is just hanging there with the ankle at 90^ so the foot is just acting like a brake. Check the video at ~1:57.
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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What Jason said, but it also looks like you are pulling pretty wide which negates a lot of the leverage you have

Imagine pulling yourself out of the pool. Where would your hands be in relation to your body? About the width of your shoulders. Imagine how hard it would be to haul yourself out with your hands way out to the side.

Your catch is good and high elbow is good, but you also decelerate through the push phase. So you are grabbing a big bucket of water but letting it slip away as you pull back. If you google some drills for that it might help.

Strava
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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I'm certainly not a swimming expert so I will put it out for others to comment but the slap when your hand hits the water is pretty loud and you can hear it from a mile away coming down the pool compared to any of the other swimmers. Without above water shot it is hard to tell but is you hand entry too far outreached of your head. Compare the volume to everyone else hand entry swimming down the pool but it shouldn't be that loud IMO and something there requires work.
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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T.Skelton3 wrote:
I think the cadence / stroke rate is my primary challenge but wanting to make sure I’m not missing anything.

I think the head bob honestly is a result of me trying to muscle each swim stroke to get it started after the hitch/glide/pause.

I think you are on the money here. Do you have a tempo trainer? I think it would be worthwhile figuring out your current stroke rate (I could from the video but don't have time at the moment) and look at what you can do to optimise it. Just eyeballing it at the moment it looks slow for you and speeding that up would remove that dead spot (eyeballing it at around 60 spm at the moment). There is a nice chart from swim smooth looking at the optimal range of stroke rates compared to CSS times and 60 spm would be at the low end of this range for you. (http://previous.swimsmooth.com/strokerate_adv.html) (I train with swim smooth and love their methodology so just using their chart as an example)
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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Looking at the video, I do not understand why you do not swim faster!? ;-)

Your times - 1:21/1:22 - is that on 100 meters or yards?

Then, well, look at your thump. Have it closer to your hand.

Last, but not least, maybe you just need to start swimming faster? Do sprints, get your kick frequency up (kicks per stroke; don't know if there is a proper english term?), stroke frequency as well. If you are not doing anyway. But the video seems like you always swim the same pace. Vary your pace in training.

I think that you can be clearly under 30 min., even in just a speedo...



T.Skelton3 wrote:
Typically 29-30 min 70.3 swim wetsuit and 30-33 ish non wetsuit conditions dependent.

10 x 100 short course best effort on 10s rest is averaging right around 1:21/1:22 per 100 (so leave on 1:31/1:32)

I've been at this for 10 years now and really have been stuck for a good bit on my swim. I finally got some descent video to take a look at some things and have a few thoughts. I'll reserve those so as not to lead anybody.

Please rip me to shreds. I'm not scared of work.

Also, don't hate on the speedo.

and NO, the beard doesn't impact my swim times. I swear.

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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Off the wall, you're picking your head up during your breakout stroke, stop that. Keep looking down instead of forward.

A couple things I would recommend:
-try some snorkel swimming, focusing on keeping your head still
-single-arm drill, breathing away from the arm that is pulling (so non-pulling arm is at your side, not out in front). Try to maintain smooth speed throughout the single-arm stroke. This will help you feel where your hitch is, and how to keep your legs kicking steadily to help smooth out your stroke.

Is the video done at your 70.3 pace? If so, some shorter more intense intervals, like 25's or 50's might be helpful. Get used to swimming at a higher output with higher turnover, then slow it down.

-----
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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Swim with a coach and team
Swim more. Swim harder.
Be consistent for a long period of time.
Get in the weight room.

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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Speedos and beards are absolutely legit. Looks overall good to me, other than minor head glitches that others have mentioned. I swim just a bit faster than you, and unfortunately (at least for me) the only way I get faster (and it might be the same case for you), is to do a lot more volume per week.
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Watch the right hand as it enters. (around :59 and 1:53) Wrist is breaking and hand is tilting up. Keep wrist locked during your entry.

Cadence does seem slow. Tempo trainer is good tool. Also try swimming with a band around the ankles. This tends to force you into a quicker cadence to keep from sinking. I personally like to do a few 50's with a band before getting into my main set. Helps remind me what a good cadence should feel like.

I also agree that you should be doing some fast swimming: 25's, 50's, 100's. Plenty of rest. Just work on applying power to your swim with a faster turnover. Find out how fast you can go.
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [sch340] [ In reply to ]
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> Your catch is good and high elbow is good, but you also decelerate through the push phase. So you are grabbing a big bucket of water but letting it slip away as you pull back. If you google some drills for that it might help.

This is the key observation. He has a good looking catch, but there's not much going on during the power phase of the stroke once his hands pass his shoulders. This is a matter of feel for the water and time spent swimming. Try pulling with paddles and some drills with hands closed into fists to try to develop that feeling during the latter 2/3 of the stroke. Both should help develop sensitivity to how much water you're moving with the pull.

Kudos for the flip turn and dolphin kick off the wall (and the speedo).
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [wachman] [ In reply to ]
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wachman wrote:
I also agree that you should be doing some fast swimming: 25's, 50's, 100's. Plenty of rest. Just work on applying power to your swim with a faster turnover. Find out how fast you can go.

THIS.

I have a great main set I like to do:

Repeat 3-4x (1-2 no gear, 3-4 small paddles and/or buoy)
24x25 as 2 easy, 1 FAST (high turnover) on :15 rest
100 all out, 90s rest OR 200 all out, 180s rest.
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [sch340] [ In reply to ]
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So what’s interesting is, I don’t ever feel like I engage my lats to have the strength to push back hard

Last nights swim I did some pulling with paddles and focused on not over reaching, getting into my catch sooner

By decreasing my reach, I noticed i felt tension in my lats VERY early in my stroke and that allowed me to keep pressure on the water better through the pull.

I think I overreach and in doing make engaging the bigger muscles a real challenge.
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [motorcity] [ In reply to ]
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I appreciate it

Those are 100 short course yard times

I do have one swim a week that usually focuses on sprints
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [Optimal_Adrian] [ In reply to ]
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I do hard 25s and 50s but I can’t seem to do a 50 faster than 37 seconds. I’m pretty sure I’m still swimming with a dead spot

I’ll work on the one are drill with a snorkel and opposite arm to the side and then transition to no snorkel to focus on finding the hitch

I really think it comes from just over reaching the entry and extension
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [SnappingT] [ In reply to ]
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SnappingT wrote:
Swim with a coach and team
Swim more. Swim harder.
Be consistent for a long period of time.
Get in the weight room.

My schedule doesn’t allow to swim with a team. I’ll push myself plenty hard. I don’t need that environment.

Today will be 6 days of swimming in a row

I’ve swam for 10 years

I strength training 2-3 days a week

Thanks
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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My two cents:

Lots very right about this stroke, but the one thing everyone picked up on is the cadence.

I used to be a bit of a glider like you. But then a swim coach told me to fit my stroke around my breathing rate at effort and not the other way around. That clicked for me. So now when I'm swimming tempo or hard I roll my stroke around my breathing and I've netted out around 72 ish. I think I could still go a bit faster, something I'm working on.

You could do with keeping your head stiller when not breathing, your head tends to follow your right hand, it should be locked and the body rotates around the head. Snorkel sets will help.

And the right hand sometimes comes in palm facing forward and then sweeps out. So you could just watch that entry just before you turn to breathe left. Finger tips down, start getting the elbow on top and then breathe.

But all in all, I think it's super clean. Not too much wrong with the legs to me. Of course we can always improve our kick... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgb2Li5AH7M
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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I can tell from the way you’re moving in the video that you swim alone. I understand everyone can only do what their schedule allows.

By swimming alone, you’re leaving on the table around 10-20% of the improvement you could get versus if you were swimming with a team.

The other reason a team with a coach on the deck is important is for the feedback from the coach. The small technical changes that need to happen are only going to happen from a coach on the deck giving you consistent stroke corrections and coaching on a daily/weekly basis.

If you are swimming 6 days a week, the next thing you’d want to look at would be what you are doing in those workouts. From experience, not all swimming workouts are created equal especially in the triathlon community.

Hope this helps

Tim

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [SnappingT] [ In reply to ]
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For sure. Appreciate the feedback.

I think I definitely need a higher % of my swims spent on hard 25-50s. Too many long sets even on quality swims. Lots of tempo and likely not enough short stuff pushing maximum speed.

Big set of 25s today as 25 ez, 25 max. I can tell some of the limiting speed is likely neuromuscular from not having the faster speed from doing lots of aerobic / threshold work.
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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Welcome. You can check out what we did in the first week of the camp I just put on. I wouldn’t do it exactly as written, but it should give you an idea. We had drops of 10 seconds or more per 100 after the 2 weeks. http://magnoliamasters.com/swim-efficiency/[/url]

Tim

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
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Re: Rip My Swim Apart Please [T.Skelton3] [ In reply to ]
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T.Skelton3 wrote:
For sure. Appreciate the feedback.

I think I definitely need a higher % of my swims spent on hard 25-50s. Too many long sets even on quality swims. Lots of tempo and likely not enough short stuff pushing maximum speed.

Big set of 25s today as 25 ez, 25 max. I can tell some of the limiting speed is likely neuromuscular from not having the faster speed from doing lots of aerobic / threshold work.

I swam with a ~10 member masters team for four years; each year we went to the YMCA Masters Nationals. The second year, we switched a lot of our sets from 100s/150s/200s to 50s/75s/100s. To a man, our times at Nats got worse. We switched back the next year, and our times all improved from then on.

This despite the fact that I was the only one who swam 200 or 500 (other than one other guy who did 200IM). I think my progression in the 200scy free year-over-year was 2:02 (prior to joining the team), 1:57, 1:58, 1:54, 1:53 the last year.

YMMV.

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