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Riding steep at 79-80 Deg
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i am wondering if riding steep at 79-80 deg would cause any knee pain issue? To the IM bike gurus, would u recommend riding at such steep STA? pros and cons?
thanx in advance.
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [GO] [ In reply to ]
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I prefer to ride at 80 degrees. No issues here. Mainly race HIM with one IM a year.
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [applenutt] [ In reply to ]
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i think Aegis Zaero is the only bike that has a 80 STA frame. What bike r u riding? I assume u have to slide ur saddle forward to achieve that STA if u r not on the Zaero.
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [GO] [ In reply to ]
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My frame STA is just barely under 79 degrees, and I computed my effective STA at just over 81 degrees. No knee issues at all.

Okay, to be totally honest, that's measured 14 cm behind the saddle nose. I have no idea what my actual "riding" effective STA is. Probably close to 84.

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Last edited by: brider: Apr 2, 08 20:04
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [GO] [ In reply to ]
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P3C, arione saddle in the front position all the way forward. Love it.
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [GO] [ In reply to ]
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No issues if saddle height is correct. I have ridden at approx 82 for many years. So do many pros. Zabriske TT's at 84-85. BTW some Felt sizes have an 80 or 81 effective seat angle. Note effective: a 78 deg frame can easily be ridden at 82 by jamming the saddle all the forward and/or sliding forward on the saddle.


TK
ttbikefit.com
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [GO] [ In reply to ]
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That Aegis is intriguing. I'll have to lay out the frame on my CAD machine at work, but it seems like with the 39 cm chainstays, it'd need a REALLY long front center to get the "balanced" geometry they say they get.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [GO] [ In reply to ]
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I scootch forward and can get to 84.5 effecitve STA. I love riding out there. A lot more power... for me at least.

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [brider] [ In reply to ]
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Brider

u r absolutely correct. I had a chat with cyclenutz as well. The front center of the Zaero is relatively long compared to other bikes.
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Mark..how is it going? U back in Boulder? when is ur first official pro race? :)
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [GO] [ In reply to ]
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I purchased a Titianflex in part to be able to try out a wide range of STA- ended up choosing an effective STA of 85- best for me for power, and running off the bike- and no knee pain issues.
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [LifeguardSteve] [ In reply to ]
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How and the heck did you get to 85degress with your TF, did you cut the boom? I have mine maybe at 78 and am damn near riding on the front wheel. I start getting pretty twitchy at that point. I am asking because I love my TF but just cant get it steep enough for my liking and have any kind of handling.
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [GO] [ In reply to ]
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It won't make a difference as knee pain is generally a function of seat height or cleat position.

I will be a voice of descent against the steep positon as I rode that way for five years and always had crotch or neck pain at anything more than a 40 kms distance despite two tri bikes and all the fitting available (FIST included). The big disadvantage of the steep position is that it puts more pressure on your crotch and forces you to hold your neck in more extension. Some people find this quite uncomfortable. I got rid of my tri bikes and now ride a Kestrel Talon at I'm guessing about 77 degrees max in the forward post position. For me at least a little bit slacker and a little higher in the front has translated into a lot more comfort and even slightly faster bike splits.

The people that are claiming to be riding at 84/85 degrees are incorrect. The typical tri bike has a fixed seatpost of 78 degrees. The saddle allows only a few cm of adjustment in either direction from center of the seat railing. This will not give then an extra 6 or 7 forward degrees. Do the geometry calculations if you can still remember high school math and you'll see.

They may claim to be riding that steep at the tip of their saddle but that is not an accurate way to measure seat angle, particularly since nobody rides on one saddle point position at all times. Under power there is a tendency a rider to pull the body forward on the aero bars such as you see on 20/40 kms TT's, hence the saddle tip riding. Roadies do the same when sprinting. Not many IM will sit comfortably on the saddle tip for 118 miles however.
Last edited by: cerveloguy: Apr 3, 08 9:00
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [GO] [ In reply to ]
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Still out in Cali currently. Sleeping out of the car as I can't find a place to live in San Luis Obispo. Want to stay here for 5 more weeks... the training is good here but will be heading home if I cannot find something cheap shortly. Wildflower or Disney will be the debut. Where you at?

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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"Sleeping out of the car as I can't find a place to live "

Oh man. Five more weeks sleeping in a car? Are you a pro triathlete by chance? :-)
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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yes... but it wasn't supposed to have been this way... had a couple of homestays back out. willing to rent but even that has been hard to come by... no one wants to lease a place for 5 weeks. Ugh!

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [jtang] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
How and the heck did you get to 85degress with your TF, did you cut the boom? I have mine maybe at 78 and am damn near riding on the front wheel. I start getting pretty twitchy at that point. I am asking because I love my TF but just cant get it steep enough for my liking and have any kind of handling.
It may have to do with which type and size frame Titanflex that you have. Mine is the Terminator in the Large size. I'm only 5'8", but I knew I wanted to push that beam most/ or all the way in and achieve a very steep angle- so although the Medium size would have been more apt under normal circumstances, I choose to size up in order to go steep and not be as far over the front wheel as I would have been with a medium.

As you can see in the picture below, with the beam all the way in on the Large you achieve 81 degrees, and once you slide the saddle all the way forward on it's rails ( I use the Sella SMP Evolution ) the effective angle is 85 degrees.

As far as it being twitchy all I can say is that for TT type riding I don't find it an issue. Just plenty of hours on the road to get comfortable with it's handling characteristics.

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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:


The people that are claiming to be riding at 84/85 degrees are incorrect. The typical tri bike has a fixed seatpost of 78 degrees. The saddle allows only a few cm of adjustment in either direction from center of the seat railing. This will not give then an extra 6 or 7 forward degrees. Do the geometry calculations if you can still remember high school math and you'll see.
Well there is a nice generalization :-). My bike has no fixed seat post. My bike is not a typical tri bike :-). My bike has a 81 degree seat angle. My saddle allows for 4 degrees of forward movement. Do the geometry calculations if you can still remember high school math and you'll see. :-)
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [LifeguardSteve] [ In reply to ]
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OK, you caught me out. I can see it in your case, or on any other beam bike that you can get further forward than with a fixed 78 degree seat post.

However - have you actually measured your seat position accurately? I'd also worry about handling characteristics once you get beyond the 80ish seat position.
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Re: Riding steep at 79-80 Deg [GO] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Brider

u r absolutely correct. I had a chat with cyclenutz as well. The front center of the Zaero is relatively long compared to other bikes.
Well, I just laid it out... The M/L frame with the 76 cm standover gives me the same stack and reach as my current frame (which is acctually a little too high, as I'm using a 35 degree downward angled stem), and pretty much the same front center, but with chainstays that are fully 2 cm longer. I'm already running with 55% of my weight on my front wheel (most people would say "big deal", but to me it makes no sense to spend that kind of $$ on a frame that will go in the wrong direction geometry-wise), so throwing the rear wheel back another 2 cm only makes that worse. If they'd used 650 wheels instead, they could have nicely snugged-in that rear wheel and made a better-balanced frame. *sigh*

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/
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