"but says he did it alone"

Hmmm...so the omerta remains in force...

Do you feel that no rider in cycling dopes on his own?

You mean like he developed the epo in his basement?

I feel that this rider did not.

His fricken roommate was Piepoli. You think this was a solo effort?

Part of me wants to be a smartass in return, but I will take the high road and simply say: No, like he did the doping by himself and not within a team setup or with a group of riders.

Does that mean he doped without the knowledge of the team management, without being told to by team management, that he wasn't facilitated by any other riders on the team, that any other riders on the team weren't facilitated by him? I find that a little hard to believe.

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If you've ever seen how most riders (that is everyone but Lance pretty much) travel during the Tour, you'd be tempted to think that it seems very unlikely that you can dope without others knowing...specially with EPO and other injectable drugs that need to be kept at lower temperatures etc.

I don't know I just started to follow cycling last july 5. ;-)

That's ok, I was just trying to prove a point....

He had to get it somewhere. One of the most recognizable cyclists in Italy doesn't don a fake mustache and walk into a pharmacy and ask for epo or go online and drop a credit card to an online Chinese pharmacy and then dopes under his own supervision.

Unless you think he does ;^)

1) You would be surprised how much these riders are alone.

2) Why bring up Lance? Is he the only rider who did not always take the team bus or do we not count people like...oh, say Cadel this year?

I was not aware of Cadel not in the team bus this year. Don't take it as an attack on Lance....

Except your point has nothing to do with the implication of the post I responded too. Do you think that pro athletes in other sports don't have buddies who get them PED's without team knowledge?

Not aware? I guess you really did not follow the Tour this year since it was discussed in threads here and on the TV broadcasts. I guess it's easy to assume it is an attack on Lance since any time doping is mentioned on this forum and others someone attacks Lance, and though I beleive I remember you being one who does it, I will give you the benefit of the doubt in this case.

So kind of you...
As I said, I followed the tour. I didn't care so much for where Cadel sleeps, what vehicle he is in, or the colour of his underwear. Reason I brought up Lance was because a couple of times he was dropped off in a helicopter.
As for Lance and doping...yeah...I believe he is been consistently kicking the asses of all the dopers for 7yrs straight, winning by 7 to 10min, and the reason his teammates can't hammer ahead of the climbers is simply because they're not as motivated since he left...

You obviously didn't get the memo that Lance lost 20 pounds. I'm still wating for the memo that says "Oh by the way, Hincapie and Popovych have gained 20 pounds..."

That would explain a lot ;^)

Hmm...now, aren't you being a tad sarcastic?

Oh, so it was an attack on Lance and you are one of those guys still obsessed with hate for him. Thanks for confirming this. I'll make sure to ignore any cycling posts by you since I will already know what the agenda will be.

Possible...but even if he acted alone, he found his epo supplier somehow...most likely through another rider... And the doctors/pharmacists who will act in this manner aren't on every streetcorner.

Its like at the local gym...ask the question of the right people (fellow lifters being the most likely group) and you'll find out who the local 'roid merchant is.

Bottom line for me...a 24 year old pro cyclist doesn't develop his own doping apparatus...he plugged into SOMETHING already in existence...or WAS PLUGGED IN by some entity...

Hardly hate...I still believe he was the best Tour rider and by far for the past 7yrs of his reign...But I certainly don't believe that he was any cleaner than the rest of the top 10, most of which is not racing because of doping suspensions and the likes...Your problem if you want to be naive.

Maybe he learnt how to do subcutaneous injections online?

My understanding is that CERA, the new form of EPO that Ricco and Pieopli were busted for, persists for much longer in the body than the original stuff. CERA=Continuous Erithropotin Receptor Activator, if memory serves. So they could have done a course of it before the tour, on their own, and felt the effects throughout the tour. Hence the argument that it's hard to keep doping private due to proximity to teammates during the tour is moot.

The fact that Mauro Gianetti is the team DS is a bit troubling though. That guy is as closely associated with institutionalized doping as anyone in cycling. There's this hope that the "new generation" will have a different outlook, but when they're being instructed by the same coaches and sogneurs as before, it's hard to really see it as a "new generation" at all.

"cleaner than the rest of the top 10, most of which is not racing because of doping suspensions and the likes"

Oh...now you're just grasping at straws, Francois. Really now. Its common knowlege that he never tested positive without exemption...



oh...



wait...there was that one time....at band camp....



;-)

Would it be impossible for him to know some ex-pros or some lower level pros or even athletes in other sports (you know, the ones where doping doesn't happen and when it does the media ignores it as much as they can)? My point was that the second post implied that it was a fact that Ricco was covering for others in the top level of cycling and that he did not do it alone when it is very possible that he did.

If I was being sarcastic I would've asked Condor if it's hard to walk the high road when his head is buried in the sand.

I used to think that way and I still have mixed feelings about Lance, being a cancer survivor and all. My coach was teammates with Lance and they hated each other, and he used to protect me by not "telling stories" at the dinner table. He was lucky enough to move from the bitterness of having to race in that era to being content that he can look himself in the mirror and his family in the eyes knowing he made the right decision. He still wonders though, having lost the Gold Medal in the Points race to a very strong Italian riding for Team Polti.

For me, sometimes I wonder if ignorance was bliss. But I understand why people like Walsh feel the need to fight for the athletes who are racing at a huge disadvantage because they are doing the right thing. Or should I say, cyclists who are "trying to destroy cycling."