"50 seconds per mile"

Do you mean to suggest you were 50 seconds per mile faster wearing Newtons as compared to other shoes?

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

so what would happen if you were to wear your other running shoes tomorrow, you'd go 50 seconds per mile slower? Then switch back to your new shoes for the day after that, and speed up again by the same 50 seconds per mile?

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

"It is hard to measure my faster track workouts as they change up so much and as I have introduced many changes in the last five months or so (powercranks, altitude, etc.)"

What is hard to measure about going to the track right now and doing 6x800M alternating shoes each one and measuring your HR and time for each?

Until you do that, it is just a perceived improvement as far as I'm concerned, as my zone 2 pace can vary considerably given the conditions.

Or, you could wear a Newton shoe on the left foot and a Nike on the right. If you consistently find yourself turning right, you will know the Newtons are faster.

Just for the record Learn, I don't doubt your findings, I would like to hear more. Now I really want to run in these things....

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

"Or, you could wear a Newton shoe on the left foot and a Nike on the right. If you consistently find yourself turning right, you will know the Newtons are faster."

I say go for this trick and put it on youtube!

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

You should wear the Newton on the right foot and normal shoe on the left at the track. Then you could run the corners much easier.

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Mike

What's hard about doing 6x800 is that if I am going at 100% they will decrease in speed quickly. Heart rate will also drift if I try to control for that.

What's hard about doing any track workout to test them is that testing on the track (doing the same things on different days) doesn't work well because I'm not changing my scheduele just for the test.

I had no intention of testing anything. But I just noticed this big boost in my LSD run pace since I switched to the shoes.

I will have side-by-side 10ks in a month or so but it's hard to control that too as I will be about 10 lbs lighter in the Newton race and in better shape.

Here's the best idea: order the shoes and run a test you can believe in. If it proves to be worth the money, keep them. If not, send them back and get your money returned.

In retrospect, I guess I should be surprised I got even one non-dismissive or non-smartypants response at all.

It's a no risk proposition. Get them, test them. Then either keep them or return them for a full refund. Worse case scenario you pay postage and keep the hat and socks.

I don't have any detailed "controlled" experimental data yet but NO DOUBT I'm faster with my Newtons at the same HR. More so--I felt it 100 yards into my first run and I've felt it for all of the 20 miles I have so far.

I am a notorious heel striker so maybe good runners won't get this but so far I'm a believer!

rc

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Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

I call shenanigans.

"What's hard about doing 6x800 is that if I am going at 100% they will decrease in speed quickly. Heart rate will also drift if I try to control for that."

That is why I suggested alternating. If one pair of shoes is 25 seconds/800 m faster, it should be pretty apparent.

I understand from your posts that you really want these shoes to make you faster, so I guess it makes sense that you wouldn't want to rely
on anything other than your perceptions.

I'm not sure I understand that. Up to this post, I counted only two smartass comments, and one of them was the last line of a post that was primarily constructive. The remainder of the posts have been constructive.

I think your results, while interesting, are insufficient to draw any conclusions. You'd need to switch back and forth from the shoes with multiple tests to even begin to get a picture of whether there's a notable difference.

The worse case scenario is that you end up like the vast majority of people who purchase returnable items and are not satisfied -- you still never get around to returning them because it's not just postage, it's a hassle.

This really isn't a smartass answer, but if you're running 9min/mi or even 8min/mi, I don't see how a professional coach could say that your cadence and stride are great unless you have a Vo2max of 30.

Again, Why aren't professional marathoner's using them? Or Any runners which aren't triathletes?

I completely agree.... there ia absolutly nothing to lose? 5 bucks in postage.

I did order a pair.... I currently have 3 videos of my running techique and stride, still need 1 more

1 uphill
1 downhill
1 30 min run
1 40 minutes into a brick

I'll get the same footage with the newtons....

maybe i'll see some change.... maybe not.
I'm not going to even bother posting times or techique or whatever crap.... I have bad form, I've run a sub 1:29 half marathon, if they make me feel better! Yay... I win. That dosen't mean anything for anyone elses performance changes.

I'll post the videos and people can have at them.

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"Pace is just a matter of having enough RedBull..." -Rappstar

Because no serious marathoner would ever wear a 9 oz shoe.

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"Pace is just a matter of having enough RedBull..." -Rappstar

WOW, between this running shoes and Frank’s PC I should be able to cut 2 min off my marathon pace! I’ll order both ASAP and start registering at major marathons to work on my retirement fund...

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Jorge Martinez
Head Coach - Sports Science
E3 Training Solutions, LLC
@CoachJorgeM

Frank says 1-2 min off your pace....so you could get almost 3 min off now!

Holy crap, if I got those 3 min per mile, and somehow got another 1-2 on top of that, I'd ALMOST be good enough to finish in the top 50%!!

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

You really think you get more than 50 sec. per mile from lighter shoes?

<quote> Or, you could wear a Newton shoe on the left foot and a Nike on the right. If you consistently find yourself turning right, you will know the Newtons are faster.
</quote>

LMAO, this is the funniest thing I read today, are you gonna file a patent ? "Process and technologies for empirical performance comparison between different running shoes"

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"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative." Oscar Wilde

NO!

I VERY MUCH SO A SHOE WILL IMPROVE MY RUN THAT MUCH!
(if it does, $155 for a shoe will do more than $2k for wheels!)

However, The claim here is that the shoe will make you more aware of how your foot impacts the ground. If I can become more efficient, i don't care what the save me... they then may help with my mechanics and good form is what i want to adopt.

If they do nothing for me... whatever, I'll go back to my DS trainers, and all will be well.

People should just keep in mind that technology is always trying to make things better.... sometimes it does, sometimes... well you know. Newton comes along and introduces something new.... why not try it? Running tech has come pretty far, when it comes to materials ect, occasionally there may be a real change. Maybe it's the next BioSpace. If postage is all i'm out, then I have no problems trying it. Especally when it's a company that's putting money into the sport I love.

Hell, how many people are swimming in T1s? There's something strange as hell.... but people try it.... it's different, and IT WORKS! That's why companies like DeSoto have a great following. Make good items, think outside the box when making products, and give back to the sport and it's racers. If Newton backs up even 1/5th of their claim (which dosen't promise a 50 sec faster split) they'll have a following too.

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"Pace is just a matter of having enough RedBull..." -Rappstar

My question is .... what if you are already a decent mid-foot striker? Are they suggesting it will benefit you then? I've got a pretty good form and strike, so I find it hard to beleive that the shoe alone would make that much of a difference. Of course without trying them I guess I wouldn't know.

But shoes are like frames ....... some just suit different people's style better. I am not a proponent of "forcing" someone to do something drastically different. Look at some of the top runners. Some have arms flailing, some are compact and tight with their arms. What one might call unorthodox works perfectly well for the other.

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Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib

I think maybe one was midly constructive asking for more tests. I responded saying I would have a better 10k test soon.

But my post at least has some semblence of evidence behind it unlike yours which is based on a false assumption.

I have returned five pairs of sneakers to Nike's online store in the last four months, many stained with blood. Each shoe cost me maybe $2 in postage to return. I also held off buying the Newtons until I got this guarantee.

I also said I would have another 10k test soon as I did one last weekend and will have another in a few weeks.

No, it's not as smartass answer, it's a dumbass answer. These are long slow easy runs in zone two. My track workouts (repeats, ladders, fartlek) are closer to 5. Yeah, I'm probably never going to Kona and am pretty happy when I get top 10% of my AG, but I do actually have a near model stride and cadence of 90.