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Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming)
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Hi there,

I'm an engineering student looking at doing a triathlon related capstone project, and I'm looking at doing a project that would automatically count the number of laps you've swum in the pool.

Considering that there are already watches that can do this, I'm looking at creating a solution that you don't have to wear on your wrist.

From a fundamental functionality standpoint there are two things my solution must do:
  • Count laps and record time for each lap
  • Display lap count and lap timing information to the swimmer

So far I've come up with an idea that uses the proximity functionality of Bluetooth

This involves a Bluetooth chip that would replace the plastic adjustment piece for your goggle straps. The Bluetooth chip would be similar to a 'Tile' or 'Trackr' and would be able to transmit how far away it is from the device it is paired to.

The Bluetooth chip would be paired to a display unit (a phone or a waterproof device). The idea is that the user would press a button on the chip to indicate when and where they are starting to swim. This would start a timer on the display unit and send a position reference point from swimmer to the display unit. Whenever the swimmer returns to this reference point, the display unit would increment a counter indicating that they have completed a lap. When the swimmer is done swimming laps and wants to record their time, they could simply press the button on the chip again to tell the display unit to stop the timer.

The main issue with this idea is that Bluetooth does not transmit underwater. So it relies on the Bluetooth chip periodically coming out of the water and pairing with the display unit. I've tried this out with 'Tile' at the pool with a friend looking for it on my phone and it only really worked with my freestyle (not fly, back, or breaststroke).

With this idea I am wondering if this provides much advantage over a watch, or if wearing a watch something that only bothers me?

I'm also wondering if you would be willing to use your phone as the display unit or if you would prefer to spend an extra $40-$80 to use a waterproof display clock that you could put on the pool deck?
Note: your phone could probably sit in your swim bag ~20ft away from the edge of the pool and still be able to count laps, but you would have to pull your phone out of your bag to see any data.

If you have any other idea on how I could count laps I would love to hear those ideas.


I'd also like to hear any thoughts you have on this idea, and what you think could be improved.


Thanks,


Foster



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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [Foster_1998] [ In reply to ]
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What don't you like about a watch? This seems like a lot of complication for something that's already solved. My watch counts laps, has a display I can glance at, underwater, in real time, as I push off the wall, and vibrates every 10 laps if I loose count. Once I get home and it automatically connects to Wi-Fi, and downloads to Garmin Connect, and other data gathering sites, I can see every lap, split, and stroke count I want. It knows what stroke I was using, and records moving, and total time, and gives me my average pace per 100 of all my segments. And probably even more stuff I don't realize. When I swim, I don't even know it's there. Since it's also the device that I use for recording gym time, cycling, indoor and outdoor running, and hiking, as well as road races, trail races, and triathlons, I wouldn't spend money on a separate device just for the pool.

Athlinks / Strava
Last edited by: Dean T: Nov 17, 18 16:46
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [Foster_1998] [ In reply to ]
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Interested.

Of course the pure swimmers will be here to say that all you need is a wall clock. But given that I lose track of laps pretty quickly, time and lap count is still very useful.

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [Foster_1998] [ In reply to ]
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I had the same basic idea a while ago, and thought the same basic idea could apply to running laps at a short indoor track. Obviously without the swim goggles.
I find that the watches I have used do not reliably count my swim, and I have a hard time counting them out. Yesterday I was at a pool that did not have a pace clock, and I think that I swam a mile. If they have a digital pace clock, I have a method to count. Would be interesting if it could be fashioned into a ring, or can you use the ANT+ signal to do it also?
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [Foster_1998] [ In reply to ]
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You might consider adding a low-cost 3-axis magnetometer / accelerometer. (A few dollars for the chip). This lets you use the earth's gravity and the magnetic pole of the earth to estimate a motion vector. Since a swimmer generally changes direction 180, that's a *very* strong signal in the magnetometer data that should be detectable. And since the acceleration due to gravity is very strong, it'll let you know which direction it is to the bottom of the pool. And because a swimmer necessarily comes to a complete stop when changing directions at each end, that should also be a strong signal in the accelerometer data. Because a pool is relatively free of ferrous metal and water represents no interference problem for gravity or magnetic waves, it might improve the quality of the data when used in combination with your Bluetooth idea.

Edit: This is almost certainly what the watches mentioned above do.
Last edited by: trail: Nov 18, 18 6:10
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [Fhirleighinn] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [chriselam] [ In reply to ]
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I have one of those, battery went flat and I never bothered replacing it.
Pace clock works just fine.
If there is no pace clock I have my own I built myself and just sit it at the end of the lane.
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [trail] [ In reply to ]
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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [Foster_1998] [ In reply to ]
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First of all: I am also an engineer and I think it is really cool that you want to combine your passion with your studies!

From the technical standpoint: I think bluetooth is not the best solution in this case as it does not work under water, but it might be good enough for the first approach, but you should approach that problem later on as that approach does not work for all the different styles.

I totally think that this idea works very well for counting laps. However, measuring the exact time of each lap seems to be the big issue here. As stated out before, another sensor might be useful to improve the accuracy. Also, if I get your idea correctly, your device can only measure two laps in a time. So in a 25m pool you can only measure 50m, which is not such a big problem. But if you are in a 50m pool, you can only measure 100m which would be too few for me.

As far as the display is concerned: I would leave the option with the smartphone, but a seperate display should also be offered. Maybe you can buiÄşd some kind of a clock that can be put on the starting block.

A last thought: Enable the user to set the number of laps that shall be measured together. For example, if I want to swim 200m intervals I do not want to see only the 50m split four times in a row, but I want to see the time after 50,100,150 and 200m. The user should be able to configure that.

I wish you all the best with your project!
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [chriselam] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, used a sportcount for a while. Most of the time it worked, but occasionally I would forget to click, or I would miss a click. Lost 1, replaced the battery on another one, and it leaked. Did not replace it after that, as the main pool I was at had a digital pace clock. I can't seem to use my system with an analog clock, just can't quite see it well enough. An automagic system would certainly have a market.
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [realAB] [ In reply to ]
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Would like to see how well it works, looked at the website, will have to search to see if anyone has actually tested. The cost seems high.
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [Fhirleighinn] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like all the testing has been with select athletes (sounds like American / Aussie Olympian/National Team / and some friends of the company). Cost looks lower than Triton wear hardware and no monthly software costs. My hunch that the reason the testing is kept quiet because they are validating it in national / regional training centers that have restricted access. What they are claiming for tracking capabilities has mostly been done by other companies already but not aimed at individual users. They did add heart rate by moving it to the temple area vs Tritonwear being on the back of the head.

I expect delivery pretty soon unless it gets stuck in transit.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [Foster_1998] [ In reply to ]
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I think this concept could be generalized to something like a new ANT+/BTLE sensor profile. Let's call it the "proximity sensor".
All it does is tell your watch/device whenever you are close to it. You would be able to pair your device with a number of such proximity sensors and set up certain actions when it sees a proximity event.
i.e.:
  • automatically take lap (swimming, track running, etc)
  • automatically trigger next phase in multisport workout.
    (for this, race organizers could supply the ANT/BTLE IDs for the location sensors associated with the timing mats, or better: timing companies include these signals in their mats out of the box)

As you mentioned, BTLE could be problematic through water though...

if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!
Last edited by: flogazo: Nov 18, 18 23:52
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [Foster_1998] [ In reply to ]
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Do it if the assignment motivates you. It will be a fun activity.

it's of limited utility as most people can count down from 100 and if you miss a lap who cares. But playing with the tech could be fun

Id rather someone works out how to measure and assess drafting.

Its has rules with technical performance measures which could be engineered and tested, 12 metres 25 seconds making forward progress.

Could provide information back to rider about risk, and issue penalties
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [Foster_1998] [ In reply to ]
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Well as described it sounds like Bluetooth would have to come out of the water to read and may need adjusting straps. As mentioned timing may be a problem too.

Also the display options either are far or need a separate unit. At that point why not add some type of sensor to the under water "wall clocks" that some teams use? Place that at the wall under water and use either optic or sonar to detect the swimmer straight above it at the turn
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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stevie g wrote:
it's of limited utility as most people can count down from 100 and if you miss a lap who cares.

I agree. I just don't see that this is a problem in search of yet another high-tech (and presumably relatively high-cost) solution.

If you want to be a hero to swimmers (and coaches) around the world, figure out how to make a consumer-grade touch pad that's reasonably reliable, portable, and affordable. That would solve your automatic lap counting problem, with the added utility of timing to a level of accuracy that's currently unavailable outside of a competitive event.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [Foster_1998] [ In reply to ]
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In fourth grade, I made a contraption that would sit in the pool like a touchpad. You would set the number of marbles for the number of laps you would to swim, and when the marbles were gone, the bell would “ding” and you’d do your last 50.

"The person on top of the mountain didn't fall there." - unkown

also rule 5
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [realAB] [ In reply to ]
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They lost me at 40% off being $189.

"The person on top of the mountain didn't fall there." - unkown

also rule 5
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Re: Reliable Automated Lap Counting Idea (Swimming) [boobooaboo] [ In reply to ]
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Marlin playtens is a non watch unit that does audio feed of pace and laps
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