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Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/...of-lowlevel-athletes

Should there be anti-doping policing of extremely low-level athletes?

The person at the centre of this was a member of a local surf living saving club and a keen golfer. It seems he was not a 'competitive' athlete and that he was only a member of a sports club.

Should people who don't compete but are members of sports clubs be subject to anti-doping rules?

The case is now going to the Court of Abritration for Sport.

Personally, this seems far too wide to me. Especially if the person does not compete.
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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I don’t even get what he’s a part of that would be tested? Is he just in a golf club? This is moronic from what it sounds like.
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure what grounds they have taking it to CAS, just because he's "recreational" level, unless he's an member of an non-sport that doesn't follow the standards. But if he is, and whether we think it's good idea or not to test or go after that level of athlete, I don't think he's got much of a case....based on the actual regulations.

Whether that level of athlete should be sought after is entirely different discussion. But I dont think he's going to win his case with CAS.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
I'm not sure what grounds they have taking it to CAS, just because he's "recreational" level, unless he's an member of an non-sport that doesn't follow the standards. But if he is, and whether we think it's good idea or not to test or go after that level of athlete, I don't think he's got much of a case....based on the actual regulations.

Whether that level of athlete should be sought after is entirely different discussion. But I dont think he's going to win his case with CAS.

From the article it appears that this guy isn’t even an athlete but a member of a surf life saving club. He got caught up in an online sting of which 28 sanctions are in progress against NZ rugby alone.

This is the national AD bringing it to CAS not the athlete.

Not enough details though.

Maurice
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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Based solely on that article, the national anti-doping agency's approach seems absurd.
They have decided they are entitled to enforce anti-doping rules on anyone who's a member of a club that's signed up with them, regardless of what activities that person is, or is not, taking part in! It hardly seems fair, reasonable or useful, to require everyone to ensure compliance with banned substance lists etc, just for being a club member. Are they trying to put people off casual/social/recreational sport?
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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The dope police: "oh, ignore the huge Olympic and cycling scams........look over here at this poor municipal golf course schmuck instead."
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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So they are banning him from competitions that he never participated in to begin with? I don't understand. Can they force him out of his sports club?

It seems like NFSNZ is just making up rules, not telling anyone about them and going after people who would have no way to know that they are breaking a rule and are not even competitive athletes to begin with. It's nuts.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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If he's not competing, what would they even hit him with?

Strava
Last edited by: gmh39: Apr 4, 19 5:19
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [gmh39] [ In reply to ]
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They have arbitrarily decided that they can enforce anti-doping rules on people, even if they never compete, if they are a member of a club. But they did not announce this rule change, they just started sanctioning people and they want to publicly announce them as drug cheats but so for the tribunal has been able to keep this guy's name secret. But it is not clear to me what the sanction would be if they don't compete?

Maybe they tell the club if he's not kicked out they lose their official status or something? But it's a freaking lifeguard club ffs.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
Based solely on that article, the national anti-doping agency's approach seems absurd.
They have decided they are entitled to enforce anti-doping rules on anyone who's a member of a club that's signed up with them, regardless of what activities that person is, or is not, taking part in! It hardly seems fair, reasonable or useful, to require everyone to ensure compliance with banned substance lists etc, just for being a club member. Are they trying to put people off casual/social/recreational sport?

It sounds like they went after some online steriod dealing guy and found out the list of people he sold too. Because this guy was a "member" he got busted for it.

USAT membership clearly states you must follow WADA/USADA guidelines the moment you become a "member", and yes I know he's a Kiwi, so I'm guessing their membership details are clear like USAT's.


This is imo one of the "collateral" damages that happens now with AG testing/doping. Now pretty much anyone they can go after if they find evidence/reason too. Of course I've said from the beginning be careful what you wanted with AG testing.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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They have arbitrarily decided that they can enforce anti-doping rules on people, even if they never compete, if they are a member of a club.

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That's always been the case. There has never been an distinction between "participant" and "non-participant". It's simply are you a member of WADA supported sport? If yes then you must follow WADA standards.

ETA: Who's to say he can dope to the gills and then show up "clean" in 4 months to compete in an event of whatever sport/club you are choosing. We cool with that?

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Apr 4, 19 6:28
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
They have arbitrarily decided that they can enforce anti-doping rules on people, even if they never compete, if they are a member of a club.

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That's always been the case. There has never been an distinction between "participant" and "non-participant". It's simply are you a member of WADA supported sport? If yes then you must follow WADA standards.

ETA: Who's to say he can dope to the gills and then show up "clean" in 4 months to compete in an event of whatever sport/club you are choosing. We cool with that?

Define member of a WADA supported sport? If I walk out my door sometimes and jog around the block before work, but never enter a race, can a national anti-doping body wake me up at 5 am, take a blood sample and publicize me as a drug cheat because I'm on a heart medication that's banned by WADA?

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Define member of a WADA supported sport? I

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Usual membership is defined by membership of an sport that is supported and follows WADA regulations. Usually means your a *paying* member. USA Cycling I believe has some weird "free" memberships, if I remember correctly. USAT doesn't- you have to pay to be a member, and it's based on you paying, not you being an participant.






If your an USAT member, yes USADA can wake you up at 5am and test you and if you are found to be taking illegal drugs, you can be busted.




If your not an USAT member, USADA aint going to come and test you. Nor will you get sanctioned if your name came on a dirty list.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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ETA: Who's to say he can dope to the gills and then show up "clean" in 4 months to compete in an event of whatever sport/club you are choosing. We cool with that?[/quote]
Who's to say factory worker at Tesla that knows they are going to miss deliveries this quarter won't take that information and trade on it next month? Are we cool with that? Shouldn't we just preemptively arrest him and publicly announce him as an inside trader, just in case?

What about a recreational skier who uses skis that have sidecut greater than that allowed in FIS competitions? Should they be preemptively disqualified from all FIS world championships and the olympics just in case they decide to enter? What about recreational snowboarders who smoke weed? Should they all be announced publicly as sports cheats just in case they decide to become competitive snowboarders?

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Define member of a WADA supported sport? I

---------

Usual membership is defined by membership of an sport that is supported and follows WADA regulations. Usually means your a *paying* member. USA Cycling I believe has some weird "free" memberships, if I remember correctly. USAT doesn't- you have to pay to be a member, and it's based on you paying, not you being an participant.






If your an USAT member, yes USADA can wake you up at 5am and test you and if you are found to be taking illegal drugs, you can be busted.




If your not an USAT member, USADA aint going to come and test you. Nor will you get sanctioned if your name came on a dirty list.

Nowhwere in this story does it say he is a member of a national governing body and that is what gives them jurisdiction. It is his membership in a local surf life-saving club that gives them jurisdiction. They apparently got to decide that themselves - not a WADA regulation.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Except Life Saving is an WADA member.

https://www.wada-ama.org/...ode/code-signatories

Scroll down to AIOWF Members and you'll see it's located there.

ETA: WADA covers far more non-olympic sports than olympic sports because of the limiting nature that Olympic competition is. Scroll to that list and you'll find plenty of "wow didn't know wada covers said sport"-

Orientering
Life Saving
Chess

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Apr 4, 19 6:51
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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But athlete membership in the NGB is not what they are saying gives them the right to sanction him. They specifically say it's his membership in a club.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Yes a membership in a club that is overseen by WADA. Thus they have the jurisdiction to ban all members of WADA sports.

IE- This guy was an idiot for not knowing Life Saving was an WADA sanctioned sport.

ETA: I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue. Again "membership" of a club is all that is needed to be then overseen by WADA. You simply have to be a "member" (how said member is established can be up to the individual sports). So by you continuing to say he's a local member, easily gives the rights to WADA and NGB to then bust said members if they are breaking rules.


So this guy should have either quit his membership or found a sport that doesn't follow WADA code. So that's all the juridisction they need. Again I'm guessing they only busted him because his name was on the list of the steroid user- IE- This was an easy bust.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Apr 4, 19 6:55
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Surf life saving clubs in Auz are basically non profits which operate for the purpose of basically providing lifeguard services etc at local beaches.

They all have bars/pubs and are typically run by volunteers and donations from local businesses. That’s what I remember from having a lot of beers at a few.

If I’m reading this correctly then it would be akin to USADA showing up at your local golf course/private club and start testing people.

On a side note this is going to CAS in order to provide clarity for the NDO. They use terms like “world wide precedent” etc.

Maurice
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Yes a membership in a club that is overseen by WADA. Thus they have the jurisdiction to ban all members of WADA sports.

IE- This guy was an idiot for not knowing Life Saving was an WADA sanctioned sport.

I don't think people who want to get together and participate recreationally in a sport and never compete should have their reputations and possibly careers ruined for "cheating" in a sport they never even competed in. But that's just me.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Last edited by: RowToTri: Apr 4, 19 6:58
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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But it sounds like they didn't really have to do anything to bust him. They found an online steroid dealer, they found the customers he sold to. Simple background check into each person likely meant an easy bust.

So I dont think this was simply an "let's go to the local tri race and bust the cancer mom".

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, for "weight loss". That's the ticket. . . .

EPO- for allergies!

Blood doping- for shin splints!

Course cutting- for safety!
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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And that's fine. But I was answering your question as to how this is possible. Not actual debating the merit of the issue. I was simply showing you how and why this can occur, and how they have juridisction in the first place.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Orientering

Life Saving

Chess



I'd like to see some of those doped-up club chess players get sanctioned.

I'm closer to the feathered end of the spear than the point.
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Re: Recreational sportsman orders steriods for weight loss, case now going to Court of Arbitration for Sport [David_Tris] [ In reply to ]
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http://www.spiegel.de/...candal-a-595819.html

(I only knew of this from ST thread on the subject or chess doping subject just within the last few months)

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Apr 4, 19 7:19
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