Depends. Probably. Probably not. Probably not. Depends on less time near what.

The choices depends on how much you want to invest into studying physiology and experimenting with what works for you

On one end, you get a coach (or subscribe to a training platform such as TrainerRoad) which does most of the work for you. YMMV depending on the coach, but a great coach should be able to do most of the heavy lifting while explaining why they are prescribing the regimen they do.

On the other end, you do your own research. A generally good book is the "Training and Racing with a Power Meter" which can introduce you to the philosophy of sports physiology and stress response. But you'll soon find that the community can be pretty divided on the ideal way to train (likely because the ideal differs somewhat person to person, but also peoples' personal perception and results biases them). And it is actually pretty difficult finding "truth". Do realize though that the arguments are typically which program is best, among ones which are good. So even if you've picked a "good" structured workout that isn't the "best", you'll still end up stronger.

what does this mean

More time near threshold presumably means less time somewhere else

Ah makes sense, I think the wording threw me off

All things being equal, yes more watts = faster on bike.

All things includes position, gear, weather, course.

As for how to improve your power, without knowing your history, how you've been training, what kind of time you want to dedicate to it, it is difficult to give any kind of advice other than, "train better" which I know is unhelpful. The most basic generalized thing I can say is spend a little time riding really hard. Spend a lot of time riding easy. Coaching can help. Personal education can help.

As for gear and position - it's hard to say too much from those photos, but your arms look a bit awkward there, maybe there is some better stability and comfort to be had by some adjustments - would love to see torso-upper arm angle. Narrower pad width has a possibility to improve CdA. Slightly higher hands may improve stability and comfort and maybe aero too. I like to rotate the ends of my extensions toward each other a bit to bring the hands closer together. Hard to see angles well, but it looks like *maybe* you can get lower and more aero, as long as you do not compromise hip angles, etc, but it's not a given and it could make things worse. You might be low enough. I'd need a better photo. Get a good aero helmet.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Nice isoquant.

Thanks Ed. I trained by following a stock plan for all 3 events, although I modified it the 2nd time due to an injury that prevented me from running for multiple weeks. I wanted to follow it religiously just to see how I performed using it and not modify it so it gets all of the credit or the blame. While I am thrilled with how I've done overall (had 11th best bike split/10th best in the run in my age group).

Yet, I know there are things that I want to do differently from this plan which may be smart or stupid. My idea before starting up formally again before my next race was to do almost exactly what you said. Lots of volume and ride with a group of riders near me all of whom will push me and also plenty of time just getting zone 2 miles.

Part of the reason I ask the question is that I wasn't exactly sure how much it mattered (even though I know power matters) because I look at the profiles of other racers and their power is substantially higher than mine but their mph over same course/same day is not. (0.5-1.25 mph - maybe thats substantial I dont know) but maybe that says more about all of those other factors and not as much about their power. (none of them substantially heavier than me either)

Anyhow, thanks all for your insights.

Sure thing. Comparing your power/speed to other racers is tricky. They have different positions, equipment, weight, bike handling skills, application of power vs terrain...

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

I’m actually in a similar position as you and have similar questions. Last race my NP was 210w and my average speed was 23mph.

What I want to know is what is needed to get closer to 25mph (all else being equal). Obviously you can’t only compare power but most other riders I see doing upwards of 25mph are putting out power between 250 and 300w

Something that I struggle with is maintaining power whilst also controlling the bike. I can hold 240-250w pretty comfortably when my bike is on the trainer, but when I take it outside I find to hard to really push and also focus on not crashing. I guess this just takes practice

If you have time, lots of hours at a modest pace will be your "cake". The addition of intervals in the FTP+ to VO2 range will be the "icing" (sparingly, generally once a week or so for race prep).

Riding with a group that pushes you probably isn't the best thing to do on a regular basis... not if you are focused on Tri.

Respectfully disagree. Although (underlining the respectfully) there is perhaps some caveats to that.

The main foundation for me is the all year round Saturday roadie club rides - 100-140km with 1000m to 2500m climbing. Then in the week the structured 1-2hour sessions on the trainer. Swap to the tt bike in the 3 months ahead of race day.

Now does this mean I am the fastest possible I could be on the bike? Not sure, but I am a c5:10hr IM and 2:05 HIM rider on non optimised kit. For me the mental variety that comes from that consistent saturday ride and having people around to push you that little harder on the races to the top of climb, but then also the ability to sit on the front of the group on the flat holding HIM pace power for 5/10mins means I get a great physical workout without mental fatigue.

The challenge was learning to then not race that hard - ie ride conservative and so run well. My Saturday rides would always be above 250wNP. HIM pace is 260w, 230w IM race pace.

Been following this thread, I am very curious about the big discrepancy between your IM and 70.3 bike times. Seems to me someone who can go 2:05 should absolutely be sub 5 on an IM.
Any particular reason for the gap?

Harsh crowd here. ;-)

HIM is a pan flat course essentially along the coast so with decent side wind to get max benefit from deep wheel sail effect. Road condition not too bad as much asphalt and not too much chip seal.

IMNZ bike course isn't a mountain, but enough decent hills to have an effect, especially as I descend like a nanna. Also the road is horrendous chip seal and I'm on an ancient bike that can only fit 23mm tyres (even then I've had a stone stick to the tyre and jam in the frame, thankfully not in a race). Also the goal isn't to win the bike leg, it's to get to the start of the run feeling fairly fresh. 15mins saved on the bike could easily cost an hour or more on the run. 260w down to 230w is the more important thing - I've faith in my coach on that delta. The time then is what it is from that. Discussion with a few suggests a bike swap would get me that 15mins, but there's a certain comfort in taking the exact same bike into transition for a decade, as it would have been if there had been a race this year.

43.2km/hr on 260 is pretty darn optimal. /envy

If you reverse engineer your watts/speed, making a few assumptions, your CDA is probably a bit above average. There is easily speed to gather here. A lot of people really stink here despite spending big bucks.

If you look at that 190w average, that's pretty ordinary. There is definitely speed to be gather there.

So you're probably a 6 on 10 aero wise and 5 on 10 power wise.

Work both. Move along both the x and y axis of Robert's chart. Currently you are in the middle along the X axis and bottom fifth on the Y axis

One is easier than the other :-)

When you swap to the TT bike for 3 months ahead of race day, does that mean you quit the Sat group rides? If so, then I think that's totally fine. I've had long periods where I did 4 group road "races" per week (when I was young), but leading up to a TT or Tri, it's best to focus on that effort. 6 weeks of prep seems to be enough for me.

Mostly. Probably still do one Saturday a month, or do the Saturday ride and then go long on TT midweek.

I do this whole thing for fun not professionally, so if it gets too serious and becomes a chore then I'm failing.

Absolutely!

I've heard people say that a bit and I dont quite understand. Is it because groups tend to ride in pace lines, so you benefit from the draft and power is down?

I just want miles and it'll be nice to ride with others for a change. Not sure if it will really help with tri training, but I figure it takes me out of my comfort zone as I have to push a higher cadence and generally work harder. Like yesterday when I got mildly dropped twice and had to work hard by myself to catch up (which only happened when they hit a traffic stop).

My average power was a bit low after the 72 miles yesterday, so then that makes me think maybe riding with a group can at least for part of it be considered "cake" (but maybe not since part of the reason it was down was the pace line support)

I'll go back to more of a formal plan when I am 8 weeks out from my next race and not ride with a group except maybe once per week.

Thanks, you put into words what I was thinking. How does one figure out CdA? I was thinking I was good on position/cda only cause I carried solid speed on lower power. But, I know there are still certainly gains to be made. I'm 46 and not sure i want to slam myself down on the bike as I need to be comfortable too.

I've been fitted, but of course I added a front hydration and had to move aero bars and cups around which I think totally messed with my cockpit placement. (of course they were tiny but still).

Does spending more money on an aero helmet make sense like ed said? Then I think about Brian Stover saying some aero helmets make some people slower and people need the right one for them. I'll just buy an aero helmet that I get on sale with no clue if its helping. Thats why i just went with the aero road helmet for versatility and maybe some aero gain.

Quote:

I assume that increasing my wattage will help

Same course / same conditions / same weight you will be faster pushing more watts. Any of those variables change and anything's possible.


What you should be most interested in is watts/kg. So either increase watts (ftp) or drop kg to go faster. To increase watts, I am a huge fan of structured training like TrainerRoad. Hop on one of their plans and reap the rewards. My first ftp test ever I think I was maybe 180. Managed to take it up to 250 putting their training plans on repeat.


This chart in this article makes the rounds from time to time but it was extremely eye opening for me. Using TrainerRoad I managed to go from Untrained / Novice to Cat 3/4 (4 W/kg) gaining 5-10W every 4-6 weeks (the FT column is ftp/kg).


Hope that helps.

It's because the effort is highly variable, hard, and doesn't resemble your race effort... which should be steady. It's not optimal for your race performance, but it might not be a big hit depending on a bunch of factors. And if those rides are more fun than optimizing your race performance, then who cares?

The two times in my life when I came off the couch, I went from ~190W to 300W FTP in less than 6 months... riding hard all the time, timing myself on climbs and routes and setting PRs... group rides/races. There is no great trick to this. If you test your limits on a regular basis, and you get enough rest to fully recover, then you will improve rapidly... until you plateau.

This is how to get in shape in a hurry, but it isn't how to get in your best possible shape... especially for long distance Tri. For that you want lots of volume and less intensity.