Had this same problem trying to help out a friend with mounting GP4kS2 on a new set of Enves. I'd never dealt with TLR wheels before and had no idea there was a technique or trick. I destroyed two tubes and spent damn near an hour before finally having success but only by brute force and determination. I'm really happy with my Zipp 404 FC non-TLR wheels right now. Tires damn near mount themselves on those rims.
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Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [rrheisler]
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Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [rrheisler]
[ In reply to ]
My guess is this is why the wheels were for sale.......
Hate to tell you, but if you're following all the suggested "tips and tricks" already noted.....your pretty much just screwed.
I had two pair of DT Swiss PRC's (tubeless) and Schwalble tubeless tires were a bit of a PITA to mount.....they were doable, but required some work......then I tried some Conti 4 Season tires.....no way the Contis were ever going on those set of wheels - so I sold both sets of wheels. No way I am ever riding a set of wheels where it's going to be that difficult to mount or fix a flat during a ride.
I now have two sets of Reynolds Aero wheels (tubeless) and the Schwalbes are easy on and off (Haven't tried the Conti tires yet). I'd like to try the Conti 5000 tubeless, but if they are difficult to mount I'll return them and continue with the Schwable tubeless.
Hate to tell you, but if you're following all the suggested "tips and tricks" already noted.....your pretty much just screwed.
I had two pair of DT Swiss PRC's (tubeless) and Schwalble tubeless tires were a bit of a PITA to mount.....they were doable, but required some work......then I tried some Conti 4 Season tires.....no way the Contis were ever going on those set of wheels - so I sold both sets of wheels. No way I am ever riding a set of wheels where it's going to be that difficult to mount or fix a flat during a ride.
I now have two sets of Reynolds Aero wheels (tubeless) and the Schwalbes are easy on and off (Haven't tried the Conti tires yet). I'd like to try the Conti 5000 tubeless, but if they are difficult to mount I'll return them and continue with the Schwable tubeless.
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [rrheisler]
[ In reply to ]
rrheisler wrote:
It looks like one side is getting stuck on the outer bead shelf, and will not unseat from it. Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.
Hmm... sounds like it's probably a wheel issue, especially since you're using a very common tire and have tried everything else suggested in this thread. Personally, I won't ride wheels that fit tires SUPER tight... not worth getting stranded somewhere.
One last option - I recall that the older Schwalbe Ultremo ZX (tube-type clincher) was my go-to tire for wheels that ran large or were very tough to put tires on. Older carbon/aluminum Zipp wheels (i.e. 404 clincher) are a great example, because the rim channel was completely flat with no dropped center. Even Zipp's own Tangente tires were an absolute beast to install, but the Schwalbe's weren't bad. Not sure if they still make that tire, but it might be worth a shot.
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [gregk]
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I couldn't get my tires back on my rims either. I stuck them in the dryer for 10 minutes, then was able to get them on.
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [pedal-boy]
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pedal-boy wrote:
I couldn't get my tires back on my rims either. I stuck them in the dryer for 10 minutes, then was able to get them on.Kudos, that's a nice idea. Pretty warm but not too hot.
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [rrheisler]
[ In reply to ]
How much air do you have in the tube when you're trying to seat the tire?
It is good practice to put a little bit of air in the tube to ensure it goes in with no folds. But once you get the tire on 70% of the way, you should already have the tube properly set in the rim channel 100% of the way. Once you get to this point, you can let all the air out of the tube.
For tighter fits, if you have some air in the tube, it will naturally push the beads apart a few mm, thus you negate the ability for the beads to be dead center in the channel.
After that, it's just a bit of finesse. If you can get to the point where you only have 10% left, then I'm almost certain that you can repeat the pinching and pulling process to squeeze out a mm or two. Because that's really all you need.
It is good practice to put a little bit of air in the tube to ensure it goes in with no folds. But once you get the tire on 70% of the way, you should already have the tube properly set in the rim channel 100% of the way. Once you get to this point, you can let all the air out of the tube.
For tighter fits, if you have some air in the tube, it will naturally push the beads apart a few mm, thus you negate the ability for the beads to be dead center in the channel.
After that, it's just a bit of finesse. If you can get to the point where you only have 10% left, then I'm almost certain that you can repeat the pinching and pulling process to squeeze out a mm or two. Because that's really all you need.
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [pedal-boy]
[ In reply to ]
I did a hair dryer on mine to warm them up, also did a little baby powder on the rim. Still took some doing to get that last bit over but it worked.
"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler
"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [Jason N]
[ In reply to ]
I open the valve, blow in, close it, then let air out after i get the tube 90% of the way there.
I may give this thing one more try tonight and take a picture or three where this thing is getting stuck.
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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
I may give this thing one more try tonight and take a picture or three where this thing is getting stuck.
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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [rrheisler]
[ In reply to ]
Have you been able to get the tire on without the innertube in it?
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [MrTri123]
[ In reply to ]
Haven't gotten home yet to make another attempt at it.
Judging on the other thread on the front page, it certainly appears that I'm not the only one having a hell of a time with tubes and TLR wheels.
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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Judging on the other thread on the front page, it certainly appears that I'm not the only one having a hell of a time with tubes and TLR wheels.
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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [MrTri123]
[ In reply to ]
Yes, and yes (although it took a lever to finish the job).
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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [MKirk]
[ In reply to ]
Same experience with Reynolds and Schwalbe Pro One going on very easy. Same with Roval CLX64 wheels on my ; both Pro One and S-Works Turbo went on pretty easy. GP5000TL went on very easy on my Synapse, which has the Cannondale carbon wheels. I've never flatted on any of these wheels. I keep the air at 80-85. Never going back to tubes.
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [Jason N]
[ In reply to ]
Well, I managed to get the front on, and it actually looks OK.
I swapped to a latex tube, which actually helped for some reason or another. It still took about 15 minutes, I did snap a tire lever, and I've got a blister the size of a nickel on a thumb, but I got there.
With this wheel it REALLY wants to grab the outer channel and stay there and not budge. The amount of effort to even get it unseated back into the center channel was ridiculous. I don't look forward to re-attempting the rear to get it seated correctly.
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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
I swapped to a latex tube, which actually helped for some reason or another. It still took about 15 minutes, I did snap a tire lever, and I've got a blister the size of a nickel on a thumb, but I got there.
With this wheel it REALLY wants to grab the outer channel and stay there and not budge. The amount of effort to even get it unseated back into the center channel was ridiculous. I don't look forward to re-attempting the rear to get it seated correctly.
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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [rrheisler]
[ In reply to ]
Way back when Conti tires did not play well with Mavic rims and I learned to use a tire lever inserted opposite where the bead is still off. Use one hand to hold the tire (again the area where the bead is off) with a thumb on the bead to put tension on it. Use the lever to push the tire bead away from the rim sidewall (toward the rim center) and slide it around toward the area the bead is off. Repeat by inserting the tire lever in the same location as before but slide it around the other direction. Again, repeat doing this in both directions until the bead pops on the last bit by itself or it is close enough to push over with your thumbs. By repeatedly pushing the bead toward the center of the rim and sliding lever toward your hand you are forcing the bead into the smaller diameter area in the center of the rim and dragging any slack in the bead toward the area still unseated. The technique takes a little practice to keep constant tension on the bead while using the lever to move and slide the bead but it will come easy.
Modifying this will also be useful to get the tire off, use the lever to force the bead away from the rim sidewall around the entire circumference, pinch the tire with one hand and slide your thumb to put some tension on one side of the bead. Continue by inserting the tire lever opposite your hand (that is pinching the tire) and slide it toward your hand, repeat in both directions until there is enough bead to pull off by hand or use the lever to assist.
I have had tire/rim combinations where once is enough and other where it took 15 so please be patient. Maybe this won't help you (because you have been working so hard already I suspect like others here the rims are no good) but will help someone else. I hate to think of anyone on the road who is capable of fixing a flat but unable to because of technology changes.
rich
Modifying this will also be useful to get the tire off, use the lever to force the bead away from the rim sidewall around the entire circumference, pinch the tire with one hand and slide your thumb to put some tension on one side of the bead. Continue by inserting the tire lever opposite your hand (that is pinching the tire) and slide it toward your hand, repeat in both directions until there is enough bead to pull off by hand or use the lever to assist.
I have had tire/rim combinations where once is enough and other where it took 15 so please be patient. Maybe this won't help you (because you have been working so hard already I suspect like others here the rims are no good) but will help someone else. I hate to think of anyone on the road who is capable of fixing a flat but unable to because of technology changes.
rich
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [rrutis]
[ In reply to ]
Is it safe to use a kool stop tire jack on carbon rims? They've been a thumb saver for me with my HED Jet Black wheels.
The jack is not made of steel, but I don't know if the direction of force it places on the rim would be too much for a carbon rim...
https://www.amazon.ca/...8754439296&psc=1
The jack is not made of steel, but I don't know if the direction of force it places on the rim would be too much for a carbon rim...
https://www.amazon.ca/...8754439296&psc=1
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [rrheisler]
[ In reply to ]
rrheisler wrote:
Well, I managed to get the front on, and it actually looks OK. I swapped to a latex tube, which actually helped for some reason or another. It still took about 15 minutes, I did snap a tire lever, and I've got a blister the size of a nickel on a thumb, but I got there.
With this wheel it REALLY wants to grab the outer channel and stay there and not budge. The amount of effort to even get it unseated back into the center channel was ridiculous. I don't look forward to re-attempting the rear to get it seated correctly.
Key is to push the bead away from the rim towards the center but you need to do that on both sides of the wheel (drive and non-drive). Both need to be unseated in order to create enough slack. The unseating is easy, with your thumbs push the tire off the rim towards the center and go around in little steps until one side is done; then repeat on the other side. Then the tire will sit loose and you can pull one side over the rim to insert a tube. You can easily insert a tube but again when doing so push the tire back towards the center of the rim so the bead won't seat. When you're trying to mount the tire, start by pushing as much slack as you can towards the end point (opposite end of where you're start mounting the tire) and repeat this a few times as you go around it. You should have just enough slack to mount the tire at the end without needing tire levers.
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [rrheisler]
[ In reply to ]
I've come to the conclusion that certain wheel/tire combos are terrible, bordering impossible and others not so bad.
My everyday wheels are an old set of Bontrager XXX Race Lite aluminum clincher wheels (Bonty does not make these anymore). These things are absolutely bomb proof. I can almost do a tube change with these completely barehanded with Conti 4000 and now 5000 clincher tires. I just need a bit a lever help to get the OFF process going and it all goes quickly from there.
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
My everyday wheels are an old set of Bontrager XXX Race Lite aluminum clincher wheels (Bonty does not make these anymore). These things are absolutely bomb proof. I can almost do a tube change with these completely barehanded with Conti 4000 and now 5000 clincher tires. I just need a bit a lever help to get the OFF process going and it all goes quickly from there.
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
I can do the Contis lever free on my normal training hoops (they are also pre-TLR clinchers).
I can't ever see getting the Vittorias on, which is a damn shame. I bought them specifically for this set up.
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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
I can't ever see getting the Vittorias on, which is a damn shame. I bought them specifically for this set up.
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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [burnthesheep]
[ In reply to ]
burnthesheep wrote:
Maybe warm the tires up. Pot of hot water on the stove, not boiling but not hand washing either. Or a hot summer car. Then try.
In winter I sit them over a room vent.
This and deadlift. Step on the tire and pull with your hands just like doing the dealift. Tire is just tad bit small.
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [rrheisler]
[ In reply to ]
PM'd you.
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [rrheisler]
[ In reply to ]
Just put on a new set of GP5000 tubeless on a new Reynolds AR58/62 wheelset. Right out of the box, with NO soapy water or anything, the tires went on with just one lever at the very end for a bit of leverage but only because I am lacking hand/finger strength right now in one hand after breaking it recently. If I had used something to lubricate the beads and hand some more strength I probably would not have needed the levers. I really just put the tires on too see how easily they would go on. Tight, as tubeless should be, but not difficult at all.
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [seeyouincourt]
[ In reply to ]
Yes, I've heard the new AR series are significantly better at tire fit versus the Strikes.
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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [rrheisler]
[ In reply to ]
To compare with the 2017 Strike 60s that I had, getting tubeless on was a pain in the ass. Almost impossible. Schwalbe pro one went on okay, and S-works turbo went on ok, but anything else was an impossible fight and I just gave up.
Re: What the Hell Am I Doing Wrong? (Tire Install) [SBRcanuck]
[ In reply to ]
I have no experience with the tire jack...I wish I could say it was safe for carbon rims. Sounds like something to check with the rim mfg for.
rich
p.s. sorry for the late reply
rich
p.s. sorry for the late reply
Just to make you a bit more frustrated..........
Reynolds Aero 45's......saw I had a deflated tire sitting in the garage....popped the tire bead and tubeless tape needed replaced. Using a single tire lever easily removed the tire, installed new tape and remounted tire easily by hand.....inflated with a CO2. Decided to check the other wheel and add some fluid......same - popped the bead and removed tire easily with a single lever......remounted easily by hand.
There are good systems out there!
Reynolds Aero 45's......saw I had a deflated tire sitting in the garage....popped the tire bead and tubeless tape needed replaced. Using a single tire lever easily removed the tire, installed new tape and remounted tire easily by hand.....inflated with a CO2. Decided to check the other wheel and add some fluid......same - popped the bead and removed tire easily with a single lever......remounted easily by hand.
There are good systems out there!