Re: What supplements are you taking and why [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 19 13:04

Post #26 of 58 (5626 views)

Supplements?

If you are considering taking any, then this should be put on your reading list - https://journals.humankinetics.com/toc/ijsnem/28/2

It's the IOC's annual published report, with input from many leading sports medicine and nutrition professionals from around the world.

It's a long read. The high lights are as follows:

- Few if any supplements actually help.

- If you are going to take them, you need to do a proper testing and trial situation . .

- . . . under the supervision of a Medical or Nutrition specialist.

- Finally, contamination with other banned WADA substances, in this completely unregulated business is still a really serious problem.

Yet despite the above, this multi $billion business has athletes at all levels popping all manner of supplements like candy all the time. I surveyed a few of the top people in this area who I know in Canada. One of them has his PhD in Sports Nutrition, is a leading authority world-wide in this area, and advises a number of Canadian National teams including the Triathlon and Athletics Canada Track & Field Teams. Current advise, for athletes in ANY kind of testing pool or who have the potential to be tested (that would include any AG Triathlete repping their country at an ITU World Championships, or if you have qualified for the IM or 70.3 World Championships) - DO NOT take any supplements, unless under the guidance of people like him or other Professionals in the area.

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 19 15:28

Post #27 of 58 (5545 views)

I've been supplementing my daily nutrition intake with protein for over 30 years. I still eat a considerable amount of meat, but the rest is from whey or milk/caseinate. I also use an amino and BCAA mix during training. Mainly supplement the protein because it is easier drinking it down quickly than eating that much lean meat per day and how that interferes with work. Plus it is now more cost effective compared to buying that much meat per week.

Not posting that others should follow this. My goals are entirely different than most members on ST.

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [monty] [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 19 17:12

Post #28 of 58 (5508 views)

Are you using "CALM" magnesium? I have the natural flavor & it tastes like crap. I think I'll get the pink lemonade next time.

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 19 17:14

Post #29 of 58 (5506 views)

No, I just get the Costco big bottles when they go on sale. It is the right mix of things that apparently absorb the best, and lately they added vitamin D to the mix too. Buying that stuff retail and alone costs a fortune..

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 19 17:30

Post #30 of 58 (5500 views)

My supplement list:
Astaxanthin 12 mg
Ashwagandha 600 mg
ALA 600 mg
Beta-Alanine (in pre-workout mix) 1500mg before high intensity workouts
Echinacea 400 mg
Eleuthero 500 mg
EP-NO received via a team that I used to ride for
First Endurance OptygenHP - Cleaned out PBS when it was 50% before the doors closed
Krill Oil 1000 mg
Maca 500 mg
Magnesium 1000 mg
Spirulina 500 mg
Muscle Milk + extra Glutamine and BCAAs for post workout recovery.

Leading into a race day:
Beet juice

Last edited by: Ohio_Roadie: Mar 28, 19 11:19

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 19 20:08

Post #31 of 58 (5457 views)

Hello Stimps9 and All,

With most supplements the rule is probably ..... if it works .... it is illegal

Also consider anti-supplements or supplement deprivation ..... like oxygen deprivation to increase hematocrit ...

I take a couple of flax oil (Omega 3 .... similar to fish oil) because my eye doctor reccomends it and a couple of fish oil capsules (spit out the capsule part).

Fish oil and Flax oil reduce blood coagulation .... I also tried adding a baby asprin each day on my doctors reccomendation but I bled too easily when cut ... so I cut the asprin out.

Blood clot stroke is a consideration when you get old and so this seems like and easy way to help reduce that risk also may be some value for vascular health.

I also take a multi vitamin ... probably a waste as I eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables ... but it is a habit now.

Sometimes I eat a couple of Brazil nuts (some radiation consideration) as a good source of selenium .... and I like the crunch. I eat a couple of squares of dark Trader Joe's chocolate .... but that is probably just because I like it.

Eat a few small handfulls of various nuts each day for snacks.

Maybe I should get some beet juice .... Andy's posts showed promise.

https://www.popsugar.com/...-Run-Faster-45948774

"Excerpt:"

Let's get the weirdness out of the way. Yes, I know drinking beet juice with the goal of running faster sounds really odd — especially when I think about it from the athlete/trainer perspective. One would typically consider following a strength-training program or a running program and more than likely incorporating speed work into a training plan in order to run faster. I included all of those things, to a certain extent, into my training plan for the 2019 New York City Half Marathon, but I also tried one more thing to help me achieve my goal of running faster than 1:58:00 — beet juice.

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [nealhe] [ In reply to ]

Mar 28, 19 11:17

Post #32 of 58 (5326 views)

I focus hard on diet these days. I used to think that "if you run the furnace hot enough it will burn up anything", but i've come around. For example, my favorite meal before a good long hard mountain bike ride (4 hours or so) is a giant stack of buttermilk pancakes, made with coconut milk in them, with peanut butter AND syrup. Then rest of the day it's fish, occasionally lean meats and veggies veggies veggies.

Only supplements i take:

- A recovery drink that includes BCAAs
- Occasionally whey protein, depending on the day
- Melatonin and Valerian root for sleep

The BCAAs and Whey Protein are nothing special, they don't give you anything that meat or eggs or a combination of vegetable proteins won't give you. But there are times when fatigue makes you feel less hungry / it's right before bed and you don't really want to slam a steak. So to me, it's a no-brainer, doesn't really need to be clinically validated for the way i use it.

And the sleep stuff is to help me relax because i have trouble winding down sometimes. I know both of these have been clinically validated as safe and effective and moreover, they seem to work for me.

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [devolikewhoa83] [ In reply to ]

Mar 28, 19 11:39

Post #33 of 58 (5307 views)

Thanks for all the posts, really interesting stuff. My diet is also relatively poor and so I need to focus on this probably before worrying about supplements.

On protein I recently heard an recommendation that a triathlete in training take 1.5g per kg per day when training. For me that is a real challenge.... I’m a fully paid up carnivore but still it takes a lot of focus to do this. On this basis I need 120g per day. Yesterday I was at 45g at 5pm.

Anyone have any thought on this 1.5g per kg per day? I’m reckoning I’ll need 2 protein shakes per day plus my usual diet to achieve this....

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]

Mar 28, 19 11:43

Post #34 of 58 (5300 views)

Depends on what you're trying to do...but I'm closer to 1g/lb.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]

Mar 28, 19 11:46

Post #35 of 58 (5300 views)

Cody Beals is smarter than everybody who chimes in here. He’s thought about it more than everybody who chimes in here probably. Maybe he’s changed his mind but I remember looking on his website or year or two ago and his his conclusion is don’t waste your time or money.
Get your eating psycho correct

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]

Mar 28, 19 12:43

Post #36 of 58 (5260 views)

Stimps9 wrote:

Thanks for all the posts, really interesting stuff. My diet is also relatively poor and so I need to focus on this probably before worrying about supplements.

On protein I recently heard an recommendation that a triathlete in training take 1.5g per kg per day when training. For me that is a real challenge.... I’m a fully paid up carnivore but still it takes a lot of focus to do this. On this basis I need 120g per day. Yesterday I was at 45g at 5pm.

Anyone have any thought on this 1.5g per kg per day? I’m reckoning I’ll need 2 protein shakes per day plus my usual diet to achieve this....

That is a common number seen in quite a few research papers. I am at about 1.5 +/- and as posted earlier been doing this for over 30 years. Well back when I competed I was at 2gr/kg. I used to try to eat that much in meat, but it gets pretty old eating that much and the meals begin to blend together. Not to mention sitting in meetings with smelly chicken, tuna or whatever. I usually use two 30gr drinks a day in supplementing protein so that gets me 60grms with a quick drink. The rest is from meat, milk, eggs and fish.

A coworker/friend has been losing weight and is down from over 300lbs just by changing his diet and walking daily. He is down to 250 and started attending a boot camp to improve strength and was also told by a nutritionist there to up his protein to 1.5gr/kg. Like you he is not used to eating like this so I check on him yesterday and he was at 50 grams the evening before. Well short of what he is supposed to be taking in. However, he has improved intake with protein shakes and said he is recovering better from the strength training portion.

As TheStroBro mentioned it is all about your goals.

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [ In reply to ]

Mar 28, 19 12:59

Post #37 of 58 (5242 views)

OP, if you are interested here is one of many papers. This one happens to be with cyclists (endurance) whereas many tend to be for strength training. For me 1.5 has been working well with a blend of strength and endurance training year round.

https://www.tandfonline.com/...&needAccess=true

Quote:

Current protein recommendations from the American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, and ACSM for ultra-endurance athletes range from 1.2 to 1.4 g/kg BM/day (Rodríguez et al., 2009Rodríguez, N. R., Di Marco, N. M., & Langley, S. (2009). American College of Sports Medicine position stand: Nutrition and athletic performance. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 41(3), 709–731. doi:10.1249/MSS.0b013e31890eb86 [Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]). However, some studies have suggested dietary protein intakes of up to 1.7 g/kg BM/day for elite endurance athletes (Tarnopolsky, 2004Tarnopolsky, M. (2004). Protein requirements for endurance athletes. Nutrition, 20, 662–668. doi: 10.1016/j.nut.2004.04.008[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]) due to its ability to provide substrates for the repair and remodelling of muscle and body proteins (Moore, Camera, Areta, & Hawley, 2014Moore, D. R., Camera, D. M., Areta, J. L., & Hawley, J. A. (2014). Beyond muscle hypertrophy: Why dietary protein is important for endurance athletes. Applied Physiology, Nutrition and Metabolism, 39(9), 987–997. doi:10.1139/apnm-2013-0591 [Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]). Brouns et al. (1989Brouns, F., Saris, W. H., Stroecken, J., Beckers, E., Thijssen, R., Rehrer, N. J., & ten Hoor, F. (1989). Eating, drinking, and cycling. A controlled Tour de France simulation study, part II. Effect of diet manipulation. International Journal of Sports Medicine, 10(l), 41–48. doi: 10.1055/s-2007-1024953[Crossref], , [Google Scholar]) reported a protein requirement of 1.5–1.8 g/kg BM/day to maintain nitrogen balance in a Tour of France cycling simulation with well-trained cyclists. Cyclists’ daily protein intake during the Tour of Spain was well above current recommendations. Previous reports have indicated that endurance athletes generally consume more protein than thought to be required (Tarnopolsky, 2004Tarnopolsky, M. (2004). Protein requirements for endurance athletes. Nutrition, 20, 662–668. doi: 10.1016/j.nut.2004.04.008[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]). This high protein intake has been reported previously in other studies, with cyclists showing similar results to the present study with a protein intake of 3.0 ± 0.3 g/kg BM/day in the Tour of Andalusia (Sánchez-Muñoz et al., 2016Sánchez-Muñoz, C., Zabala, M., & Muros, J. J. (2016). Nutritional intake and anthropometric changes of professional road cyclists during a 4-day competition. Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports, 26, 802–808. doi:10.1111/sms.12513 [Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]); 2.9 ± 0.3 g/kg BM/day in the Tour of Southland (Rehrer et al., 2010Rehrer, N. J., Hellemans, I. J., Rolleston, A. K., Rush, E., & Miller, B. F. (2010). Energy intake and expenditure during a 6-day cycling stage race. Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports, 20, 609–618. doi:10.1111/j.1600-0838.2009.00974.x [Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]); 3.0 ± 0.3 g/kg BM/day in the Tour of Spain (García-Roves et al., 1998García-Roves, P. M., Terrados, N., Fernández, S. F., & Patterson, A. M.(1998). Macronutrients intake of top level cyclists during continuous competition--change in the feeding pattern. International Journal of Sports Medicine, 19(1), 61–67. doi: 10.1055/s-2007-971882[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]); or 2.5 g/kg BM/day in the Tour of France (Saris et al., 1989Saris, W. H., Van Erp-Baart, M. A., Brouns, F., Westerterp, K. R., & ten Hoor, F. (1989). Study on food intake and energy expenditure during extreme sustained exercise: the Tour de France. International Journal of Sports Medicine, 10(1), 26–31. doi: 10.1055/s-2007-1024951[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ®], , [Google Scholar]).

Last edited by: Felt_Rider: Mar 28, 19 13:00

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [DBF] [ In reply to ]

Apr 1, 19 14:01

Post #38 of 58 (5065 views)

DBF wrote:

Cody Beals is smarter than everybody who chimes in here. He’s thought about it more than everybody who chimes in here probably. Maybe he’s changed his mind but I remember looking on his website or year or two ago and his his conclusion is don’t waste your time or money.
Get your eating psycho correct

That sir, is a blatant untruth! There are some posters and plenty of lurkers far brighter than me around here. I have given supplements a lot of thought and research. My conclusion is that all but a handful of non-prohibited supplements are a waste of money or fall into that dubious ethical "grey area" (e.g. bogus asthma prescriptions, off-label thyroid meds, etc.). This conclusion is echoed by my sports doc, who's an authority on this topic and consults on doping policy. Even a couple on the short list I take have been cast into doubt by the latest research. Here's what I'm taking lately with a brief explanation:

iron (~64 mg/day) - Based on a history of iron deficiency and regular blood tests showing a need to supplement in order to maintain good serum ferritin levels. I occasionally pair iron with Vitamin C to boost absorption.
Vitamin D (1,000-2,000 IU/day in the winter) - Canada problems. Latest research suggests that there's not really any substitute for actual sunlight, but it's cheap and probably not harmful.
Melatonin (occasional) - Help with time zone travel, pre/post-race sleep and sleep onset insomnia.
Beetroot extract (pre-race) - Probably not that helpful for well-trained endurance athletes with plenty of dietary nitrate, but possibly still helpful and probably not harmful.
Caffeine (pre-race/workout) - Yes, I consider this a supplement. I prefer to take caffeine in pill or gummy form to dose more precisely and respect it for the potent stimulant it is.
CBD (occasional) - A little extra help with relaxation, sleep and focus.

Note that I don't count things like protein (e.g. whey) or carbohydrate (e.g. maltodextrin, fructose) products because I consider these to be closer to food than supplements.

CodyBeals.com | Instagram | TikTok
ASICS | Ventum | Martin's | HED | VARLO | Shimano | 4iiii | Keystone Communications

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]

Apr 1, 19 14:37

Post #39 of 58 (5036 views)

I use Extenze regularly.

Just kidding. I think that's what got Lashawn Merritt popped for doping. Or that's what he blamed it on.

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]

Apr 1, 19 20:24

Post #40 of 58 (4974 views)

Try to keep pretty simple and as insurance versus performance - eg travel a lot on planes full of people at times when energy burned in training. Klean Athlete multivitamin, Omega, and Probiotic. In winter will add the Vitamin D.

I miss you "Sports Night"

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [Quo Vadimus] [ In reply to ]

Apr 2, 19 9:39

Post #41 of 58 (4808 views)

I consider supplements as tools contributing to both recovery & resiliency and overall health. I'd take these even if I wasn't training:
- Fish oil capsules (for overall health)
- Glocosomine/MSM capsules (for joint health)
- Glutamine (for muscle recovery)
- Chromium (helps regulate blood suger levels)

Generally stay on a very healthy diet (meat free, wheat free) which should provide needed vitamins, minerals and nutrients. Each day typically includes 1/2C blueberries, 1 orange, 1 apple, 1-2 bananas, 1-2C spinach, 1-2C other greens (peas, beans etc), 1/2C carrots, 1/4C hemp seeds, 1/2C seeds & nuts, 4-6 eggs, rye bread, quinoa, brown rice, chicken.

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [Fleck] [ In reply to ]

Apr 3, 19 6:25

Post #42 of 58 (4704 views)

Cabernet Sauvignon

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [IM_Rick] [ In reply to ]

Apr 3, 19 6:38

Post #43 of 58 (4699 views)

IM_Rick wrote:

I consider supplements as tools contributing to both recovery & resiliency and overall health. I'd take these even if I wasn't training:
- Fish oil capsules (for overall health)
- Glocosomine/MSM capsules (for joint health)
- Glutamine (for muscle recovery)
- Chromium (helps regulate blood suger levels)

Generally stay on a very healthy diet (meat free, wheat free) which should provide needed vitamins, minerals and nutrients. Each day typically includes 1/2C blueberries, 1 orange, 1 apple, 1-2 bananas, 1-2C spinach, 1-2C other greens (peas, beans etc), 1/2C carrots, 1/4C hemp seeds, 1/2C seeds & nuts, 4-6 eggs, rye bread, quinoa, brown rice, chicken.

Huh? Meat free with chicken?

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]

Apr 3, 19 6:50

Post #44 of 58 (4688 views)

turdburgler wrote:

IM_Rick wrote:

I consider supplements as tools contributing to both recovery & resiliency and overall health. I'd take these even if I wasn't training:
- Fish oil capsules (for overall health)
- Glocosomine/MSM capsules (for joint health)
- Glutamine (for muscle recovery)
- Chromium (helps regulate blood suger levels)

Generally stay on a very healthy diet (meat free, wheat free) which should provide needed vitamins, minerals and nutrients. Each day typically includes 1/2C blueberries, 1 orange, 1 apple, 1-2 bananas, 1-2C spinach, 1-2C other greens (peas, beans etc), 1/2C carrots, 1/4C hemp seeds, 1/2C seeds & nuts, 4-6 eggs, rye bread, quinoa, brown rice, chicken.

Huh? Meat free with chicken?

No red meat.

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [IM_Rick] [ In reply to ]

Apr 3, 19 7:12

Post #45 of 58 (4670 views)

I forgot my favorite and most important supplement: caffeine :) :) :) :) :)

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [IM_Rick] [ In reply to ]

Apr 3, 19 7:23

Post #46 of 58 (4663 views)

IM_Rick wrote:

turdburgler wrote:

IM_Rick wrote:

I consider supplements as tools contributing to both recovery & resiliency and overall health. I'd take these even if I wasn't training:
- Fish oil capsules (for overall health)
- Glocosomine/MSM capsules (for joint health)
- Glutamine (for muscle recovery)
- Chromium (helps regulate blood suger levels)

Generally stay on a very healthy diet (meat free, wheat free) which should provide needed vitamins, minerals and nutrients. Each day typically includes 1/2C blueberries, 1 orange, 1 apple, 1-2 bananas, 1-2C spinach, 1-2C other greens (peas, beans etc), 1/2C carrots, 1/4C hemp seeds, 1/2C seeds & nuts, 4-6 eggs, rye bread, quinoa, brown rice, chicken.

Huh? Meat free with chicken?

No red meat.

Makes so much more sense. :-\

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [IM_Rick] [ In reply to ]

Apr 3, 19 7:29

Post #47 of 58 (4656 views)

Which are the red meats?

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]

Apr 3, 19 7:53

Post #48 of 58 (4638 views)

Red Meat and Dairy are the highest sources of BCAAs...why people want to avoid them I'll never know.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]

Apr 3, 19 12:53

Post #49 of 58 (4596 views)

Some people might think the environment and decreasing their risk of cancer is more important than finding a non-animal source for BCAAs

Re: What supplements are you taking and why [jmechy] [ In reply to ]

Apr 3, 19 13:50

Post #50 of 58 (4578 views)

So, do you eat Bacon?

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

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