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TR Oly build is really hard!
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Man, TR Oly build on the bike is hard!

I did the entire TR Oly base which went fine, not too bad, although my FTP only went up by a measly 4 after the base, but to be fair, I felt that I needed the less-intense bike after the summer race season. I've been doing tri for 9 years now so am pretty experienced - so I'm not getting any big newbie gains for sure.

I'm now wk 3 of the TR Oly Build plan (with the +4 FTP on the TR ramp test), and man, it's hard! I consider myself pretty good at suffering, but in the last two workouts, I couldn't complete the last interval or two without taking a quick pause mid-interval on my Kickr.

I'm also doing their runs/swims nearly as prescribed as well; those have been going fine, the only thing I've added to those are slightly longer pickups (1min instead of 30sec run pickups).

Anyone else do the TR Oly Build and care to comment on how hard it was for you? I will likely have to lower my FTP or do a -2-5% per workout in the next few weeks just to keep up!
Last edited by: lightheir: Jan 15, 19 11:10
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Which volume are you doing? I have done 12 weeks of the high volume oly tri base and have increased my FTP by 36 during that time. I am on day 2 of the high volume oly build now. I am a duathlete so I skip all of the swims. Yesterday I was toying with the mid volume vs the high volume for build so I am curious to hear other peoples thoughts.
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Took me 2 years to get from 300w to 325 (4.7w/kg). That's like 0.25W/week :) I'm sure I probably went up and down during this time... this is just based on the times when I actually tested.

What's your CdA?
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [pkeys00] [ In reply to ]
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pkeys00 wrote:
Which volume are you doing? I have done 12 weeks of the high volume oly tri base and have increased my FTP by 36 during that time. I am on day 2 of the high volume oly build now. I am a duathlete so I skip all of the swims. Yesterday I was toying with the mid volume vs the high volume for build so I am curious to hear other peoples thoughts.

Mid volume Oly base then build is what I'm doing/did.

The intensity of the bike workouts is what's really hard for me. I'm hoping I'll get more used to it with the coming weeks, but it's no joke. I'm gonna stick with it as long as I can, but as the plan continues to up the intensity and TSS, I may have to dial it back in later weeks if I can't keep up.

My run training is significant and is likely adding to the beatdown, but I'm def not pushing my limits on the run, have plenty of room to go up there in training.
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't done the Oly plan but did do the HIM plan and the VO2 workouts were real killers!! I can remember being completely shelled after them, and many times I would be beating on my chest like king kong after the times I was actually able to finish all of the intervals lolololol. I had to also make sure the day before the vo2 day was super easy on the legs to be able to have a chance at completing the workout. keep at it, it works! But if you're having trouble always decrease intensity rather than end the workout early ONLY if necessary though.

Strava I Instagram I Team Every Man Jack I PM me for 25% off discount code at everymanjack.com
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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@Sean - thanks for the input, that's really helpful, especially from a speedy Team EMJ member no less!

That 'shelled' feeling on the VO2max intervals is exactly what I'm experiencing. I too learned that I have to ease off on the run stuff the day before, or I'm not going to be able to finish the VO2max intervals as they are so hard.

Did all that beatdown help you eventually and are you still using TR? Or are you taking another route (nothing wrong with mixing up training stimuli, that's kind of what I'm doing now with the TR as opposed to my normal less-intense but more volume bike focus.)
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Sean H wrote:
I haven't done the Oly plan but did do the HIM plan and the VO2 workouts were real killers!! I can remember being completely shelled after them, and many times I would be beating on my chest like king kong after the times I was actually able to finish all of the intervals lolololol. I had to also make sure the day before the vo2 day was super easy on the legs to be able to have a chance at completing the workout. keep at it, it works! But if you're having trouble always decrease intensity rather than end the workout early ONLY if necessary though.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has done this...

Instagram | floathammerholdon
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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It is a unique feeling for sure!

That beatdown led to a breakthrough for me (along with a shitload of running) in the 2016/2017 offseason. I ran 50mpw for 3-4 months then did TR HIM build/specialty. Took my HIM PR down to 4:18 from previous best of 4:53. So yes it works!

I was planning on doing the same thing this past offseason with a big run block then executing the TR full plan to try and KQ. But I got injured at the beginning of the year and wasn't sure what to do anymore so hired a coach for the rest of the year.

But I'm back self coached now and will be doing the TR HIM plan again starting in a few weeks.

Strava I Instagram I Team Every Man Jack I PM me for 25% off discount code at everymanjack.com
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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cloy wrote:
Sean H wrote:
I haven't done the Oly plan but did do the HIM plan and the VO2 workouts were real killers!! I can remember being completely shelled after them, and many times I would be beating on my chest like king kong after the times I was actually able to finish all of the intervals lolololol. I had to also make sure the day before the vo2 day was super easy on the legs to be able to have a chance at completing the workout. keep at it, it works! But if you're having trouble always decrease intensity rather than end the workout early ONLY if necessary though.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who has done this...

awesome, man it sure feels good to have fought through those!

Strava I Instagram I Team Every Man Jack I PM me for 25% off discount code at everymanjack.com
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Sean H wrote:
I haven't done the Oly plan but did do the HIM plan and the VO2 workouts were real killers!! I can remember being completely shelled after them, and many times I would be beating on my chest like king kong after the times I was actually able to finish all of the intervals lolololol. I had to also make sure the day before the vo2 day was super easy on the legs to be able to have a chance at completing the workout. keep at it, it works! But if you're having trouble always decrease intensity rather than end the workout early ONLY if necessary though.

I'm doing the mid volume HIM plan, and that's exactly what I do; the day before the vo2 workout I just do a swim, to keep the legs fresh and recovered.
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Man that's an incredibly monster improvement from an already strong showing from 4:53->4:18. Kudos! You should be the poster boy for TR improvement!

Good luck on the recovery from injury and the KQ quest!
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks man! I had to transfer from an early season race to a late season one, but was able to recover from the injury and punch the ticket! So I will prob be doing the TR full plan this summer.

Strava I Instagram I Team Every Man Jack I PM me for 25% off discount code at everymanjack.com
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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A few weeks ago the Oly build was wrong, it was just a verbatim repeat of the base.

I pinged TrainerRoad & they got it updated in a day (I’m guessing they reverted it, as initially the 20 min FTP test was there). Either way looking at it post update it looked pretty challenging.

Last year I did sweet spot base, sustained power build & then the 70.3 specially. I thought SSB was challenging, but that build put me in a hole at its peak (big week + 5k race + swim = boom). Took a few days to get back on track. Whilst my FTP didn’t move during that progression at the end I could hold just under 90% of it for a couple of hours.

You can complete the builds, it’s entirely possible, but you’ve got to stack the deck in your favor. Food, cooling, sleep, workout timing etc...
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Have you tried the Sustained Power Build? Curious how the SPB compares with the Oly Build. Seems both would center around a 40k effort. Any thoughts on which is more effective?

Scott

"I was tired, so I shut off my brain and my body finished without me"
~KFU, age 13
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [SteveM] [ In reply to ]
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I see now you’ve done the SPB. ^^^^^Thoughts on my post above?^^^^^^

Scott

"I was tired, so I shut off my brain and my body finished without me"
~KFU, age 13
Last edited by: GreatScott: Jan 15, 19 20:11
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Just a heads up for anyone who just arrived to this thread -

I googled "Trainerroad VO2max reddit" and it seems that tons of folks are horrified at the beatdown that TR inflicts with its VO2max intervals, so it's not just me!


This thread is one of the main ones, and has a good comment from the TR coaching guy:


I just talked to Coach Chad about this and here's what he had to say.
"VO2max intervals are almost their own animal in the way that they don’t scale to FTP the same way sub-threshold intervals do. Once above FTP, things get far more subjective than below FTP, so tweaking your VO2max repeats to a repeatable wattage is necessary in a lot of cases.
I have the most success when I try the longer repeats (and I’m only talking about the 2- to 3-minute jobbers) to 115%. Try that, see if you can get through them, scale upward to 117, 118% only if necessary. If you’re huffing and puffing, HR is sky high, but you don’t fall apart before the interval ends, you’re on the right track."
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Yes but I was trying to do it whilst racing sprints sprinkled in. I could do OR get close to finishing some of those v02 ones but I couldn’t back it up with their second workout which was usually threshold or over unders etc as well as race. I switched them out to sweet spot because i eventually cooked.
Be wary on some of it, they burnt me a bit. Don’t feel bad or be shy on recovery
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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GreatScott wrote:
I see now you’ve done the SPB. ^^^^^Thoughts on my post above?^^^^^^

Scott

I've not done the Oly build, but I'm planning on giving it a go.

My suspicion is that the Oly build will help to increase FTP, where sustained power in my experience didn't (just allowed me to hold it for longer).
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [SteveM] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting theory. I suppose that makes sense considering a lower IF relative to FTP should help us run off the bike.

I’m converting from long course to an Oly focus this year, and looking forward to learning more about these elements of stimulus-response in training.

Scott

"I was tired, so I shut off my brain and my body finished without me"
~KFU, age 13
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [pkeys00] [ In reply to ]
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I did the low vol Sprint Tri plans last year (base, build, specialty). I've been doing Tris for 13yrs but the bike workouts were always super hard on TR. It all depends on how YOU as the athlete respond to certain types of stimuli. I found the plan too intense, especially during racing season and dug myself into a hole which caused my fitness to steadily decline the 2nd half of the year. It makes sense when I look back on my training now, but it's hard to see in the moment.

The low vol plan didn't have any steady aerobic/AeT riding, and I've found I need more of that to improve fitness; & less of the super high end stuff. The VO2 max days (Tuesdays) were the hardest and wiped me out. The supra threshold days (Thursdays) always seemed doable but I found myself having to turn intensity way down just to make the intervals, which crushed me even more for my Saturday sweetspot rides as I was still really tired from Tues/thursdays. Compared to my bike times from previous years, I didn't have any power PR's during my races or any significant improvements on the bike, and that might confirm that this type of plan isn't the right one for me.
The application and functionality was awesome and TR is great, but it just didn't work for me. Lesson learned. I'm sure it works for others too, just not for me.
Last edited by: D_a_v_e_p: Jan 16, 19 9:42
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Percent FTP is not a valid indicator of VO2 max. Best bet is to repeat 4 x 4 workouts at maximum sustainable intensity. If they become easier or you are able to manage a fifth interval then up the power for the next workout.

Interval Design Studio
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
Just a heads up for anyone who just arrived to this thread -

I googled "Trainerroad VO2max reddit" and it seems that tons of folks are horrified at the beatdown that TR inflicts with its VO2max intervals, so it's not just me!


This thread is one of the main ones, and has a good comment from the TR coaching guy:


I just talked to Coach Chad about this and here's what he had to say.
"VO2max intervals are almost their own animal in the way that they don’t scale to FTP the same way sub-threshold intervals do. Once above FTP, things get far more subjective than below FTP, so tweaking your VO2max repeats to a repeatable wattage is necessary in a lot of cases.
I have the most success when I try the longer repeats (and I’m only talking about the 2- to 3-minute jobbers) to 115%. Try that, see if you can get through them, scale upward to 117, 118% only if necessary. If you’re huffing and puffing, HR is sky high, but you don’t fall apart before the interval ends, you’re on the right track."

The two hardest bike workouts I've done in my life were vo2max TR workouts:

- One was the 3 x [3x3] @ 120%
- The other one was 2 x [ 20' as 30" on, 30" off ]

I was literally on the ground for like 5 minutes thinking I was going to die.

I am doing the 3 x [ 3 x 2' ] @ 120% on Thursday, and I think I can handle that one. 3 minutes @ 120% is a crap ton of time. I may jut do that and reduce it to 115% for that one.
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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This recent TR podcast helped me cope with my daily struggle with TR’s Sweet Spot Build:



Figured the concepts cross over into the Oly Build and are worth a view.

Scott

"I was tired, so I shut off my brain and my body finished without me"
~KFU, age 13
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
Man that's an incredibly monster improvement from an already strong showing from 4:53->4:18. Kudos! You should be the poster boy for TR improvement!

Good luck on the recovery from injury and the KQ quest!

Some boat here. Can't say enough about TRs plans. I did 12 IMs (3 yrs) with my IM PR gradually dropping from 12:45 to 10:35. Then got a Hammer and TR. First FTP test pegged me at 209 W. After just 11 months off dying during TR sessions but following every workout, my FTP jumped to 300 W and a 9:45 IM two months ago.

TR has been killer and incredibly effective for me. Every FTP test has seen a 8-10% increase, so hopefully I'm not hitting a plateau any time soon.
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Re: TR Oly build is really hard! [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Newbie here, second year doing triathlons, FTP195, doing the mid volume oly build. Several times the first interval on those VO2 days looks like it's going to be the last...but somehow I end pulling through the whole workout, it's not pretty but....having said that, my wife has come in the garage to check on me a couple times because she can hear me exhale from inside the house, lol.
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