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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
friskyDingo wrote:
What's the etiquette when some random dude decides to hop on your wheel without asking and just sits there? On a solo ride or long commute?

I get annoyed and drop them. I feel stupid but it just annoys me, and I'm burning matches for no good reason. I usually enjoy the company if they ask, but sometimes they don't and I don't want them next to me, am I overreacting?


I normally sit up, brake and wave him up the road, then take a drink, eat a bite, take a pee.

I just find it rude, as out in the countryside there is enough space to keep your distance. So it sort of invades my privacy to some extend if some random person latches on and without asking/introducing himself sniffs my ass for extended periods of time (after all you ride alone for a reason).

One never knows what the dudes credentials are (chances are they are pretty weak, if he can't find anybody to ride with), and the last thing I need is some bozo running into me from behind while he's redlining and crashing me out.

If they are really clingy, I ask for his phone number, explaining that he's the first I'll call if I wanted somebody to make out with.
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That in most cases gets the message across.
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I do the same thing even if i'm in my car and other cars ride behind me on the roads. There is no doubt I'm entitled to the entire road and no one should be anywhere near me.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:
Seems weird in the sense that if they caught up to you, they are obviously faster, why would they want to sit on your wheel?

Well, it may be a bit different though. It could be that someone (like me) is trying to keep the pace up, I see you go by, I put in a bit extra effort to catch up with you, and then try to hold on for a short while. You're still a faster biker than I am, I just burned a bit more energy getting close to you and then trying to hold on for a bit. All just motivation, not drafting to save energy or competing.


tri_yoda wrote:
I feel like it would be more polite to slow up a little more and chat so they can catch a draft but when I'm out for a ride it's not social it's training and I'm not doing a jaw workout.

I honestly couldn't care less if someone wants to draft, even uninvited. If anything, a little fun if you want to turn the screws on them, suffer you little piggies.

I assume that if you're out training, and look like you're training, then you won't give me any such consideration. I would expect you to do your thing, and if we happen to 'coincide' for like 5 minutes then that's that. After that, maybe I'm out of steam, or maybe you're done with your repeat doing intervals and you slow down, or whatever. I would never expect anyone else to do me a favor, consciously, out of politeness, when training.

If you make me suffer then to me that's just more motivation to become a stronger biker. Plus, I think it's funny.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, it's all the same thing.

[/sarcasm]
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [MattiasNyc] [ In reply to ]
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MattiasNyc wrote:
Yeah, it's all the same thing.

[/sarcasm]

You've just been officially judged by besserwisser. Or is it schadenfreude? No, it's a guy who hides behind a German moniker that essentially means "drafting". Woe unto you.

Ian

(formerly "sneeuwaap")
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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I give them a couple of chances to pull up next to me a have a conversation, then the sprint drills start.

If they still insist on sitting on my wheel, they get a taste of their own. I put on one last sprint, swing to the very edge of the road, hard, and slam on the brakes. Then I jump on their wheel and sit on until they get pissed off.

Works every time.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [42x16ss] [ In reply to ]
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I think this thread says a lot about the mindset here.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [motd2k] [ In reply to ]
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So, for the very first time ever, this happened to me this past weekend.

I was surprised, but more surprised that it bothered me as much as it did. Exchange was probably no more than a 10sec conversation ("Hey, I don't want you on my wheel..."; "Ok, sorry, assumed it wasn't a problem....." Then I dropped back... but thought, WTF!). And it actually bothered me for the next 40mins of the ride, including changing my route to not cross paths again. Things that came to mind ...

1. Never happened to me in 20+ years of road cycling - training, racing, team rides, group rides, solo rides, casual rides, centuries, fondos, e'tapes, etc. Always been able to take a wheel and share/trade draft duties. So much so that I see it as part of the culture of cycling, certainly road riding.

2. Maybe women are bothered having someone close behind them? Certainly reasonable in any other context.

3. Newbies are bothered more, b/c not really comfortable on the bike or riding close to someone else? Although based on her kit/logo, riding style, she did not strike me as a newbie.

4. Triathletes seem to have more of a problem w/this than roadies. (evidenced by threads on this site). We were on road bikes, but maybe she was a triathlete riding her road-bike?

5. Person that's in the draft really bears more of the risk/danger in a crash, so she shouldn't really have been concerned about this. But maybe she didn't realize this?

6. Person behind really doesn't affect how hard/easy person in front wants to ride. Surge or ease up if you want to. I'll either try to hang, drop off, or go around. Either way, your ride plan can stay unaffected.

7. She made some judgments about me and deemed me "not worthy"? I ride a Cervelo-R3,, (so couldn't have been due to the bike), sporting black/white, but non-logo kit. Maybe I look out-of-shape?

8. Some folks just aren't nice.

9. Some folks get bothered by truly minor crap. And this applies to both of us.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
So, for the very first time ever, this happened to me this past weekend.

I was surprised, but more surprised that it bothered me as much as it did. Exchange was probably no more than a 10sec conversation ("Hey, I don't want you on my wheel..."; "Ok, sorry, assumed it wasn't a problem....." Then I dropped back... but thought, WTF!). And it actually bothered me for the next 40mins of the ride, including changing my route to not cross paths again. Things that came to mind ...

1. Never happened to me in 20+ years of road cycling - training, racing, team rides, group rides, solo rides, casual rides, centuries, fondos, e'tapes, etc. Always been able to take a wheel and share/trade draft duties. So much so that I see it as part of the culture of cycling, certainly road riding.

2. Maybe women are bothered having someone close behind them? Certainly reasonable in any other context.

3. Newbies are bothered more, b/c not really comfortable on the bike or riding close to someone else? Although based on her kit/logo, riding style, she did not strike me as a newbie.

4. Triathletes seem to have more of a problem w/this than roadies. (evidenced by threads on this site). We were on road bikes, but maybe she was a triathlete riding her road-bike?

5. Person that's in the draft really bears more of the risk/danger in a crash, so she shouldn't really have been concerned about this. But maybe she didn't realize this?

6. Person behind really doesn't affect how hard/easy person in front wants to ride. Surge or ease up if you want to. I'll either try to hang, drop off, or go around. Either way, your ride plan can stay unaffected.

7. She made some judgments about me and deemed me "not worthy"? I ride a Cervelo-R3,, (so couldn't have been due to the bike), sporting black/white, but non-logo kit. Maybe I look out-of-shape?

8. Some folks just aren't nice.

9. Some folks get bothered by truly minor crap. And this applies to both of us.

Someone brought up a good point earlier that I think sums up this topic- in what universe is following someone around without their permission acceptable behavior?
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [JMike] [ In reply to ]
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JMike wrote:

Someone brought up a good point earlier that I think sums up this topic- in what universe is following someone around without their permission acceptable behavior?

Well, yet again: "following someone around" includes any and all situations.

Do you think it's ok for a security guard to follow a customer around in a store when the customer is suspected of shoplifting if the customer hasn't given their permission? I'm betting a lot of people think it's fine. Or how about police doing it when they suspect something?

Ok, so we know now that it isn't just in any and all situations, so the "good point" is just making a bunch of assumptions. It's as if you're getting out of your house/apartment in a smaller town, and there on the sidewalk someone is waiting for you and then begins to follow you around. Is it legal? Probably. Is it "acceptable"? To many probably not. IS IT THE SAME AS DRAFTING WHEN TRAINING? Probably not.

As I pointed out earlier, my situation was that I was riding a well known loop in a park in NY and ended up behind someone who was clearly out to train. It wasn't someone just walking on the street. It wasn't someone just shopping. It was someone on an expensive road bike with dedicated clothes all set up to train 'clearly' for a purpose. It is NOT the same as just following someone in any situation.

Consider this: What could that person or anyone else expect once they stop training, stop their bike or leave the route (park)? They can quite reasonably expect that the person drafting will stop drafting. Why? Because the purpose is clear. When someone is following you on the sidewalk the purpose of that is NOT clear.

The point that you reiterate is far from "good" in my opinion. Superficially appealing? Yes. Actually well thought-out and "good"? Not in my opinion.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [JMike] [ In reply to ]
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JMike wrote:
- in what universe is following someone around without their permission acceptable behavior?

It's acceptable in cycling ... And when someone objects, it's jarring, because it feels so counter to the sport. That's my experience

For triathletes, maybe the objection is related to an anti-drafting sentiment. Which is a good thing. But counter to road(ie) cycling.

In most other contexts, certainly outside of sports, yes, very weird to shadow/follow someone around.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [JMike] [ In reply to ]
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JMike wrote:
Someone brought up a good point earlier that I think sums up this topic- in what universe is following someone around without their permission acceptable behavior?

Following someone closely is acceptable in swimming. If you're bothered by someone on your wheel, are you also bothered by someone drafting you in the pool?

Furthermore, there's lots of situations in sports that are acceptable as long as it happens within the sport, but not elsewhere. Perfectly ok to check someone in ice hockey. Definitely don't want to do that on a buffet line.

Obviously I'm of the view that being on someone's wheel is acceptable part-of-the-sport behavior (cycling, not triathlons)
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
JMike wrote:

Someone brought up a good point earlier that I think sums up this topic- in what universe is following someone around without their permission acceptable behavior?


Following someone closely is acceptable in swimming. If you're bothered by someone on your wheel, are you also bothered by someone drafting you in the pool?

Furthermore, there's lots of situations in sports that are acceptable as long as it happens within the sport, but not elsewhere. Perfectly ok to check someone in ice hockey. Definitely don't want to do that on a buffet line.

Obviously I'm of the view that being on someone's wheel is acceptable part-of-the-sport behavior (cycling, not triathlons)

That is not the way I read the quote I referenced. I took it to read that in any social situation, it is inappropriate to follow someone around. I think what s/he was referring to was, for instance, someone following you around the grocery store. To your point, I am not bothered by someone drafting but I do think it is inappropriate to just jump on without saying something. In addition, I agree with you it is not appropriate to body check someone on the buffet line.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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Did you catch her or did she catch you?

It doesn't happen too much to me around here, but if I'm the one to catch someone, I won't sit on their wheel. I'll go to the front, say "hi" and invite them to ride on my wheel for a bit. If they catch up with me and sit on my wheel, I'll motion them through.

Can't recall a time I've ever not known someone was on my wheel.

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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [JMike] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think this is in any way the same as following someone around. You are both using the same road and you are both entitled to do so. Yeah there's no need to get right up on someone's a$$ but if anyone has a serious problem with this they should get over themselves.

I will sometimes be out riding and end up behind someone. It is totally innocent and should not really be that big a deal. This can happen for any number of reasons, like (i) they are not riding a consistent pace, (ii) your power to weight ratios are different so you gain ground on hills but go about the same speed on flats, (iii) maybe you're trying specifically to take it easy so even though you're riding just the tiniest bit faster you don't want to spike the power to go around them, or (iv) maybe there are stop lights or something like that coming up and you just make the judgment that it's not worth it right then to try to go around.

I will never follow super close if this happens, but i will sometimes be behind someone, and if they ever turned around and told me not to I would tell them to go get stuffed (but in less polite terms).

But then again, this is NYC so maybe the etiquette is different
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Did you catch her or did she catch you?

It doesn't happen too much to me around here, but if I'm the one to catch someone, I won't sit on their wheel. I'll go to the front, say "hi" and invite them to ride on my wheel for a bit. If they catch up with me and sit on my wheel, I'll motion them through.

Can't recall a time I've ever not known someone was on my wheel.

I caught her first, and when I came up, I decided to keep going and passed by.... Said "Hi there.. passing". Noticed she didn't take my wheel, which was perfectly fine. It was about 10mins later, when she came by (no words), and I decided to close that gap to her wheel. Probably about a minute of drafting, she knew I was there, then the objection.

Also, this is on a paved trail ~45 miles each way, very popular w/cyclists and people grab and drop wheels along here all the time. So not an unusual occurrence.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [JMike] [ In reply to ]
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JMike wrote:
Someone brought up a good point earlier that I think sums up this topic- in what universe is following someone around without their permission acceptable behavior?


The same universe where wearing a pointy hat and lycra from head to toe in public is deemed acceptable, the same universe where spending 10hours a week sat in a dark garage riding nowhere is normal, the same universe where staring at a black line for 4 hours a week is fine. Honestly, I really don't think you can apply the rules of social engagement to the rules of a sporting context! There may be valid reasons for wheel sucking not being okay, but I really don't think that 'social acceptability in the real world' is relevant!
Last edited by: rmt: Oct 30, 18 13:23
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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Every explanation you managed to come up with basically amounts to "She has a problem." When you begin your argument by assuming the conclusion, you generally manage to end up there.

One person's "minor crap" is another person's major crap. I don't see a big mystery in a woman not wanting a man to follow her in any situation but regardless, there's no need to puzzle over it. Just accept that not everyone views the world as you do and move on.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [devolikewhoa83] [ In reply to ]
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devolikewhoa83 wrote:
I don't think this is in any way the same as following someone around. You are both using the same road and you are both entitled to do so. Yeah there's no need to get right up on someone's a$$ but if anyone has a serious problem with this they should get over themselves.

I will sometimes be out riding and end up behind someone. It is totally innocent and should not really be that big a deal. This can happen for any number of reasons, like (i) they are not riding a consistent pace, (ii) your power to weight ratios are different so you gain ground on hills but go about the same speed on flats, (iii) maybe you're trying specifically to take it easy so even though you're riding just the tiniest bit faster you don't want to spike the power to go around them, or (iv) maybe there are stop lights or something like that coming up and you just make the judgment that it's not worth it right then to try to go around.

I will never follow super close if this happens, but i will sometimes be behind someone, and if they ever turned around and told me not to I would tell them to go get stuffed (but in less polite terms).

But then again, this is NYC so maybe the etiquette is different

Seriously, someone asks you not to draft them and YOU tell THEM to get stuffed?? Do you get really close to people when standing in line? Would you think it appropriate to tell someone off if they asked you for space?

Surprised you still have any teeth
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
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Some women are very hinky about one on one encounters with men in any situation. I owned a business where I would do in house sales calls to sell remodeling services. Most of my customers were women and I would go out of my way to make sure they were comfortable. Still I recall one woman who would come outside in the garage to talk to me but when she went back inside the deadbolt would clunk very audibly. I thought it was weird but I wasn't offended, I just finished up my quote in the garage.

But you would think that most folks out for a ride would at least be polite to other riders in the absence of any reason to be otherwise.

"Aquabike is a swim then sleep session on aerobars ...."
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Mudge] [ In reply to ]
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if i am behind anyone, i am not drafting off of them. i am waiting patiently a time where i can go around. i am minding my own business and the only reason i am even aware of them is to pay attention so as to not hit them if they slow down, turn right, etc.

so yes, if they say a single word about not wanting me to be there, they will hear about it.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
5. Person that's in the draft really bears more of the risk/danger in a crash, so she shouldn't really have been concerned about this. But maybe she didn't realize this?

Last week someone hopped on my wheel on a bike path with a decent amount of other users . Someone's dog unexpectedly jumps in my line and I almost wreck cause I can't just slam on my brakes due to the anon dbag with unknown skills unannounced on my wheel. My friend also broke his femur and clavicle being taken out by some dipshit from behind. So pardon me if I'm the asshole that politely asks you not to ride my wheel.

I have no problem having people I know on my wheel or even people I dont know but on a group ride. I probably wouldn't have a problem with a rando if they just chatted a few minutes first.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [Fuller] [ In reply to ]
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Fuller wrote:

But you would think that most folks out for a ride would at least be polite to other riders in the absence of any reason to be otherwise.

Oh I agree. I definitely would think most folks would at least be polite enough to ask a total stranger if they were OK with sitting on their wheel.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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NYC aside, the proper course of action when catching someone is to ask if she/he minds if you hang on the wheel for a while. If the answer is no, then pass or drop back.
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Re: Strangers sucking wheel [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
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JoeO wrote:
Every explanation you managed to come up with basically amounts to "She has a problem." When you begin your argument by assuming the conclusion, you generally manage to end up there.

I don't think I assumed the conclusion, but I did get to that over the duration of the rest of the ride

JoeO wrote:
One person's "minor crap" is another person's major crap. I don't see a big mystery in a woman not wanting a man to follow her in any situation but regardless, there's no need to puzzle over it. Just accept that not everyone views the world as you do and move on.

Reasonable. I'll sometimes say to my wife, that if she's not seeing something my way, it's because she doesn't understand the situation. Ya, that usually goes over well :-)
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