Well I went back and looked at his instagram. Apparently he was catching air mountain biking back in December. That can't exactly be great even if cycling is weight bearing.

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Or vice versa? Was stress in the area the cause of his hitch?

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The hitch can not be good over the long haul. Listen, I have an ugly stride and no where near the engine Lionel has but hitches like that just compound over years, reducing running economy, increasing injury, and leading to possible further imbalances. Maybe this ends up being a blessing in disguise.

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I said it on LS's FB page when he announced pulling out of Oceanside: there is a fine line as an elite athlete on producing the best you, and going to far and getting hurt. I wish I could say I'm shocked he got hurt, but i'm not. He really does go balls to the wall 100% of the time (or so it seems). That is just hard on a body, not to mention any other outside stresses. Injuries happen, and hopefully he takes the time to recover and comes back. My advice from a wornout hockey player who is falling to pieces now: take all the time it requires to be 100% healthy. If you rush it, you will regret it.

Mentally I believe this to be his biggest challenge. IT IS HIS LIFE, and now he has to fill that void. I know what I feel like when I miss a gym session or a run, and I remember what I went through when I had an injury.... Mentally it'll be toughest.

More time for some golf (hopefully).

jan is fine.

We've Reached Decon 1!! Approaching 10 full days without a Lionel Sanders thread on the front page of Slowtwitch. I repeat - we've Reached Defcon 1!!

TALBOT WE NEED A GET WELL LIONEL VIDEO!! Even if it's throwaway footage from years past! It might cheer Lionel up, too.

I genuinely think we should create a giant cyber Get Well card on google docs, or some similar site, that we can all sign and wish him a Speedy Recovery!! Professional Triathlon coverage is going to be a lot more boring without the Colonel!!

Thanks man for the support.

I can tell you he has been pretty bummed. Not only mentioned on the thread but also put a holt to any YouTube videos. Makes me really sad.

I have not seen him since the Texas announcement and we have nothing planned to see each other anytime soon. Hopefully we can get at least an update or something to you guys. If any of you know Lionel you know he loves to race and he loves to race a lot. I can only imagine what he is going though. Not only not being able to race but not even train. The guy is addicted to this just like we are. We can only send him our love and best wishes. You’re right keep him motivated and inspired during this hard time.

Before two years ago I had never heard of sacral insufficiency fractures. Is this that part that fractures when everything else is so durable that it does not? Generally speaking how solid a diagnosis is this most of the time? Any orthos, sportsmeds docs that can chime in on this?

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

We've discussed this on other threads and considering he is likely depressed because he can't train/race, its a perfect time to talk about it again. Lionel has an addictive personality and triathlon is just a bandaid for his actual addiction. The guy likely needs real help (therapy, etc.).

This is not pink and this is not me being a negative troll online. I'm dead serious. I wish him the best.

If any of you know Lionel you know he loves to race and he loves to race a lot. I can only imagine what he is going though. Not only not being able to race but not even train. The guy is addicted to this just like we are. We can only send him our love and best wishes. You’re right keep him motivated and inspired during this hard time.


It's one of Lionel's strengths - his extraordinary durability.

In 8+ years, he's had very little if any down-time to traditional injury. To do well at a sport like triathlon particularly, the long distance events, being durable is absolutely key! Some are and some are not - It's why you see some rocket up the rankings, and then all but disappear, while others, and Lionel is a great example of this, are always there and in the hunt!

I'm assuming of course that Lionel's sacral issues are from the trauma of the tumble he took off the bike, and not from training, per say.

He will be back - in fact, this may be a blessing. It's a long tough racing season that now stretches almost 10+ months of the year for the top Pros. Being super-fit and fast NOW, might actually be more of a concern - We all know that October is when you need to be at your best!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Eh might be looking a tad bit to far. He is a professional athlete. I think anyone who can’t compete in their profession will get pretty depressed or down if they can’t do that. A relapse would be the last thing on his mind. Knowing Lionel he is sitting back and journaling every move he made and figuring out how to come back and be the best. I think there would actually be a problem if he wasn’t depressed or down that he was injured. That’s when you would need to take a step back and decide if you should even be racing professionally.

Sebastian is about to put out a video over his most recent injury. Because he was depressed and questioned retirement. Does that mean he needs to get therapy? No it means that he is a strong hearted athlete and has passion for what he does.

I recently had to serve a one year media ban from WTC events. I was most certainly depressed some nights and cried myself to sleep. Because I could not do or have access to something I was extremely passionate about. That doesn’t mean that I need therapy or counseling. Lol

I recently had to serve a one year media ban from WTC events.

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W T F

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Please tell us more that sounds interesting!

Yup start a new thread though

One of the hi-lights of my 2018 racing season was seeing LS out on course at Tremblant. Despite the fact he looked like a man suffering in one of Dante's nine circles of hell! He really is a huge inspiration. He was also very funny at the athlete briefing. I saw you hanging out after the briefing, right next to the Starbucks and I was going to say "Hello" but I was shy for whatever reason.

Looking forward to more of your content with the other athletes. Again, you're filling a void with excellent, much-needed content that's entertaining and fun to watch. Thanks again Talbot for doing what you do!! Love the behind-the-scenes of O'donnell's and the Jorgensen's.

“I recently had to serve a one year media ban from WTC events“

Why? By who? To what extent? How is this enforced?

Scott

I wouldn't say Sebbi needs to go to therapy, but this goes for any of the pros that are at the pointy end. A check-in with a Sports Psychologist is probably helpful to keep on target. I needed it after my injury.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

One of the comments I respect most about Lionel was a comment he made on TRS about the day he stops loving triathlon is the day he quits. While I really respect this comment I also don't like it some extent. The reality is that most people are in jobs and careers they hate or don't have a huge and TRUE passion for yet they do them day in and day out. The difference is that you and Lionel have a passion for what you do. People who have hobbies and are able to turn them into professions are special people to say the least, but it is also dangerous and slippery slope because it can leave few outlets. I am glad he is sitting back and journaling every move but maybe a step away from triathlon would be an even better move. From my experience with pro athletes across all sports is they have a very hard time stepping away from that specific niche but I think it would be healthy for them to do so mentally as much physically. This is one reason why I think mediation is such a powerful thing as it teaches you to sit still and quiet the mind. This can be a hard thing to do for any athlete let alone a professional endurance athlete.

I don't really want to get into the depression zone too much, but I don't think depression is 100% requirement for those that can't do their passion. I think the strongest (mentally) athletes will understand that it is all part of the process and have the skills to cope with it and channel their energy in other directions. While I don't think Lionel is going to go back down the dark road, I do think it is important to find other avenues to channel the energy whatever that might be. The reason for this is that staying in the triathlon focus can just lead to a cycle of thoughts about how that is what you want to do, but you still can't and then the sadness and depression take over.

Now obviously there are a lot of pieces to triathlon outside of just the physical training aspect. I think there is plenty to get excited about personally, and that offer lots of area for improvement. However, having never suffered from depression myself, only seriously dating someone with severe clinical depression, I believe I can honestly say that some people just have a mind wired in a completely different manner than mine. Some people just get stuck in a negative feedback loop. The mind, addiction, and brain chemicals are an interesting area and I have a special regard for high-level athletes either thru injury or retirement.

Not to get too off-topic, but did Sebastian talk at all about his injury publicly. I would be curious to see what he has to say having trained with him a few times and also really enjoying how he thinks about triathlon.

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No need to continue with this. All good now. WTC and I are ❤️ Back to helping them out and working with the livestream! :)

LOL I don't think you know how the internet works.

Didn't the suspension have something to do with rollerblading alongside pros? Maybe something about bullshit pacing?

Thomas, depression is a weird thing. I am someone that didn't (past tense, and I'll explain) really understand or believe in it. I mean, nothing is THAT BAD, right? I've heard, and know, and seen people in different stages of depression and I basically saw them as weak. It didn't make sense to me. I'm usually the life of the party and keep people smiling, but I also like my quiet time. But I was also able to see that I have a good life, a beautiful family, and all sorts of things that make "life great". Then...last year after a solid 6 months of base work, I was 2.5 months into my 4 month block for ST.G 70.3 and my kneecap dislocated randomly (seriously, I was standing and just slipped a little and BOOM it's out). This is an old hockey injury that I had done at least 5 times before, but had been 4 years since any tweak on it so I thought I was fixed. But this time...it was out ALL THE WAY. It was disgusting to look at and I've never felt so much pain. I originally thought I dislocated my entire knee when I saw everything all fucked up down there. SO...instantly it was a full service of emotions...one of which was the realization of all that hard work was DONE. The sacrifices, the hard work, the fitness I was at, the time I put in, the blah blah blah… I've never had this rush of emotions and one of them was a DEEP seeded depression. It encompassed me. It was something I had never felt and it was tearing me up. At that moment (and the following week as I recognized it but was going to make attempts to combat it) it all made sense. The horrible HORRIBLE feeling that people talk about, the suffocating feeling, the let down of everyone, just...damn, the world had ended. And again, I'm a happy guy. I love jokes. I love screwing around. I'm level headed about the good things in my life. But man...that injury really fucked with my head to a level I had never seen or understood before.

Depression is real. And to someone that has committed their life like LS has, it REALLY hurts when you get a dose of reality like this. REALLY hurts. For me, I had a good surrounding and recognized it and openly talked about it as it had me concerned and I wanted people to know where I was at because I was scared, and I wanted their help with dealing with it. It is hard.

I actually wrote LS on FB (though i'm sure he doesn't check that crap personally) and basically said he should still come on out to St.G, take in the scene, be LS the star Triathlete, and play some golf (it's a great area for golf). I'm sure he has a million other obligations, but you never know what getting out of the house and getting some sunshine can do. Because, as you said, maybe this is a good thing...he just needs to see that, and hear that, and understand that...and with that, he'll have that rejuvenated hunger for Tri and getting back, and healing up. Or at least I hope he does.

(sorry about the random, long ass babble session on depression and shit...but yeah)

I don't want to delve too much further into this topic because I know that some people are very sensitive to things and I can be very blunt in general and I don't want to offend anyone on this particular topic. Your idea may make some sense about Lionel and STG, but it could also backfire. I don't really know and I think it is very individual. I used the word "clinical" for a very specific reason in my last post, because I get it. I don't want to pretend I am some sort of sage, but when you live with someone who has severe clinical depression, and has been suicidal to the point of acting it out, well it really opens your eyes. In my mind I may have thought to ask the person just to "snap out of it" before I ever knew them. And that wouldn't necessarily be insensitive, just me being completely ignorant. Knowing the person, snapping out of it just isn't/wasn't an option.

Now everyone in life experiences ups and downs, some bouts of stress, anxiety, fear, doubt, self-confidence and that is normal but for others it is a real illness/injury that they just can't shake. I would never expect someone to open up, and I certainly have no idea about Lionel and wouldn't discuss it regardless, but it is hard to be a professional athlete when you have kids and fans, parents, and sponsors, and supporters who really want to see you race and win and you feel powerless in the moment and you "feel" like you are letting people down. I use the word "feel" specifically because I think elite athletes at their core often times magnify this, sometimes irrationally so. The reality is nobody cares as much the athletes themselves. They put the pressure on themselves.

Me personally I am extroverted introvert and I definitely need my own time to recharge batteries too. I would guess that it isn't all the uncommon on here. I'm sorry to hear about your struggles but I am glad that it sounds like you are on the right side of it all. Have a great race next week. And if Lionel, Talbot, you or anyone else ever needs to talk I am always here.

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T, I gotcha. I agree. And thanks.

I hope he recovers well.

I think depression is a term thrown around too easily. We all get sad, or depressed. If your parent dies and you are sad, that is normal. If three to six months pass and you are still sad and not getting out of bed, maybe we are now talking depression (depressive disorder). This is vs an “acute adjustment reaction.” Some people are more prone to depression, or anxiety or both. We are all different and genetics plays a role, as does experience, and supports.

Exercise releases endorphins. It makes us feel better. It helps with pain, sleep, etc. There is a proven link between exercise and improved mood. It can be a form of therapy.

It is also a form of stimulation for people the crave stimulation. Here is where adhd/add can play a role.

It can also fire some of the same pathways as addiction. It can be a healthy option in recovery.

Exercise benefits almost every aspect of out physiology and health... as long as it is not to excess (harm).

Maybe mood issues play a role. Maybe addictions play a role. Or maybe LS is just one motivated guy who just had his world turned upside down by injury. Type A personalities do not do well with injury and incapacity.

I should know, i am not aware of being depressed, anxious, (ok, maybe trending to add), or having substance use disorders, but i have an addictive personality in that when i go in... i go all in (hobbies for example). I dont sit around and i am used to being busy and being 100% to whatever i put my mind to. In the last year i have struggles with chronic recurring injury... and it sucks. It sucks that for the first time in 38 years, I am not able to go 100% at work, play, or family. I don't think i am depressed, but it is tough at times. I sympathize with LS, because anyone like him is a 150% guy. So dealing with that must be tough...

Last summer I broke my clavicle in a cycling accident. Well it was more than that, but we'll leave it there. My identity for a very long time was someone who was extremely physical. I played Rugby and did Triathlon at the same time (horrible idea btw). I have diagnosed anxiety from that event, but honestly it took a Sports Psych telling me that I was going to be fine and that I responded correctly to my situation. It doesn't always need to be a clinical person, but these people exist for a purpose and talking with hime over a few sessions helped a ton.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.