I've run Schwalbe Pro One tires on my road bike (with DA C24 TL wheels) for just about years now, and have gotten maybe 4 or 5 total unsealable flats in that time. Small punctures sealed up fine, and the flats came from big cuts that orange seal couldn't handle. When those happened, I just put in a regular tube, pumped it up (which re-seated the bead easily with a CO2 cartridge) and rode away like it was a regular clincher. Least trouble I've ever had. The Pro One tires aren't the longest lasting, but while they're in service, they have been pretty great all around, including racing and training. Thin tread though, so not ideal as a commuter tire.

Just started running the Vittoria Corsa Speed G+ tubeless tires on the TT bike in April, but instead of running tubeless, I decided to try latex tubes for the first time, just out of curiosity. After seeing a buddy at the state TT event last weekend get a puncture just before the start (and his sealant healed it), I'm wondering if it was perhaps the wrong idea for me to run tubes when the wheels (Hed +) and the tires are both tubeless ready. Time will tell. Will eventually switch over to tubeless on the TT bike as well I'm sure.

Good grief ...what nonsense. I recently received a set of wheels shipped to the USA from England (Hunt Wheels) with Schwalbe Pro One tubeless tires already mounted and with sealant. PSI had been rolled back to about 40 and they arrived all set for me to mount them up, pump them up and ride.

I've been riding tubeless since road tubeless first emerged on the scene quite a number of years ago now. Y'all sound like a bunch of morons who don't know how to turn a barrel adjuster to fix a clicking rear derailleur. Tubeless isn't rocket science, but it's different. And if you take a little time and figure out what you're doing, you'll find it's really a very good alternative. IMHO, there are a number of CRAP tubeless tires out there. I was fortunate that I found some really good ones really early on. IRC makes excellent tubeless tires and they're my usual go-to brand. I've never been a fan of Schwalbe until the Pro Ones. They're very nice tires.

In a decade of riding tubeless and riding somewhere in the 8,000 to 10,000 mile per year range, I've had two flats. One was a huge screw that punched clear through the tire both going in and exiting. It was game over. The other was messy, with sealant spraying all over the frame. But it sealed and it got me home. I'm sure there were many others I don't even know happened. The sealant did its job and I rode on.

I never see any rolling resistance data on the IRC rrbc tubeless setup I like to run. I have a lot of bikes and some aren't set up tubeless ... in which case I normally run Conti 4000 S ii with latex tubes. The Contis feel like slumming it.

I'm sad for all of you who have given road tubeless a half-assed try and written it off. It's not that hard and it IS that good!

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Stay aero my friends.

2 flats in a decade... I'd run tubeless too.

were is the rolleyes emoji

I for one and probably many others did not half ass the attempt. I have not completely bin'd it, but am thinking about when and where it would be beneficial to me.

I'm definitely not this gung-ho about road tubeless, but your post reminds me a little of myself when I hear someone is still running tubed cyclocross or MTB tires.

The installation process is not the deterrent and should never be- in any tubeless application. As mentioned in my original post, I had trusted Hutchinson road tubeless, and when their new tire (Fusion 3) was not as robust as past versions, I just went back to training on tubed road tires.

It's not even Hutchinson's fault, except for not making it clear that they took a robust tire capable of handling dirt roads (Fusion 2) and turned it into a road-racey-ish tire (Fusion 3) that should have had a separate name altogether.

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-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels

That's one thing that really limits tubeless suitability for road. Thorns and staples rarely puncture latex tubes anyway. I usually get flats from sidewall cuts.

I'm not so sure about that. But my biggest problem with latex was always if there was *any* cut or hole and the tube survived whatever object it was, once that object got ejected, the tube would just bubble on out and explode. While butyl can handle a pretty good size hole or cut before you need to boot it, latex can find it's way through anything larger than a pin prick.

while in general agreement i beg to differ about the "installation process". when you can't mount a tire with your hand, that's bad. when it takes an act of congress to mount/dismount a tire with multiple levers, that's no go. and, there is virtually no tubed tire i can't mount on any tubed rim with my hands. so (vittoria) i'm sorry but there is a limit.

that's as to the tire. otherwise, if i need 110psi in a tire to get a 50psi tire to pop up into the bead, sorry, i'm taking a pass. no, we aren't all the way there. but, yeah, when it's good it's good.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

True. But goatheads, staples, tacks, and random little wires are pin pricks IME. I can pull them out and keep riding.

Shimano Dura Ace tubeless ready (aluminum) wheels and Velocity Super V (tubeless converted with Stans tape) were both pretty easy.

2 levers to get the tire on, 1 co2 cartridge to get the bead to pop. Spin it around to slosh sealant around, finish inflating.

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-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels

question: tell me your history with mounting tires without any levers.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I run Pro One in 700x28mm or Specialized S Works 700x28mm.
Both feel fairly fast and ride nice. The S Works might be a bit fragile though.

I would love to see the Vittoria G+ in a 700X28 and 700x30.

If the tire fits really loosely I won't use levers, but otherwise I do.

My hands are fully functional, but I've messed up fingers in a couple crashes- I probably don't have all the strength in them that I should.

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-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels

My own personal experience with road tubeless is that if you need to use a tire lever to get the bead on or off, chances are it won't seal.... or at least it won't seal without a lot of added sealant, cursing, and failed attempts.

Edit: what do you think about the idea of rim tape with "compressible" edges to help facilitate the seal when the bead is slightly stretched and/or oversized?

you're asking the wrong guy.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Look out, everyone, we've got a badass here!

I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. Please. Teach me. :rolleyes:

I am in the Tom A. court of waiting for a real data driven evidence based benefit of tubeless for road and tri. Not talking about gravel, I don't live in an area with goatheads. I have about 1 flat every 2-3 years on my road wheels. I am riding 3 year old latex tubes in my race wheels now.

My mountain bikes which are tubeless so far have needed new sealant each year because the bead seems to loose the ability to seal, and when I add it there is stans boogers lining the tires. No thank you for my road tires.... I have never weighed them but each time you put in new sealant you are adding 50 grams per tire.

If I were a tire manufacturer I would be totally frothing at the mouth aroused at the prospect of converting the masses to tubeless. Mountain bike tires have gone up in price minimally 50% since the tubeless revolution. You are looking at $95 each for tubeless mountain tires. I am sure we will be paying the same for road tires.

I am sure once the ceos and cfos of bike tire companies figure they can grow sales by 50% with a 2-3 years of marketing hype and BS we will all be on tubeless whether they ever prove a benefit or not.

Maybe tire prices just went up? Here are some MSRP's for good road tires, TLR and just plain clinchers:

$75 Conti GP 4000SII
$80 Conti GP TT
$80 (t) Schwalbe Pro One
$70 (t) Hutchinson Fusion 5G
$75 Michelin Pro4 Comp
$79 (t) Vittoria Corsa Speed
$74 (t) Zipp Tangente RT25
$74 Conti Force
$80 S-Works Turbo Cotton
$100 (t) S-Works Turbo Tubeless:

None of those tires are exactly cheap, but I don't see any real pattern except the one outlier from Specialized.

Of course you can get 25-50% off those MSRP prices by avoiding your LBS. :) (except Specialized)

Sealant is pretty cheap too. You can get a quart of Stan's for like $25, or roughly the price of 2 latex tubes. A quart should last years for road applications.

I buy my turbo cottons when it's buy one get the second for 50% off..(which was very recently) ..ends up being about 65 each after taxes

Interestingly enough...in that Cyclingtips podcast I mentioned above, Caley Fretz explained that one of the main reasons he doesn't run tubeless on his road racing bike is because he uses it so infrequently, it would be a PITA keeping on top if the sealant and making sure it doesn't dry out, and especially not all in one spot in the tire.

That comment made me chuckle a bit, because that's basically the same reason I DON'T run tubeless on my full-suspension MTB. I use it so infrequently, it's infinitely easier to just run latex tubes in the 26" wheels. You can run pressures just as low as with tubeless with little worry about pinch flatting. In fact, I've NEVER flatted a latex tube in a MTB tire. Thank science 26" latex tubes are still being made! The fact that latex tubes aren't made in 650B size really makes me hesitant about committing to a wheel set (for either the MTB, or the "gravel" bike) with rims that size.

Right now, about the only bike I desire to run tubeless on is my "all-road" rig...but, that's because with the more off-road wheel set, I'm typically running pressures as low as I can and so pinch flats become a hazard...while with my pavement/commuter setup, the sealant can handle the rare goat head or "Michelin wire" puncture. I use both of those wheel sets on a multiple-rides-per-week basis though.

If I rode the FS MTB more though, I'd most likely run it tubeless, if anything because puncture repairs with plugs are so easy.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I'm always surprised by this statement from people - that sealant dries up... It does, I know that, and I've seen it happen, but in my experience it's take a couple of years to happen on a bike I'm not using regularly. Normally in that timeframe I would have probably replaced the tyres at least once so it's a non issue. I just don't get that stance, how quick does it dry up for others?

My experience with tubeless; been running it in MTB for 10 years. In that time I've had one puncture that didn't seal, and the tyre in that case was destroyed.
Converted my CX bike a couple of years ago, non "TR" rims, running tubeless ready tyres, 15min install and never looked back. Not one puncture.
Converted my road wheels (non tubeless Enve 3.4) running Schwalbe Pro Ones and have not had one puncture. Pre tubeless I'd get perhaps 6-10 punctures per year. We don't have goatheads in NZ, but our roads are covered in glass and other random shit.
As to setting them up, yeah setting up a Mavic Aksium was a royal PITA, took me 20mins with no compressor. The Enves were a dream. As were my MTB wheels (Wheelworks Flites which are TR) no levers required at all. My takeaway has been that quality wheels make it easier to set up for sure.
For me though, tubeless means way less stops on the side of the road for punctures which has to be a win. And the Schwalbe Pro Ones ride awesomely around 65/70 PSI. Grippy, feel fast, comfy, whats to loose..?

This has been my experience in MTB tubeless: 0-12 months - perfect, no flats or hassles. 12-18 months, still good but some burps on hard hits / corners. 18+ Months - tires don't hold pressure well. I have 3 MTB wheelsets I circulate between 2 bikes.

I ride New England single track which is rock / root and typically there are technical sections in every mile or so.

Yeah, I think what happens is people leave the bike so long that pressure drops and the bead breaks. For whatever reason, sealant exposed to ambient air flow/pressure tends to dry much faster than pressurized sealant. It also seems to do better when it's moved around vs. pooled in one place where it "sets". Then they come back to their bike and find a puddle of dried sealant at the bottom.

So tubeless is for people who ride their bikes. :)

I'm on the fence as far as trying out a tubeless setup and this is exactly my experience with tubed tires for the last 20 years; a flat every other month or so which is always from something REALLY small like a piece of glass or a staple. If a tubeless setup will prevent these/seal them up then I would go years without a flat which would be great.

^ a staple maybe... piece of glass " it depends" I would certainly not count on it in my experience.

Well...let me relate a recent experience with a tire I have ridden nearly every day. Just last week I pulled a Compass Snoqualmie Pass EL off of the front wheel of an American Classic 101 set I had been using for commuting. That tire has been on there for over a year, and I had added sealant (~100ml) only around a month or 2 ago. At the time I had mounted a brand new standard version of the same tire (not Extra Light) on the rear, and topped off the front while doing so.

Anyway, I was quite surprised that ALL of the sealant in the front tire had solidified. It was evenly distributed around the casing (since I used that wheel quite often) but...it was completely dry. The bead had not been broken, and it held air very well...same as the rear. Interestingly, when I checked the rear, it still had liquid sealant remaining, but probably could stand to be topped off a bit. This is with Orange Seal, BTW.

So...I guess it depends on the tire, and its porosity as well, and perhaps the particular sealant. The EL versions of the Compass tires don't have quite as much rubber in the sidewalls as the standards.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/