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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [jens] [ In reply to ]
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Why do you ask? From the pictures on the website, I can't see any aero difference between them.
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [iamuwere] [ In reply to ]
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iamuwere wrote:
Why do you ask? From the pictures on the website, I can't see any aero difference between them.


lenght of spindel ( axis) speedplay has 50 53 and 56 mm spindles

http://www.pb3coaching.com
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [iamuwere] [ In reply to ]
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iamuwere wrote:
Why do you ask? From the pictures on the website, I can't see any aero difference between them.

I have a suspicion. Most of the Aero pedals I see sold have the titanium spindle which is 50mm. The steel and cromoly ones are 53.
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [jens] [ In reply to ]
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Has anyone bought these? I think they look cool

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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
Has anyone bought these? I think they look cool
I did. I got them for the low stack height tho. Bought 4hole shoes for them so no 3-hole adapter needed. I'm used to Coombe pedals so am used to very low stack height. When I got new tri shoes, I suddenly had problems with the Coombe cleats coming off the pedals while I was running with the bike in/out of transition. I misdiagnosed the problem and started looking for a cleat alternative. Deciding to let stack height drive the show, I got the Look Zero Aero's for the tri-bike.

Their fine. I don't have strong feelings about them one way or another. I've been on Coombe's for prob 20yrs so I just don't have much measuring stick with which to evaluate the Zero Aero against. I do like the fact that their easy to walk in tho. Rumor is that standard Speedplays are not so good in that regard.

I'm not sold on the whole aero thing. Almost everyone rides with their heels up a bit so the cleat is inevitably tucked in behind the shoe bottom. Hard to imagine the exact shape of the cleat matters much to the air flow hitting the tops of your toes and instep.

"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I bought them and tested them at A2: no difference between my flappy bont tri shoes + regular speedplay cleats and my monocoque carbon shoes from Simmons and the speedplay aero cleats. I'm likely an outlier though.
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
I bought them and tested them at A2: no difference between my flappy bont tri shoes + regular speedplay cleats and my monocoque carbon shoes from Simmons and the speedplay aero cleats. I'm likely an outlier though.

I don't think you are. The dimples and all that other stuff do jack****. The only "improvement" is the shorter spindles and effectively narrower q factor. That works for people like me whose feet and legs want to be really close. It probably doesn't work for the average guy whose legs want to be further apart.
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
I bought them and tested them at A2: no difference between my flappy bont tri shoes + regular speedplay cleats and my monocoque carbon shoes from Simmons and the speedplay aero cleats. I'm likely an outlier though.


I don't think you are. The dimples and all that other stuff do jack****. The only "improvement" is the shorter spindles and effectively narrower q factor. That works for people like me whose feet and legs want to be really close. It probably doesn't work for the average guy whose legs want to be further apart.

Not sure about the dimples. Agree completely about the shorter spindles being the main contributor. Especially for triathletes. Triathletes seem more likely to ride toe-down. My suspicion is that as one moves forward, the position rotates around the bottom bracket. If one keeps the same ankle angles, the heel is gonna come up and toe will point down.
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
I bought them and tested them at A2: no difference between my flappy bont tri shoes + regular speedplay cleats and my monocoque carbon shoes from Simmons and the speedplay aero cleats. I'm likely an outlier though.

I don't think you are. The dimples and all that other stuff do jack****. The only "improvement" is the shorter spindles and effectively narrower q factor. That works for people like me whose feet and legs want to be really close. It probably doesn't work for the average guy whose legs want to be further apart.

Recently put some zero's on my bike, didn't know how I should set the cleat's q-factor component (switching from spd) so I put them in the middle, tightened it a little & rode gently on the trainer for a minute.

At the end of that I took a look at the bottom of the shoe & saw I'd drifted as wide as possible.

I'm curious if this wider-q will help power/comfort as training ramps up, but do wonder what the areo impact could be.
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [FatandSlow] [ In reply to ]
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FatandSlow wrote:
jens wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
I bought them and tested them at A2: no difference between my flappy bont tri shoes + regular speedplay cleats and my monocoque carbon shoes from Simmons and the speedplay aero cleats. I'm likely an outlier though.


I don't think you are. The dimples and all that other stuff do jack****. The only "improvement" is the shorter spindles and effectively narrower q factor. That works for people like me whose feet and legs want to be really close. It probably doesn't work for the average guy whose legs want to be further apart.


Not sure about the dimples. Agree completely about the shorter spindles being the main contributor. Especially for triathletes. Triathletes seem more likely to ride toe-down. My suspicion is that as one moves forward, the position rotates around the bottom bracket. If one keeps the same ankle angles, the heel is gonna come up and toe will point down.


I'm aware this an older thread, but since I consider swapping my spd sl for zero aeros because I hope for an aero advantage, I chime in in the discussion.

What does Jens mean with "all of the improvement is about the q factor"? Two possibilities:

1) If he refers to the improvement of speedplay zero aero towards other brand pedals he missed that post 1 of this thread is a comparison between two speedplay systems.
2) It can also be that he alleges that the normal zero system in the test has a bigger q factor than the zero aero system, caused by different spindle lengths and/or different cleat adjustments.

Considering possibilty 2), it seems indeed that the test of Post #1 is somewhat useless without the certainty that the q-factor was the same in the test with the normal zero system and the zero aero system.

Edit: I found the answer in the original test protocol

http://www.ero-sports.com/...lay-zero-aero-pedals

from which post #1 of this thread is only an excerpt. The spindles always had the same length. The q-factor can thus not be responsible for the difference in Watts.
Last edited by: longtrousers: Nov 29, 18 8:13
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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I will probably buy a normal pedal with a zero aero cleat, since that's 50 € cheaper than the zero aero pedals and I guess the aero properties are most influenced by the cleats. With dual side entrance advantage.
The stainless steel have stock 53 mm spindles, which should be 4 mm narrower on every side than my spd sl. When I chafe my knuckels I'm only half f***** because you can buy 56 or 59 spindles.

Edit: crazy that the thread between pedals and cranks are still universal.
Last edited by: longtrousers: Nov 29, 18 8:45
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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longtrousers wrote:
I will probably buy a normal pedal with a zero aero cleat, since that's 50 € cheaper than the zero aero pedals and I guess the aero properties are most influenced by the cleats.

That is the question I still have; how much of the 3-5 W is the pedal and how much is the cleat? Using the aero walkable cleat is a no-brainer. But the aero pedal comes with tradeoffs in cost, single-sided entry, and ease of maintenance. I need to get new pedals for next year and am leading toward the standard zeros with aero cleats.
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]
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RangerGress wrote:
BryanD wrote:
Has anyone bought these? I think they look cool

I did. I got them for the low stack height tho. Bought 4hole shoes for them so no 3-hole adapter needed. I'm used to Coombe pedals so am used to very low stack height. When I got new tri shoes, I suddenly had problems with the Coombe cleats coming off the pedals while I was running with the bike in/out of transition. I misdiagnosed the problem and started looking for a cleat alternative. Deciding to let stack height drive the show, I got the Look Zero Aero's for the tri-bike.

Their fine. I don't have strong feelings about them one way or another. I've been on Coombe's for prob 20yrs so I just don't have much measuring stick with which to evaluate the Zero Aero against. I do like the fact that their easy to walk in tho. Rumor is that standard Speedplays are not so good in that regard
I'm not sold on the whole aero thing. Almost everyone rides with their heels up a bit so the cleat is inevitably tucked in behind the shoe bottom. Hard to imagine the exact shape of the cleat matters much to the air flow hitting the tops of your toes and instep.

I think the moral of the story is.....ride with a flatter foot, get the top part of your foot out of the wind, get a more aero cleat/peddles, and you save watts.
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [Scottxs] [ In reply to ]
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Scottxs wrote:
I think the moral of the story is.....ride with a flatter foot, get the top part of your foot out of the wind, get a more aero cleat/peddles, and you save watts.

I makes sense that riding with a flat foot would be better, *and* that it doesn't take much downward foot tilt for the entire pedal to be drafting behind the shoe. In that case I can't imagine that the pedal would make much difference.

How many people ride with the foot so flat that the pedal is important?
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
I makes sense that riding with a flat foot would be better, *and* that it doesn't take much downward foot tilt for the entire pedal to be drafting behind the shoe. In that case I can't imagine that the pedal would make much difference.

How many people ride with the foot so flat that the pedal is important?

On the down stroke I do. Pic from IM Cozumel:

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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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longtrousers wrote:


Edit: crazy that the thread between pedals and cranks are still universal.

Don’t jinx us lol
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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Fair enough.

Another sanity check is how much frontal area we are talking about. 2cm x 8cm per pedal, 32cm^2 for 2 pedals at the most. .0032m^2. If you have a good Tri CdA of ~.22m^2, that could possibly be 1.5% of your total drag, if it was exposed 100% of the time with a Cd of 1. But it isn't exposed to frontal airflow all the time for anyone (never for most), and the aero pedals aren't going to eliminate that drag, only reduce it some amount. I'm thinking that no more than a few tenths of a % (lets say 0.5% max) isn't feasible even for someone who pedals flat footed.
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Hey now, 0.5% of 200W is still 1W. Many anal mods discussed in this forum are in that range :P
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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BigBoyND wrote:
Hey now, 0.5% of 200W is still 1W. Many anal mods discussed in this forum are in that range :P

I don't think I want any of those mods...

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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I actually LOL'd for real...
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Made my night
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:
Hey now, 0.5% of 200W is still 1W. Many anal mods discussed in this forum are in that range :P

I don't think I want any of those mods...

Have you ever tried cycling with a wedgie? All the pros are doing it...

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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:
Hey now, 0.5% of 200W is still 1W. Many anal mods discussed in this forum are in that range :P


I don't think I want any of those mods...

If I gave you one that gave you 15W, I bet you'd secretly try it out.
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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longtrousers wrote:
I will probably buy a normal pedal with a zero aero cleat, since that's 50 € cheaper than the zero aero pedals and I guess the aero properties are most influenced by the cleats. With dual side entrance advantage.

If you flying mount, then your shoes won't need to come out of the pedals.
(but in that case you could also just cover up the underside of the cleat with a layer of tape or fill it with putty...)

Quote:
Edit: crazy that the thread between pedals and cranks are still universal.



JasoninHalifax wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:
Hey now, 0.5% of 200W is still 1W. Many anal mods discussed in this forum are in that range :P


I don't think I want any of those mods...


Last edited by: MattyK: Nov 29, 18 16:02
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Re: Results from Speedplay Zero Aero Test [MattyK] [ In reply to ]
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MattyK wrote:
longtrousers wrote:
I will probably buy a normal pedal with a zero aero cleat, since that's 50 € cheaper than the zero aero pedals and I guess the aero properties are most influenced by the cleats. With dual side entrance advantage.

If you flying mount, then your shoes won't need to come out of the pedals.
(but in that case you could also just cover up the underside of the cleat with a layer of tape or fill it with putty...)

No I'm a cleat-runner in T1 and indeed the only times when pedal entrance is important is in T1. In training it does not matter at all. After T1 you're in stress and just want to enter the pedal and not hassle around. I can imagine that a normal dual side pedal is easier to enter than the zero aero pedal where you have to take care the right side is above.
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