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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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Stack: 590 mm Reach: 445 mm


TizzleDK,

I'm on a mission that is greater than just prescribing Canyons. I'm an educator first and foremost. So, please hang in there for this tid bit. The terms Stack and Reach refer to a place on the frame (top of the head tube). This is a critical number for "mortal bikes" - any bike that uses a normal stem, like the Shiv that was in the list of options that your fitter offered you. Pad Stack and Pad Reach is a very different number and the one we MUST use for super bikes. I dug it out of your fit sheet and tweaked the Pad X as it was to the rear and Canyon measures to center.

Your Pad Y (Pad Stack) of 740 and Pad X (Pad Reach) of 555. Now, let's be clear, you're tall. Your saddle height is 887mm and your arm pad drop is 137mm. That's a bit more than 15% - which I'd consider a healthy drop....and...with all of this taken into consideration. The Canyon Speedmax SLX won't come up to meet you. The max Pad Y on the large is 685mm - a full 55mm lower than your number.

The Canyon Speedmax CF however will do it. You would be on an size XL with almost the max spacers to get to 740. And for the Pad X, you'd have to remove the 90mm stem that comes stock on that bike and put on a 110 stem to get out to 555mm.

Your big worry was the max seat height. I'm not even 100% sure that the XL will deliver out to 887. Let me send a note to the engineers in Germany to confirm.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian, thanks for taking the time to do this and educate me. I will wait, I have prepared myself mentally in case none of the Canyons fit me and I have to look elsewhere or stick with what I have. And yes I am quite tall...built like Jan Frodeno (tall, very long legs and short torso) with the none of the ability to swim, bike or run like him. :P

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

Question for you. Does Canyon USA offer a tilt kit / angled spacer kit for the new CF SLX? Trying to figure out the best way to add some tilt to my set up.

Thanks!

-------
Anders
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [AMC] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Ian,

Question for you. Does Canyon USA offer a tilt kit / angled spacer kit for the new CF SLX? Trying to figure out the best way to add some tilt to my set up.



Anders,
Yes. Canyon USA has a tilt kit for the 2019 Speedmax SLX. You can choose 0 degree (no tilt) or a 7 degree tilt and nothing in between.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Mar 20, 19 7:07
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I ride a speedmax cf -18. Would itt be possible to rotate the j5-armpadbrackets (supersonic brackets) 180 degrees and switch sides to get a couple of centimetres extra armpad reach. It looks like it would be possible, has anyone tried it? I would like to keep the original stem just based on aestetics...
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [superdea] [ In reply to ]
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I ride a speedmax cf -18. Would itt be possible to rotate the j5-armpadbrackets (supersonic brackets) 180 degrees and switch sides to get a couple of centimetres extra armpad reach.

superdea,

Yes and yes! Just pull the extensions using that super smart/easy clamp screw and then remove the arm rests. You can flop the clap to the other side of the bar and get a bit reach out of it when you reassemble.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian, thanks for offering all of your guidance. After 9 years on a SC Gen 1. It is time to move on, it is M. I had a bike fit done about 6 years ago and my mobility is still good. When I bought the bike the local shop did a quick fit but upon going and getting a professional fit my reach wasn't long enough and my stack was a bit high, but we made some adjustments and the fit is very comfortable. When the fit was done Retul, the fitter said that a small would have fit me better. I can't speak to this truth just what he said.

I did the PPS on Canyon and they said a Small, but after reading your posts you weren't sold on that system so some advice would be greatly appreciated.


Currently on my SC my
stack is 591(center of BB to top of pads)
reach is 500(center of BB to center of pads)
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [lonniecdams] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Ian, thanks for offering all of your guidance. After 9 years on a SC Gen 1. It is time to move on.....

I did the PPS on Canyon and they said a Small.....some advice would be greatly appreciated.

Currently...my
stack is 591(center of BB to top of pads)
reach is 500(center of BB to center of pads)

lonniecadams,

Just to be clear.... I think the Canyon PPS is VERY GOOD. However, no formula is as good as a pre-fit by an educated, experienced fitter with a dynamic fit bike. And, no formula is as good as a bike that's been ridden and tweaked and feels great. The proof is in your post: you had good fit and then later went a bit longer and lower in your position- no formula will come close to the circumstances that have lead you to your position. It's great!!

On the 2019 Canyon Speedmax SLX, you are absolutely a small. And you're a small with a short stem, with pads one hole shy of all the way forward, and 25mm of arm pad pedestal. You are in a PERFECT spot on that bike as it comes stock.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian, thanks for the feedback. As far as the short stem, I did just get out of the water and it was a late spring race. Thanks again!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [lonniecdams] [ In reply to ]
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Shrinkage....the struggle is real.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Todd,
The Large comes with a 90mm stem and that'll be right for you. The areobars are for sure gonna be Profile-Design, and while I'm not sure which model (Subsonic or otherwise) I can tell you that it's SUPER easy to remove the pad cushion (velcro) and move the arm cups fore or aft to get the cockpit perfect. I think if the pads are one hole forward of the "farthest-back-they-can-go" position it'll be right on 493. You're also gonna want to be 7mm lower than the max height. I'm not 100% sure how you're going to do that only because I haven't had my hands on the CF yet.

Ian
Morning Ian,
I had one follow up question I was hoping you could help with. Re-pasting my measurements here in case they are needed.

Quote:
Measurements are;
Height: 184cm
Weight: 81kg
Inseam: 89.2cm
Torso: 60cm
Arm: 64cm
Pad reach: 493mm
Pad stack: 707mm

I'm pulling the trigger on a size L Speedmax CF 8.0 SL which I have no doubt will fit me well as-is. However, I'm contemplating replacing the stock stem with the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate so that I can couple that with the Aeria Hydration system. If I swap the 90mm stock stem with the 100mm PD stem do you think I will still be able to achieve the desirable coordinates?

Thanks again for all the help.

-Todd
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [twheat18] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I'm pulling the trigger on a size L Speedmax CF 8.0 SL which I have no doubt will fit me well as-is. However, I'm contemplating replacing the stock stem with the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate so that I can couple that with the Aeria Hydration system. If I swap the 90mm stock stem with the 100mm PD stem do you think I will still be able to achieve the desirable coordinates?

Thanks again for all the help.

Todd,

This is a great idea. When you add Profile's Aeria system up front you'll have the cables disappear, the built in hydration system - it basically becomes a super bike. Now, about the priority: fit.

My short answer is YES I think you'll be able to achieve your coordinates. I'm just not 100% sure what hole you arm pads will be in. I have both a Profile Subsonic and a Aearia Ultimate here in my fit studio and I just inspected them to confirm my suspicions. The arm bracket on the Subsonic has only 2 rows of mount holes while the Aeria Ultimate has 4 - double the fore-aft movement. And it seems that the bracket for the Aeria allows the pads to come back over the top of the base bar more than the Subsonic and that's the direction you'll be wanting to go. You'll have to measure it out and remount the arm pads once or twice to nail the number but I'm certain you'll get there.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Fantastic, thanks again for your input and help Ian! The bike is on order and I can't wait to put some miles on it!

-Todd
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian, thanks so much for doing this thread!

I'm looking at getting a Speedmax CF 7.0. Canyon's tool said I would be a medium but I'd like to be sure. It will be my first tri bike so I have no idea what my Pad Y and Pad X are, but here is all the other info I have in cm's:

Inseam: 83
Trunk: 65
Forearm: 34
Arm: 60
Thigh: 60.25
Lower leg: 54.5
Sternal notch: 147.5
Total height: 177.8

Weight: 76 KG

Thanks so much

Matt
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [matthewg] [ In reply to ]
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Matt,

It's your first tri bike but do you own a road bike now? If so could you measure your seat height from the center of the bottom bracket (this is where the crank mounts and spins around) to the top of your saddle roughly in the middle. LMK, Ian
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Yes I have a road bike. When I had a fit done a few years ago the distance from BB to saddle was 74 cm. But now I've moved the seat back and down a bit so it's just under 73 cm.

Matt
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [matthewg] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I'm looking at getting a Speedmax CF 7.0. It will be my first tri bike so I have no idea what my Pad Y and Pad X are, but here is the info I have....

Matt,

Your morphology is created with a bit more inseam - not a ton. And if you're pretty normal with no outstanding oddities I think your Pad Y is roughly 624 and your Pad X is pretty close to 477.

Your new Canyon CF should be a medium for sure. You're gonna land right in the sweet spot of that bike so there will be room to move. It's going to come with an 80mm stem which is perfect for your fit on this bike. If my numbers are right you'll need 15mm of spacer under the stem and pads one hole forward of the closest-to-you setting.

Enjoy!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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TizzleDK,

I just heard back today (moments before your note) and the max seat height on the CF XL is 911cm. You got it made!!!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Amazing, thanks so much for the valuable info and quick responses Ian! It is definitely a big help!

Matt
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Woohoo! That's great news! Thanks Ian!

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian just a quick follow up question. Since there doesn't seem to be any CF 7.0 models in stock I was looking at the SPEEDMAX CF WMN 8.0 model. From what I understand the differences in terms of frame dimensions are pretty minimal. Do you think this is a model that would work with my sizing as well?

Thanks

Matt
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

first thanks for this great thread for Speedmax fans.

I would like to share my current bike fit numbers with you. I achieved my current fit a year ago via local Guru Fit Studio, but I raised my pads by 10mm and changed the saddle from PS 1.1 to stock Fizik Mistica . I am struggling a bit with saddle discomfort, not sure if its the saddle itself or wrong saddle coordinates [height and setback]. Overall the fit feels pretty ok, but have not tried it yet beyond 2.5-3hrs ride.


Speedmax CF , size L

Seat height 790mm (measured from BB do the approx.middle of the saddle Fizik Mistica), but normally I sit on the front half of it, which makes ca. 785mm
Pad Stack 695mm
Pad Reach 510mm
Pad drop 82mm
Pad c-c 24cm
Armrest kit is PD F-35 /stock ones/, installed in the most rear holes
Aero extensions Zipp Vuka Evo 110
Saddle setback - 30mm behind BB

my height 185cm
weight 76kg
Inseam 880mm

Thank you for your time and opinion

Kamil
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [xoslic] [ In reply to ]
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Kamil,

Thank you for this refreshing post. Most of what I do here is prescribe for purchase but you've already got your bike so I'm happy to poke around a bit in your numbers and discuss.

Based on your Pad Stack and Pad Reach you're perfect on that size large. You could have just made it on an XL but painted into a bit of a corner. Your arm pad elevation is ~12% of seat height which is what I'd expect. Setback is 30mm and you're sitting on the nose of a logical saddle.

Now, about that saddle - which seems to be your chief complaint. I'm not a believer in any of the tools that marketing departments come up with to predict saddle comfort. I think it all comes down to getting into your position (either on your bike or a fit bike that's set up to your coordinates) and then having lots of different saddles put under you until you find one you love. Your position seems logical, I don't see something in there that says "Ah Ha! that's what's causing the saddle concern!". So that might mean that it's a basic saddle issue - we're here on the internet having never met so I have to do to you what my computer tech assistant does to me when I call and say I can't get this download to work and she starts with "is the computer plugged in?". So...just confirming the basics: you are riding in a quality bike short with no seams in the pad and you've got pad on skin (no underwear). Also, if you're out for more than say 90min I think some sore lube is nice - you can pay the high dollar for the bike specific stuff or get some A&D Ointment from the diaper isle at your local pharmacy.

Here's my one question for you - and I doubt it'll effect saddle comfort - I worry your cranks are 175s. Can you check that and get back to me here?

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [matthewg] [ In reply to ]
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Matt,

Let me say this right up front - the frames are the same, identical.

I have to admit that I haven't looked that closely at the difference between the CF bikes and CF WMN bikes. I wanted to compare apples to apples so I picked the two Dura Ace mechanical bikes ...I've just spent the last 15min pouring over the differences between the CF 8.0 ($3,999) and the CF WMN 8.0 ($3,599). Here's my takeaway which is completely biased by my own priorities in bike purchase:

1) FIT - the Pad Stack and Pad Reach on the XS are identical between both versions. On the SM and the bike you're after, the Medium, the Pad Stacks are the same but oddly enough the Pad Reach's are different even though they both come spec'd with the same stem (80 on both). That's pretty bizarre - I'll inquire down the road what's up with that - but let's stick to what matters for you, here, now - The WMN bike Pad Reach claims to be 10mm shorter in reach. If that's true (could be a typo) the 15mm spacer spec is the same (cuz the Pad Stack is the same), but the pads would now be mounted dead center on the bracket to offset that 10mm difference if in fact that exists.

2) Groupo/Price - for me, after fit, it's all about the components and price just scales with them. You were originally looking at the 7.0 which is a 105 bike at $2,599 and now it's a Dura Ace bike at $3,599. I'm not a grouppo snob and frankly both 105 and Ultegra have developed so nicely over the years that I don't care that much. My attitude is if it's not electronic then it's mechanical and as long as you avoid the no-go zone of sora/tiagra/2300/etc then you're perfect. That said, DA is sweet - durable, light, fast shifting, gotta love it.

3) Color - Much like Spinal Tap's album "Smell the Glove" they are black - It's worth a revisit

4) Wheels - the DA bike you're looking at now has 45mm deep aero wheels from Mavic that retail for $1500. Funny how the price between the two bikes goes up $800 but the wheel value difference is ~$1000 more and the groupo is ~$600 more. So you're paying $800 more for ~$1600 more in sexy wheels and a DA group set!

5) odds and ends: Gearing is same on both: 52x36 rings with 11x30 cassette, tires are the same, lot of identical stuff here.

My last piece of advice is to buy that bike before it goes out of stock!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

thanks for you post. I am glad my numbers look good. No worries about crank length, mine is 170mm (I sold stock Ultegra with 175 and replaced with Quarq 170mm). So my saddle setback looks ok to you?
It is not very clear to me, how do I have to measure seat height on my Speedy - BB to middle of saddle or front third or half, where I place my pubic rami?
BTW my seat height is 1cm higher on TT bike than on my road bike, is it ok?
Next weeks I plan to ride a test version of much praised ISM PN 3.0 and 3.1, so I will see.

Many thanks for your comments!
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