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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

Any experience with this: http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/...le-the-aero-pads-up/

Thanks, Erik
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [DutchErik] [ In reply to ]
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Ian.
I am looking to buy the CF 7.0 disc. Not sure on the size, could you help?

Pad reach: 499
Pad stack: 707
Pad height: 60
Pad offset: 50
Pad center to center: 270
SX: 135
SY: 684
HX: 549
HY: 647

I am 5'10 with a 32 in inseam.

Thank you.
Last edited by: SoonerBorn: May 17, 21 11:30
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi, Ian. Amazing help through this entire thread! I'm also one of the many looking at a Speedmax (7 or 8 disc). Would appreciate it if you could take a look at my own numbers. Maybe give me and idea of frame size and what I'd need to do, if anything, to get the factory bike fit to my measurements. Thanks!

Height: 171cm
Inseam: 83
Torso: 60
Shoulder width: 44
Elbow to thumb: 40.5


*Stack: 65
**Reach: 50

I was measured using saddle height referenced from BB. I did some interpretation from there. Here's the plain text of my fit:

*Saddle Height (crank-center to saddle-top-midpoint): 72
*Pad Drop (saddle-top-midpoint to pad): 7

**Saddle-nose to pad: 50 (my BB offset from saddle-top-midpoint was 0)
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [Voodoo90] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi,
Thanks in advance for this.

I am reevaluating my size choice for a CFR/SLX. I could still adjust it with Canyon.
Pad x: 505 mm
Pad y: 680 mm, maxed out the spacers on the previous SLX.

Inseam 97 cm
Body size 192 cm
Seat hight 840 mm

I had to change it slightly to my latest bike fitting data.
I feel like I might have to go with. XL and a short stem? Would that work?

Canyon suggested an L and a long stem. Though I put in the wrong inseam of 91 when I submitted my data.

My frame size on the old rim brake SLX was L with a short stem.

VooDoo90,
The previous model - the rim brake SLX was a very long and very low bike. This new one.. not so much.

For the Canyon Speedmax SLX size Large the Pad X maxes out at 504 with everything (long stem, pads pushed to the max). If 505 is your Pad X, and I see no reason to doubt that, then you need to get the XL. And the XL will be perfect for you with all the stock stuff: short stem, mid spacer, mid aero extension, etc. etc.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [DutchErik] [ In reply to ]
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Erik,

I had not seen that. The first post is from 2017 so if you go this route.. make sure he's got a version to fit your bike.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: May 18, 21 19:46
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [SoonerBorn] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Ian.
I am looking to buy the CF 7.0 disc. Not sure on the size, could you help?

Pad reach: 499
Pad stack: 707
Pad height: 60
Pad offset: 50
Pad center to center: 270
SX: 135
SY: 684
HX: 549
HY: 647

I am 5'10 with a 32 in inseam.


SoonerBorn,
Let me answer your direct question first - if your Pad Y is 707 and your Pad X is 499 and your seat height is 761 (had to pull that number off you're other post) then the right Speedmax SLX for you is a size Large. And the seat post will be well down in the frame.

Now... if you'll permit me... I'd like to share some thoughts that combine this post and some info from the "sizing question" post of May 17th. You're making me work for this one: critical numbers and info spread across two posts one of which is me just stumbling on it!

You're pretty leggy for a guy who's 5'10" and that'll work. There are lots of us with that morphology. I'm pretty content with your Pad X of 499. I would have guessed 480 but that's in the neighborhood. Your Pad Y of 707 however is suspect to me. I would have thought a 650 would be more logical. I don't have much to go on so you might have 4 fused lumbar vertebrae and if so - 707 is prolly right. You might have a sizeable beer belly. If so the 707 is justified. But... if you're fit, normal, healthy... then I worry something has gone awry. And I.... as not just a bike fitter, but a bike fit instructor, and a triathlon coach have to inquire... what saddle was used in this fit, where where you sitting it, and was it comfortable? I ask this because if you're hips are behind the bottom bracket more than desired you can't get low. In the other post you suggested the set-back is 30mm okay, maybe, but you better sitting on the front half of the saddle. I also wonder - what length crank was used for this fit? I ask this because you should probably be on 160-165mm cranks and if you were on something longer then it's harder to get low.

I'd like to keep working with you on this here if you're willing.

Are you injury free/healthy/fit(ish)?
Tell me about your fit experience:
1) were you in a cycling kit and clipping in?
2) everything you can remember about the saddle and how you were comported upon it?
3) what were the length of the cranks on that 58?
4) were you comfortable in the final position?
5) did you feel powerful in the final position?

Get back to me, we'll figure it out.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: May 18, 21 17:25
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:

VooDoo90,
The previous model - the rim brake SLX was a very long and very low bike. This new one.. not so much.

For the Canyon Speedmax SLX size Large the Pad X maxes out at 504 with everything (long stem, pads pushed to the max). If 505 is your Pad X, and I see no reason to doubt that, then you need to get the XL. And the XL will be perfect for you with all the stock stuff: short stem, mid spacer, mid aero extension, etc. etc.

Ian

Hi Ian,
Thank you so much for the advice. In my calculation I ended up with the XL model and a short stem too. Though, as my forearm length is 39-40 cm I would go with the ling extensions. Extension length has always been a problem and the only ones so far that fit were the Zipp Vuka.

The frame size was important though. I changed it with Canyon. Looking forward to all the adjustments.

I appreciate the work you do! Thanks.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [Voodoo90] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,
Thank you so much for the advice. In my calculation I ended up with the XL model and a short stem too. Though, as my forearm length is 39-40 cm I would go with the ling extensions. Extension length has always been a problem and the only ones so far that fit were the Zipp Vuka.
The frame size was important though. I changed it with Canyon. Looking forward to all the adjustments.

I appreciate the work you do! Thanks.

Voodoo90,
You are welcome, I'm glad I could help. And good point on the long extension!

Enjoy.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ctbrus] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi, Ian. Amazing help through this entire thread! I'm also one of the many looking at a Speedmax (7 or 8 disc). Would appreciate it if you could take a look at my own numbers. Maybe give me and idea of frame size and what I'd need to do, if anything, to get the factory bike fit to my measurements. Thanks!
Height: 171cm
Inseam: 83
Torso: 60
Shoulder width: 44
Elbow to thumb: 40.5
*Stack: 65
**Reach: 50
I was measured using saddle height referenced from BB. I did some interpretation from there. Here's the plain text of my fit:
*Saddle Height (crank-center to saddle-top-midpoint): 72
*Pad Drop (saddle-top-midpoint to pad): 7
**Saddle-nose to pad: 50 (my BB offset from saddle-top-midpoint was 0)

ctbrus,
You ride long! I would have put your Pad X at 460 and you're out to 500. That's long. It's so long that I would be worried that it was a typo but you back it up with this nose-of-saddle-zero-setback addition. But you also speak to some "interpretation" so maybe it's not 500.?? I'm not sure but you're height - inseam ratio are logical, normal so I don't see how/why you are at Pad X - UNLESS! This was measured to the center of the pad! That's gotta be it!

I'm gonna prescribe a Speedmax CF based on this info: Seat Height of 720, a Pad Y of 650, and a Pad X of 460 to the rear of the pad. Seat Height is great. The Pad Y for that is great, right in the center. The Pad X will happen with the 80mm stem that comes stock and pads pushed out 100%.

Let me know if I'm wrong about my guess that Pad X 500 is to the center. The bike can still work but we have to get creative.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi, Ian. Thanks for the help! By "interpretation" I meant trying to transpose my fit measurements that used the saddle nose as a reference point vs BB. We are talking pad center from my memory... another measurement: cockpit -sdl nose to shifter pivot- is 81cm if that gives you any more insight (??)

Are you thinking a small frame with the fit considerations? It looked like from the Canyon ht/inseam guide it was spitting that out but I was close to a medium. I'm currently on a 52cm Kestrel and it feels pretty compact. Whatever gives me more flexibility to dial in the fit is my best bet, though!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ctbrus] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:

Hi, Ian. Thanks for the help! By "interpretation" I meant trying to transpose my fit measurements that used the saddle nose as a reference point vs BB. We are talking pad center from my memory... another measurement: cockpit -sdl nose to shifter pivot- is 81cm if that gives you any more insight (??)

Are you thinking a small frame with the fit considerations? It looked like from the Canyon ht/inseam guide it was spitting that out but I was close to a medium. I'm currently on a 52cm Kestrel and it feels pretty compact. Whatever gives me more flexibility to dial in the fit is my best bet, though!


ctbrus
The small fits you best because of seat height - like many folks, your Pad Y/X could work on a couple of sizes - for you it's a Small or Medium. The small is a better fit for you even with the pads pushed forward 100% and if (in the extremely unlikely event) that you'd want to ride longer you'd just get a 90mm stem from Canyon and you'd have it.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: May 19, 21 18:52
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Great! Thanks so much!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

Thanks for all the great info in this thread!

I’m looking to buy my first tri specific bike, and i like the speedmax cf slx.
The canyon website puts me in a medium, but all thats available is a large, could that work for me?
I’ve got no pad x and y measurements..
Height: 183 cm
Inseam: 84,5 cm
Saddle height on roadbike (fitted): 765mm with 172,5 cranks.
Im pretty flexible and do not have a beer belly :)


Thanks in advance!
Max
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [Maximus934] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,

Thanks for all the great info in this thread!

I’m looking to buy my first tri specific bike, and i like the speedmax cf slx.
The canyon website puts me in a medium, but all thats available is a large, could that work for me?
I’ve got no pad x and y measurements..
Height: 183 cm
Inseam: 84,5 cm
Saddle height on roadbike (fitted): 765mm with 172,5 cranks.
Im pretty flexible and do not have a beer belly :)

Max,
Well.... no beer belly, healthy flexible... and pretty leggy for your height. I bet your Pad Y is roughly 655 and Pad X ~480. Based on that I think the disc brake SLX is better for you in a Large than a Medium (although both would work). You'll be able to use the short stem that comes stock on that bike in the USA and just push the pads forward... quite a bit. If you're ordering in the US the mid spacer will come on the bike, you can ride for a bit but I think you might be able to drop down to the low spacer.

I see that Canyon has the rim brake SLX for sale at $2000 off in the US if that's the bike you are in interested in let me know as the prescription is very different.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

Thanks for the great job done here.

I'm planning to buy a CF 8.0 rim brakes. Height: 170cm - Inseam: 78cm
S size is what the canyon site is proposing but I was wondering if XS will work too? As it is the only one available now.
Unfortunately I don't have any other data. It will be my first TT/road bike.

Thanks a lot
Elyas
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [Elyas] [ In reply to ]
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one more info: Saddle height (center of bottom bracket to top of saddle near the middle): 68cm
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [Elyas] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,

Thanks for the great job done here.

I'm planning to buy a CF 8.0 rim brakes. Height: 170cm - Inseam: 78cm
S size is what the canyon site is proposing but I was wondering if XS will work too? As it is the only one available now.
Unfortunately I don't have any other data. It will be my first TT/road bike.

Elyas,
Based on what you've given me I suspect your Pad Y to be around 605ish and your Pad X to be roughly 435. AND.... first road or TT bike at 680.. it'll likely be a hair higher for a appropriately steep (as in steep seat angle) for your tri position.

So, for a Speedmax rim brake CF... the XS will work but NOT with the 70mm stem that comes stock on that bike. You'll need to pull it and put on probably a 90mm stem. Now, here's the thing... the 90mm Canyon stem (V21) will look best but you can put pretty much any 90mm -17degree stem on there because the steer tube is standard at 1 1/8 and the bar clamp is standard at 31.8.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks a lot Ian for your detailed reply.

Elyas
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I'm bumping this only to help support my comment on AlexChejlyk's thread

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I'm following this thread with interest. Some thoughts..

If only there was a place... that had a guy... who knew something about fitting and positioning QR and Canyon Tri Bikes...if only!

1) None of us can reflected on the Stack and Reach difference without knowing the size of the PRsix and the size of the CF
2) The Stack and Reach (these are terms that speak to a place on the frame - a top the head tube) are pretty useless in this conversation because the PRsix is a super bike and the CR is super adjacent*. What we should be looking at is Pad Y and Pad X.
3) If you want to get the CF (or any mortal tri bike) lower you typically have 4 ways to do it..
a) Remove pedestals from under aerobars - sounds like you've done this
b) Remove spacers from under stem - sounds like you're gonna do this
c) *Remove the -17deg Canyon Stem that comes on this bike (V21) and put on some even steeper angled stem....but, and here's where we have to discuss that fact that this bike is super-adjacent, while the base bar is standard 31.8 and the steerer is standard 1 1/8 there are lots of independent stems that'll work.....most stems have clamp bolts that will interfere with that snug connection to the bento so be careful there.
d) Remove the entire front end (base bar & aerobars) rebuild with something that has a lower pad height. The new disc brake CF is built with Profile-Design Subsonic and that pad sits pretty low. You'd prolly have to do some sort of undermount thing to steal a cm or two there.

I'd be very curious to hear the Pad Y/Pad X of your wife's position on the PRsix. HERE's how you might get that. And then the size of the CF that's trying to get close to her PRsix position.

Ian
Good info, thank you! I wish I knew about your place in this space BEFORE she bought the bike.

1) Size SM on the Canyon SpeedMax CF8 Disc, size 52 on the 2016 QR PR6
2) QR PR6: Pad X=465mm Pad Y=615mm Seat Height=720mm

Alex,
Okay, the Speedmax CF disc size small can and will get to Pad Y 615, Pad X 465 and the seat height of 720 is perfect. And, it'll get there with stock stuff - as in the stem that comes spec'd on the bike. Her position is 10mm short of the longest, and 10mm shy of the lowest that bike will go. So pull the pedestals out from under the aerobars so they are sitting flush on the base bar. Pull the 25mm spacer out from under the stem and then add 10mm somewhere - you can either do 10mm under the stem (aesthetically this is prolly best so that the top of the stem and the top of the bento are in the same zip code) or 10mm pedestal under the aerobars. Then push the pads out the farthest they will go or one hole short of the farthest they will go. And you'll have 615/465.

Now, if something changes down the road and she wants to ride longer - you can go to a longer stem. I think an 80mm comes stock on that bike. I have a 90mm in my studio if needed. If, the future she wants to ride lower than 605 (that's the bottom).... Tilt the aerobars 5deg... let her try it.... 10deg.... let her tri it.... 15deg. The pad will drop as the tilt occurs.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Ian,

First of all, thank you for that service you offer here.

I’m looking into an SLX disc version.

Height 178
Inseam 87.6
Seat hight 770
X 525
Y 680

Undecided between S or M.

Thank you for your help.
Last edited by: memyselfandi: May 29, 21 17:23
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [memyselfandi] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hello Ian,

First of all, thank you for that service you offer here.
I’m looking into an SLX disc version.
Height 178
Inseam 87.6
Seat hight 770
X 525
Y 680
Undecided between S or M.
Thank you for your help.

memyselfandi,

I want to be polite and I think it's polite to first answer your direct question... Pad Y of 680, Pad X of 525 and Seat Height of 770. Cannot be done on this bike. The Pad X is so, so, so very long and that you'd have to have an XL to make that work and then the seat height isn't possible.

Now, I'd like to explore a bit if you're willing... you're 5'10" and you have a 34.4in inseam - super, super long legs for your height. If you came to me with just height and inseam I would have pegged your Pad Y at 630-650 and Pad X at 460-470. If you you were in that range you'd be perfect on a Medium. The Pad Y of 680 is high but there's lots of reasons why that might be explained: cranks are too long, neck issues, posterior chain tightness, etc. The Pad X of 525 however... that's really out there, beyond outlier even for some one your height with a 28in inseam. Are these numbers off a road bike with clip-on aerobars? Let me know, work it through with me - tomorrow's a time trial in the Giro and they are so boring I'll have time to drill down into this with you here and we'll figure it out.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Ian,

Thank you for your answer. Unfortunately, there was a typo. X should be 425 instead of 525.
Pad Y is do to a spine fracture from a crash last year. I’m working my way back down. ;-).
The numbers are taken off my Trek SC 7.5 from 2012, which I’m riding right now.

So let’s try it again please.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:



1) Size SM on the Canyon SpeedMax CF8 Disc, size 52 on the 2016 QR PR6
2) QR PR6: Pad X=465mm Pad Y=615mm Seat Height=720mm


Alex,
Okay, the Speedmax CF disc size small can and will get to Pad Y 615, Pad X 465 and the seat height of 720 is perfect. And, it'll get there with stock stuff...

Ian[/quote]


Awesome! That is great news. She has a Retul fit scheduled on the 7th of June. I'll get it close and fitter can get it right. ;)


I very much appreciate your expertise and willingness to share.


I'll post back after the changes.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [memyselfandi] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hello Ian,

First of all, thank you for that service you offer here.
I’m looking into an SLX disc version.
Height 178
Inseam 87.6
Seat hight 770
X 525
Y 680
Undecided between S or M.
Thank you for your help.
memyselfandi,

I want to be polite and I think it's polite to first answer your direct question... Pad Y of 680, Pad X of 525 and Seat Height of 770. Cannot be done on this bike. The Pad X is so, so, so very long and that you'd have to have an XL to make that work and then the seat height isn't possible.

Now, I'd like to explore a bit if you're willing... you're 5'10" and you have a 34.4in inseam - super, super long legs for your height. If you came to me with just height and inseam I would have pegged your Pad Y at 630-650 and Pad X at 460-470. If you you were in that range you'd be perfect on a Medium. The Pad Y of 680 is high but there's lots of reasons why that might be explained: cranks are too long, neck issues, posterior chain tightness, etc. The Pad X of 525 however... that's really out there, beyond outlier even for some one your height with a 28in inseam. Are these numbers off a road bike with clip-on aerobars? Let me know, work it through with me - tomorrow's a time trial in the Giro and they are so boring I'll have time to drill down into this with you here and we'll figure it out.

Hello Ian,

Thank you for your answer. Unfortunately, there was a typo. X should be 425 instead of 525.
Pad Y is do to a spine fracture from a crash last year. I’m working my way back down. ;-).
The numbers are taken off my Trek SC 7.5 from 2012, which I’m riding right now.

So let’s try it again please.

Oh, thank goodness on the typo and great that your back on it after the crash!!! This is great news.

Pad Y of 680, Pad X of 425 and Seat Height of 770 and this is for a Speedmax SLX. The size small maxes out at a Pad Y of ~672 so it has to be the Medium and the Medium works really well. And it works well with the short stem that comes stock in the USA. You'll need the high spacer for now and pads back a little bit from center. It looks perfect!!!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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