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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [BPdc] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian -

Had a few chats with Canyon online, but now I have more specific fit data, I'm keen on the SLX, but don't think I can come close on armpad stack, but the CF seems doable? Would love your opinion either way.

Cheers, Pat

Existing bike - Small Trek TTT (OG) with 165mm crank and the XXX cockpit with profile straight bars. My fitter is conservative on stack, but at 44, I'm ok with that right now. I'm 5'6 w/ 81cm inseam.

Top of saddle to center of pedal spindle = 89 cm

Nose of saddle to bar/stem intersection = 47 cm with ISM Breakway saddle
Top of saddle to top of bars = -100 mm
KOP = + 75 mm
Saddle tilt = - 3.5 degrees

STA = 80.5 degrees *
TT = 50 cm c to c LEVEL *
ST = 55 cm *
Stand Over = 80.5 cm MAXIMUM

Frame coordinates
Y = 55 cm +
X = 39.5 cm -

(*) off size cycle

Stem = 9 cm @ -17 degrees with 7.5 cm rise along the HT (off size cycle) w 42 cm BASE Bars

Approx X-Y for the aero pad:
Y= 66.5 cm
X = 48.5 cm

BPdc,
There are lots of numbers here and a few stand out to me - you're 5' 6" with a nearly 32" inseam. WOW! And your seat height is 890 with 165 cranks (or 725 to bb)
Your Pad Y is 665 and Pad X is 485 but based on morphology I'd suspect it to be more like 610/445. I'm trying to see, in the others numbers, why your pads are so high - you've got a 100mm drop...seat angle 80.5 degrees and you've got a saddle that should allows for the ol' nose ride. Curious.. Is it possible this Pad X is measured to the middle of the pad?

Well, regardless - Pad Y of 665 and Pad X of 485. if all this is accurate and you love your fit then the problem with the Canyon Speedmax SLX is not your Pad Y but your Pad X. Here's the prescription for an SLX: it's a Medium but you have to get the long stem and you have to push the pads out 100% to the max and even then the Pad X will be 483 and you want 485 - 2mm in this place is acceptable. You'll need the high spacer but you can be slammed on that so it'll work well and give you some room to move up and down if you want.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Jul 27, 21 13:56
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [silverman4] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thanks for the reply Ian. The pad Y of 660 and pad X of 432 are correct but I believe I can ride a bit lower and longer. I'm 64 and not quite as limber as I used to be and I currently ride a 2005 Cannondale Slice in a 56, which is just a bit large for me. The nose of the ISM Adamo saddle is even with the bottom bracket - it is as far forward as the rails will allow. Not sure I can get to 600/460 but probably get close, though I suspect I will want to ease back a bit as the years go by. As you note below the CF8 in small will serve either case. My question is if I cannot get all the way to 600/460 on the SLX in small, what would be the cutoff point for needing the longer stem?

I very much appreciate your advice.


Steve,
So glad that you wrote back and explained. I too am finding that as the years roll on (I'm 53) that my pad elevation needs to be less for comfort. I used 14cm drop and now 11cm and will likely go to 10cm soon. I find as many riders age the range of motion in the cervical spine just reduces a bit. That prescription I have you was for your current 660/432 and there will be room to move - 440 will be the max on the short stem.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the feedback, Ian - I also double (triple) checked the inseam - I was given a bad number when I checked at home, it's 78 cm. Does that change the recommendation at all?

IIRC, yes, was measured to the middle of my somewhat compressed pads.

And would the changes require redoing the cables - I understand they might not always accommodate bigger changes.
Last edited by: BPdc: Jul 27, 21 14:50
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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This isn't completely fit related but hope you can help. I ordered my XL CF 8 Disc last Tuesday and got it this Monday. Super excited to get it going! There are a few things I noticed when putting it together:
1. I want to route the front brake cable internally through the steerer with an FSA ACR compression plug. But when I removed the top cap, it looks like the plug might be bonded in there (see image below). Is this the case? Or is there a way to remove it and use a different one? And if it is swappable, does the cavity in the fork and steerer connect in a way that a cable can be routed internally?
2. Is there a longer version of the V21 stem than 90mm? My P5 was set at 520x, back-of-pad. I have no problem reaching that with the cups in the forward most position, but I prefer to have them centered if there is a longer stem.
3. My previous stack was 620y, top of pad. I've accepted that the XL CF will never be that low unless I get an extreme drop stem (40 deg). It was a sacrifice I was willing to make for the added reach. But I could in theory use a Syntace Flatforce stem or something similar that lowers stack considerably without an extreme stem angle, since it has low steerer stack height, the same -17 or -20 angle, and a bar clamp that is offset down from center. However, the stock compression plug screw is tiny and probably isn't compatible with a standard top cap which are made for larger bolts. Do you have any ideas on how to get lower if the plug isn't removable?


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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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To answer some of my own question. The plug is removable. As a matter of fact, it has to be moved down when the 25mm steerer spacer is removed and steerer is cut, because the top cap bolt is only threaded half way

Noticed something odd.
Website says the XL has 608mm stack and 468mm reach.
Frame marking says very different (600 stack and 435 reach):

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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hello,

I am looking for some help. I am 193 cm tall (6' 4") and my leg is 95 cm long, that brought me to the "L" size for Speedmax CF 7.0 disc. I was fitted on the Retul fit bike and looks like some critical dimensions are as follows:

Saddle height bike fitting (BF) - 875 mm; Speedmax range (SP) - 740 - 890 mm (the fitter said that maybe small increase in that dimension may be needed due to 170mm cranks on L size)
Arm pad stack BF - 720 mm; SP - 663 - 757 mm (that is not correct, but you can play a lot with distance spacers)
Arm pad reach BF - 495 mm; SP - 448 - 527 mm (which is completely not true, please see below)

My bike has already arrived, but to my huge surprise it turned out that the X, Y ranges (e.g. arm pad reach and stack) do not match to those specified on Canyon website. Everything has to do with the fact that Di2 and mechanical versions differ with the aerobars. My model is equipped with Profile Design Subsonic Race 35a and the Di2 models are based on Aeria Ultimate. There is significant difference (2-3 cm) with the max arm pad reach you can get between those two versions of the same bike solely due to the cockpit.

Taking into account that all other dimensions seems to be OK, would you suggest to return my "L" size and get "XL" which is 3 cm higher and 3 cm longer or just replace aerobars with something like Profile Design Sonic 35a - that give back like 15 mm of reach.

Looks like I can be near upper limits for seat height or reach for L size, but then I have a lot of room for going lower (aero) on my stack height. On the other hand if I were to switch to XL I would be in the middle of all adjustments (like seat height), would have longer cranks (which I don't like), will have less space to go lower and would not match the very Canyons size guidelines that suggests XL for people more than 196 cm tall ;)

What could be pros and cons having larger bike vs. smaller one (XL vs L) in my situation?

Thanks in advance :)

Best regards,
Marcin
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Has anyone tried routing the front brake cable on a CF Disc through the steerer tube using an FSA ACR steerer plug? Is the cavity continuous at the fork leg / steerer transition?
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Ian,

I am interested in Canyon speedmax 8 CF disc, tribike. My measurements are 168 cm and 81 cm inseam (I am male). According to fit calculator, it suggests Small and geometry looks like stack 519 cm, reach 402 cm for small size.


Current bike is BMC TM02 2013 Tribike small size that fit well for me with geometry, stack - 480 cm, reach -393 cm.

My concern, is Canyon small trike is bigger than BMC geometry and I am thinking about going with XS. (Geometry - stack - 482 cm, reach- 374 cm)

What is your suggestion?.

Thanks,
Nay
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I own an earlier model (two pedestal model) and fit well on a medium frame. I am looking at the new Kona Limited edition. Has the sizing changed?
I will look closer at fit coordinates before purchasing, but wondering if you knew off the top of your head.

Team Zoot So Cal
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [BPdc] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian -

Had a few chats with Canyon online, but now I have more specific fit data, I'm keen on the SLX, but don't think I can come close on armpad stack, but the CF seems doable? Would love your opinion either way.

Cheers, Pat

Existing bike - Small Trek TTT (OG) with 165mm crank and the XXX cockpit with profile straight bars. My fitter is conservative on stack, but at 44, I'm ok with that right now. I'm 5'6 w/ 81cm inseam.

Top of saddle to center of pedal spindle = 89 cm

Nose of saddle to bar/stem intersection = 47 cm with ISM Breakway saddle
Top of saddle to top of bars = -100 mm
KOP = + 75 mm
Saddle tilt = - 3.5 degrees

STA = 80.5 degrees *
TT = 50 cm c to c LEVEL *
ST = 55 cm *
Stand Over = 80.5 cm MAXIMUM

Frame coordinates
Y = 55 cm +
X = 39.5 cm -

(*) off size cycle

Stem = 9 cm @ -17 degrees with 7.5 cm rise along the HT (off size cycle) w 42 cm BASE Bars

Approx X-Y for the aero pad:
Y= 66.5 cm
X = 48.5 cm
BPdc,
There are lots of numbers here and a few stand out to me - you're 5' 6" with a nearly 32" inseam. WOW! And your seat height is 890 with 165 cranks (or 725 to bb)
Your Pad Y is 665 and Pad X is 485 but based on morphology I'd suspect it to be more like 610/445. I'm trying to see, in the others numbers, why your pads are so high - you've got a 100mm drop...seat angle 80.5 degrees and you've got a saddle that should allows for the ol' nose ride. Curious.. Is it possible this Pad X is measured to the middle of the pad?

Well, regardless - Pad Y of 665 and Pad X of 485. if all this is accurate and you love your fit then the problem with the Canyon Speedmax SLX is not your Pad Y but your Pad X. Here's the prescription for an SLX: it's a Medium but you have to get the long stem and you have to push the pads out 100% to the max and even then the Pad X will be 483 and you want 485 - 2mm in this place is acceptable. You'll need the high spacer but you can be slammed on that so it'll work well and give you some room to move up and down if you want.

Ian
Quote:

Thanks for the feedback, Ian - I also double (triple) checked the inseam - I was given a bad number when I checked at home, it's 78 cm. Does that change the recommendation at all?

IIRC, yes, was measured to the middle of my somewhat compressed pads.

And would the changes require redoing the cables - I understand they might not always accommodate bigger changes.

BPdc,

Sorry the delay. Looking back I see now what caused my hesitation... "I triple check the inseam...it's 78cm". Okay, that's ~30.5in for an inseam and that's more logical for someone your height. Now I would expect your Pad Y to be ~590 and Pad X 455 (to rear of pad) and you've come with Pad Y of 665 and Pad X of 445 (to rear and now we're CLOSE). There's still a lot of discrepancy in the Pad Y ~70cm.
If your Pad Y is 665 and Pad X is 445 to rear - then you're a medium SLX with the short stem (stock in USA) and the high spacer
if your Pad Y is 590 and Pad X is 455 to rear - then you're a medium SLX with the sort stem (stock in USA) and the low spacer.

If your Pad Y is 665 and Pad X is 445 to rear - then you're a small CF pretty much dead center in this bike's pad position.
if your Pad Y is 590 and Pad X is 455 to rear - then you're a small CF 100% slammed and keep in mind the Pad X bottoms out at 600

I'm gonna cut to it now.... The SLX will work for you but the CF is better and if you're right with your numbers you'll be fine. If I'm right you'll be okay. If the perfect spot for you is anywhere in between your numbers and my guess then the Small CF will meet you there.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

I really appreciate you doing this. Given the challenges with availability, I'm looking at a readily available medium Speedmax CF 8 Disc Di2. I recently had an updated fit session on a size cycle as I change from my primary focus being road racing to triathlon again. I've been out of tri for 10+ years and doing cycling only during that time. I've included both old and new fit numbers. For some reason I can't attach photos or include them in the post. Not sure if they're needed though. I'd appreciate your input on recommended size since the large doesn't seem to go low enough to get me as long as I'd like and the medium would require a 120 stem with pads pushed all the way forward. How would the medium handle in that configuration?

I'm 73" tall with 35" inseam.

New fit:

Saddle Height: 803
Saddle Setback: 56
Back of Pad Reach: 533
Pad Stack: 650
Back of pad to shifter: 400

Old (UCI legal TT) fit:

Saddle Height: 815
Saddle Setback: 79
Back of Pad Reach: 455
Pad Stack: 648
Back of pad to shifter: 370
Last edited by: mccormas: Aug 31, 21 18:48
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks so much, Ian.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi

I’ve just bought a Canyon Speedmax CF 8.0 Di2 in medium

I’m 180cm tall and my inseam is 86cm

How do you work out pad x and y please?

Am I right in thinking my saddle height should be 93.5cm?

I did 287w today on it for 15 miles in a loop and got 24.4mph in full aero gear so am wondering if my position is horrendous?

Thanks in advance

Total noob

John
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [sparklehedgehog] [ In reply to ]
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So, I know I'm not Ian, but I'm watching this thread waiting for a response from him as well and thought I'd respond to you.

Pad x and y are measurements from your bottom bracket (BB). Pad X is the measurement from the back of your pads to a line extending vertically from the center of your BB. Pad Y is the distance between the top of your uncompressed pad to a line that extends horizontally from the center of your BB.

How are you measuring your saddle height? 93.5 cm is extremely long so I'm guessing you've measured that from the ground or something. Saddle height should also be measured from your BB by measuring from the center of the BB to your saddle center/where your sit bones rest. See this article for some pictures: https://www.slowtwitch.com/...od_For_You_6229.html

Now on your efficiency, it's hard to weigh in without knowing how hilly it was, road surface, tires/wheels used, what you were wearing, and if your power meter is calibrated. Assuming it was flat, good road surface, you had stock wheels and tires, and you had a tight fitting kit and standard road helmet with a calibrated PM, your position might be able to be improved for better aerodynamics. I actually just tested yesterday and my current bike is old, unaero, with old, slow tires and wheels and I was able to do 25.7 mph at 274W for a 30-minute out and back on decent road surface. My position can be seen in my profile. It's decent, but not great.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [mccormas] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the reply.

With regards to pad x and pad y, I meant how do you know what measurements of those do I need? Where do I find the info for my personal spec of that?

Saddle height I’ve always done from top of the pedal when at its lowest point as this means it’ll always be accurate for full extension regardless of crank length with varies between bikes but not if you measure from there. For example I have 172.5s on my road bikes and 170 on this speedmax but saddle height is the same on both this way whereas if I did it from bottom bracket the TT bike would have a lower saddle because of the shorter cranks if I did it from BB this changing my efficiency ?

Thanks again
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [sparklehedgehog] [ In reply to ]
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"With regards to pad x and pad y, I meant how do you know what measurements of those do I need? Where do I find the info for my personal spec of that?"


You get on a fit bike and try out different positions to see what works best for you.

Saddle height is measured from the center of the bottom bracket.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
Quote:
This isn't completely fit related but hope you can help. I ordered my XL CF 8 Disc last Tuesday and got it this Monday. Super excited to get it going! There are a few things I noticed when putting it together:
1. I want to route the front brake cable internally through the steerer with an FSA ACR compression plug. But when I removed the top cap, it looks like the plug might be bonded in there (see image below). Is this the case? Or is there a way to remove it and use a different one? And if it is swappable, does the cavity in the fork and steerer connect in a way that a cable can be routed internally?
2. Is there a longer version of the V21 stem than 90mm? My P5 was set at 520x, back-of-pad. I have no problem reaching that with the cups in the forward most position, but I prefer to have them centered if there is a longer stem.
3. My previous stack was 620y, top of pad. I've accepted that the XL CF will never be that low unless I get an extreme drop stem (40 deg). It was a sacrifice I was willing to make for the added reach. But I could in theory use a Syntace Flatforce stem or something similar that lowers stack considerably without an extreme stem angle, since it has low steerer stack height, the same -17 or -20 angle, and a bar clamp that is offset down from center. However, the stock compression plug screw is tiny and probably isn't compatible with a standard top cap which are made for larger bolts. Do you have any ideas on how to get lower if the plug isn't removable?

BigBoyND,
Sorry for the slow reply. I was hoping to confirm the compression plug info but still am unsure. First, what I know .. 90mm stem is the longest. Now about that plug - I would be SHOCKED to learn that it's bonded. The steer can be cut and to that end the plug would have to come out. Which then brings us to an option that might solve both your X & Y desires. What if you abandoned the Canyon stem and went with an option that send you longer (for center arm cup mount) and lower to get the Y you want. The front end might not flush up on every nook and cranny with an off brand stem but your position is more important that those aesthetics.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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To answer some of my own question. The plug is removable. As a matter of fact, it has to be moved down when the 25mm steerer spacer is removed and steerer is cut, because the top cap bolt is only threaded half way

Noticed something odd.
Website says the XL has 608mm stack and 468mm reach.
Frame marking says very different (600 stack and 435 reach):

BigBoyND,
Well now we know for sure about the plug- good news. I'd like to hear from you about the longest/lowest you can get to - because I know that's where you're headed. Let's ignore what's on my sheets and what's printed on that sticker - when you get the bike level and measure it real-world in it's longest lowest position...what do you get?

This method might work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZa8UIIwrYE

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian,
Thanks for the response.
1. Yes, the compression plug is removable and I had to move it down after cutting the steerer, so the plan is to get a FSA ACR plug and see if the front brake line can be routed that way.
2. I got confirmation that the frame printing is wrong and online spec sheet is correct. Next time the bike is out, I will try to remember to measure it.
3. An aftermarket stem will likely be the way to go. I just need to decide between
(a) the heavy, integrated PD Aeria Ultimate which would add 10mm drop and 10mm reach
(b) Syntace Flatforce which adds similar drop, comes in longer lengths, and is lighter than AU but not integrated
(c) the new PD stem that's in development which won't add more drop, but will be lighter than AU, integrated, and come in longer lengths.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian,

Looking to purchase a used 2019 Canyon Speedmax CF 7.0 in a Medium size.
My measurements from my FELT B4 road bike with aerobars and a bike fit aiming for a triathlon setup were:
Saddle Height 760mm
Arm pad reach to BB 412mm
Arm pad Stack to BB 718mm
Height is 182cm tall
Inseam 87.25cm

Do you think a medium would fit? I plan to get a proper fit done on it but can't get in for one quick enough before this used bike likely will sell.


Thanks for your time, appreciate it!
Last edited by: wispy24: Sep 7, 21 14:21
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Post deleted by Kojobo [ In reply to ]
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [Kojobo] [ In reply to ]
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I would recommend shorter cranks.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
I'm interested in purchasing a Canyon CF 8 Disc Di2 (or Etap model). I kind of fall between an S and an M in size. The Canyon site recommends size M based on height and inseam measurement (I'm 178cm and inseam is 81cm), but the S measurements also seem to be an option. I currently ride a Felt DA2 size 54 with an armpad reach of 430 (centre of BB to rear edge of armpad) and an armpad stack of 670 (BB to underside of armpad).
I would really appreciate any advice you might be able to offer on this.
Thank you.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [kensei] [ In reply to ]
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Marcin,

I'm so sorry for the long delay in responding. I'm quite certain that you've already made a decision on how to solve this. I'd like to hear what route you chose and if you still have any more questions on your current fit situation. I ask this because I can be better the more I learn and you've already taught me something here. I have had a lot of time with all models of the CF but your post made me look closer at the builds and I see that you're right about the electronic build coming with an Areia Ultimate bracket while the mechanical builds come with the Subsonic bracket. Even if the pad range isn't exact with both brackets your numbers Pad Y 720 and Pad X 495 seem to so nicely positioned in the middle of that range that I would expect the front end would still meet you where you want to be. My only worry might be that the Canyon Pad X is measured to the rear of the pad and maybe your fitter noted center of pad???

Let me know, I'm eager to hear.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CFR, CF SLX, and CF (disc & rim brake) [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Has anyone tried routing the front brake cable on a CF Disc through the steerer tube using an FSA ACR steerer plug? Is the cavity continuous at the fork leg / steerer transition?

I haven't seen this - but I'll keep a look out.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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