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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
To be fair...I made an appointment with a Retul fitter and first thing he said on the phone was to bring my bike in...well it's totaled so that was worthless. Although he began licking his chops when I said that since he obviously wants to make a sale.


let's take a quiz. if you think like me, what are the 5 most important things to remember, to guide you, to insist upon, after you've decided to get a bike fit and you're choosing your fitter?

Well...I read that article...on purpose two weeks ago, so let's see:

Fit Coordinates, List of Bikes that correspond with those fit coordinates, Saddle I'm most comfortable on

Now looking at the article: A video of myself on the fit bike, where I am relative to norms.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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1. I discovered the articles, eventually. I think someone made a stupid joke that there was a front page....:)

2. It might be the first one since May.... Dunno. :) yes, there's a search function...

3. We keep making smart-ass jokes about the articles on the front page! So that people realize there is more to ST than bike porn. I suppose you could add it to the sticky "about this site", but nobody reads that either.

Hey! I've read every fit article! Most of them twice, some three times. The ones on a static tri fit... Probably 4 times. The one on the diamondback fitter probably 10, and the fitter itself, God knows how many times I've played with that.

Mostly, I'm just a smart ass....who occasionally tries to be marginally useful. ... In a smart ass sort of way.
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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We will get it fixed, there are some very good, and knowledgeable people reaching out to help.
Quite frankly its amazing the support and information on this website and forum.
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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Those are things to get when you get fit... But you also want to see a portfolio BEFORE you choose your fitter. If you don't like the way they fit people (you don't like the way they look on the bike) why would you go to them?

To Trent's point, I live in the same town as his shop, and I think I know one of the shops he's talking about. I've looked at their fits... And I won't be going there. I've looked at Trent's fits... That's where I will be going in the next week or so.
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
snip

here are the 5 - in fact we'll make it 6 - things i'd bear in mind, and that i'd ask the fitter. the answer to these questions (rather than whether the fitter is F.I.S.T. or Retul certified) will tell me whether this fitter is worthy of my trust.

1. does the fitter have a fit bike that conforms to best practices in dynamic fit?
2. what drives the fitter's decisions?
3. does the fitter weight the value of orthodoxy? what does the fitter (with precision, using numbers) consider an orthodox position? how does he move the fitter to orthodoxy?
4. what does the fitter give to the customer? what are the deliverables? and do they include a video of the position?
5. how does the fitter generate complete bike solutions from the results of the fit? and, what is the fitter's process for translating the results of the fit to a customer's existing bike, if the customer wants a retrofit of his bike?
6. what saddles and aerobars does the fitter have in stock for me to try during a fit session?

any fitter worthy of your money will answer those questions, with precision, unhesitatingly. any fitter who can't answer those questions isn't worthy of your money.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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@Slowman, maybe you should add a Bike fit (and/or Swim technique) critique subforum, with a sticky thread highlighting your points above (or a link to one of the many articles you've already written on the topic)?
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [MattyK] [ In reply to ]
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MattyK wrote:
@Slowman, maybe you should add a Bike fit (and/or Swim technique) critique subforum, with a sticky thread highlighting your points above (or a link to one of the many articles you've already written on the topic)?

we have a forum here, hidden to you all - well, not hidden, but we don't share the link - just for bike fitters. i spose i COULD just make this a bike fitting forum, for all comers.

is that your preference? just, realize that folks here generally don't like subforums. but obviously we have them when the need arises. this would mean that the threads on bike fit, critique my fit, etc., get moved to that forum. or, only the bike-fit-gone-bad threads, and the help me find a fitter threads, move to that forum.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Some general feedback.

When I have searched for your past articles regarding bike fitting, I have had a hard time finding them all. Unless you know exactly what the name of the article was, it can be hard to find.

You need to make it very accessible to find these articles and very obvious. My suggestion: make a sticky at the top of this forum just for bike fit and then link all the articles in that post. Lock the post so no one can comment. The post stays at the top of the forum and makes it very easy for folks to find all the articles. Update the post anytime you write a new article regarding bike fit.

blog
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
Some general feedback.

When I have searched for your past articles regarding bike fitting, I have had a hard time finding them all. Unless you know exactly what the name of the article was, it can be hard to find.

You need to make it very accessible to find these articles and very obvious. My suggestion: make a sticky at the top of this forum just for bike fit and then link all the articles in that post. Lock the post so no one can comment. The post stays at the top of the forum and makes it very easy for folks to find all the articles. Update the post anytime you write a new article regarding bike fit.



nevertheless, i'll take what you say to heart, because if you can't find them others can't. i have a fix in mind.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Yes I'm very aware of that link and I often click on it. But I still find it difficult to find what I'm looking for as its usually buried behind another click or 2. And what I'm looking for is usually an article I have already read or skimmed at some point and I just need to re-read it so I know it exists and I usually remember what the title is or have a general idea what the title is, so when I see the title of the article, I know that's what I'm looking for.

Now imagine if you are someone who has never read anything about bike fit or has a very small understanding. Where the heck do they start when they click on that "bike fit" link? I know where to tell someone to start but if you don't have someone telling you where to start, they are going to be very overwhelmed and frustrated. We need to guide the reader and right now, I don't think it does it.

blog
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
Yes I'm very aware of that link and I often click on it. But I still find it difficult to find what I'm looking for as its usually buried behind another click or 2. And what I'm looking for is usually an article I have already read or skimmed at some point and I just need to re-read it so I know it exists and I usually remember what the title is or have a general idea what the title is, so when I see the title of the article, I know that's what I'm looking for.

Now imagine if you are someone who has never read anything about bike fit or has a very small understanding. Where the heck do they start when they click on that "bike fit" link? I know where to tell someone to start but if you don't have someone telling you where to start, they are going to be very overwhelmed and frustrated. We need to guide the reader and right now, I don't think it does it.

yes. i see your point. what we really need is an intro to bike fit, or a legend that says, "need this? click here. need that? click here."

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
stevej wrote:
Yes I'm very aware of that link and I often click on it. But I still find it difficult to find what I'm looking for as its usually buried behind another click or 2. And what I'm looking for is usually an article I have already read or skimmed at some point and I just need to re-read it so I know it exists and I usually remember what the title is or have a general idea what the title is, so when I see the title of the article, I know that's what I'm looking for.

Now imagine if you are someone who has never read anything about bike fit or has a very small understanding. Where the heck do they start when they click on that "bike fit" link? I know where to tell someone to start but if you don't have someone telling you where to start, they are going to be very overwhelmed and frustrated. We need to guide the reader and right now, I don't think it does it.

yes. i see your point. what we really need is an intro to bike fit, or a legend that says, "need this? click here. need that? click here."

Exactly. A legend, table of contents, directory, or whatever you want to call it. That should sit at the top of a page and then guide the reader to respective articles.

blog
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Why not just a sticky with all different kinds of valuable threads/articles? You could have fit stuff, equipment selection, aero things, maybe even the latest updates on Ashley Horner.

Strava
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:

yes. i see your point. what we really need is an intro to bike fit, or a legend that says, "need this? click here. need that? click here."

The issue I have had is being certain that I can read ALL of the articles in a major section such as "bike fit". I'm the type that just wants to start reading from start-to-finish...especially, when the information spans a long period of time and may "evolve". I like the historical perspective. But, when I select the top level, I do not see "all" lower level articles. So, I have to click on each sub-section and look through all the articles there, and repeat for all. When articles reference each other in chronology (as often yours tend to do) something is lost if you don't follow the sequence.

An organizational approach that I've liked elsewhere is that the top level shows all articles for that level, AND all sub-levels. That way, I can see the list of ALL bike-fit (or training, or products, etc), articles in one place. If I want to restrict to a certain sub-category (such as "Bike fit Equipment and Tools" or "swimming"), then I can do that by selecting only that sub-section.
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
nevertheless, i'll take what you say to heart, because if you can't find them others can't. i have a fix in mind.

While you're looking at this, Dan, consider linking certain "product" articles both from the "Products" menu, as well as from the "Bike Fit" menu. Right off the top of my head the Saddles section is very relevant in "Bike Fit". There are probably others, perhaps some of the handlebar articles.
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [vjohn] [ In reply to ]
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Looking for help. Poor college student who is uneducated but cannot afford a bike fit. Anything helps, its clear you guys are quick to tell people what may help. Thanks.


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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [Mniels] Before and after fits [ In reply to ]
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Ok, its been awhile so I thought I would post a before and after. The first picture is what I presented to all of you back in August. The second picture is where I ended up after Jim from EROS skillfully transformed my position. Great experience working with Jim! I cant thank him enough!
What a pleasure it is to ride in comfort for extended periods.


Last edited by: Mniels: Jan 30, 19 12:54
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Re: New Tri Bike [Mniels] [ In reply to ]
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Not a fitter by any means, but this is atrocious. Not sure what your height is, but as previously stated the frame might not be the right size. Looks like the seat is at a pretty low insert, so if you're looking to go long and low it might be tough. There's simply no shoulder shrug that's going to fix that fit. Look up some of Mat Steinmatz stuff, he has some great insight on fitting. I've never done a pro fit, but I love to read as much as I can and noodle with my position from there. I'd first suggest going back to the bike shop and try to get your money back and perhaps swap frames. Secondly, if they don't give you the refund, perhaps save the money and tinker with the position by putting it on a trainer and adjusting it till it feels right and possesses many of the attributes that fitters talk about.

Also, not a bad place to start is look at some professional fits and ask yourself if your fit resembles it in any sense. Not to say that you should model your fit after a pro, but they have some things that are good boxes to check.



Does the above image have similarities to the image below?


Edit: Just realized this was a really old thread. The new position looks vastly improved compared to the original.

Team Zoot 2023
Last edited by: aerobean: Jan 30, 19 22:43
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Dan, a while back, you collected some information on height + inseam, and resulting stack and reach. Did that result in anything?

I bought my first tri-bike after being on the forum for a well. Thought I did my research and asked all the right questions. First fit? 50mm higher stack than my road bike! I discarded it. Even though the fitter had the credentials, it was all wrong from a guts perspective. 2nd fit was more or less fine (fitter mostly used retul guidances), but I had to stretch out he front end to feel comfortable on it. 1st fitter had a fit bike, 2nd fitter did not. It's really difficult to comb through this. This is also ignoring all the bike shops I went through that just tried to sell me a bike (including one that had a fit bike and had you conduct a FIST road show on). That bike shop just tried to sell me the floor model. A size M shiv (or maybe it was a venge vias) Sworks that I know won't fit me. The person I talked to (no clue who the actual fitter is) say they use the fit bike for post purchase fit.

For a first timer, I think we need something more tactical. I checked the boxes of 1) fit bike 2) FIST 3) have pictures 4) session includes cleat fit 5) have a range of saddles. However.... I simply did not know what I should look for in the pictures. I wanted long and low but almost everyone (fitter) I talked to said that would be uncomfortable (which ended up being not true, for me at least. I also don't think my position is all that aggressive). Regarding the first fitter, I also didn't realize the fitter subscribed to the theory that taller is faster (and all the pros are doing it wrong) because it allows air to flow under your body faster... I think your calculator might result in better results for most people. I am now in the orthodox range of your chart....
Last edited by: bloodyshogun: Jan 31, 19 12:29
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [bloodyshogun] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder how relevant it is for folks to just start off with the UCI TT template limits for a setup. Assuming you're young enough to hold it, you own the right size frame, and have a good tri/TT saddle.


I haven't done new video, but after initial feedback here for myself.........I went back to the UCI template limits as a starting point.

I've now ridden that way for a while. TT bike, even up to 2 hour rides on a TT setup.....and it feels pretty darn good. And this was 2 hours at a pace a lot harder than someone would ride for needing to run OTB.

I know I can do better in the long run, but the UCI template got me 95% of the way from where I started.
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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UCI template is a bad way to go for a triathlete, unless that person is one of the lucky ones who fits within that construct.

burnthesheep wrote:
I wonder how relevant it is for folks to just start off with the UCI TT template limits for a setup. Assuming you're young enough to hold it, you own the right size frame, and have a good tri/TT saddle.


I haven't done new video, but after initial feedback here for myself.........I went back to the UCI template limits as a starting point.

I've now ridden that way for a while. TT bike, even up to 2 hour rides on a TT setup.....and it feels pretty darn good. And this was 2 hours at a pace a lot harder than someone would ride for needing to run OTB.

I know I can do better in the long run, but the UCI template got me 95% of the way from where I started.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: New Tri Bike fit (Finally pictures added) [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
UCI template is a bad way to go for a triathlete, unless that person is one of the lucky ones who fits within that construct

I guess I’m lucky then.

I’m comfy and it makes power. We’ll see how aero it is when it gets warmer and I try some practice 10ers.
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