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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [prana800] [ In reply to ]
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prana800 wrote:
It is the way he called him out. If he did something negligent that caused the death, then the officer is in the wrong and he should receive disciplinary action, whether it be through the court system or through the LASO or both. ,

There is more to life than the courts system and LASO - if the news reports are at all accurate than this guy killed someone for no reason. Based on that, and there is no real, we should be calling that cop names. Lots of names.


prana800 wrote:
They do call them accidents for a reason however
Yeah, and the reason is so that there will be minimal investigations. "Just an accident - how can you assign blame. Just an accident. Nothing to see. Move along."

Thankfully that's changing - they're properly called crashes or incidents until it's determined if there was any fault. If it really was something random that no one could have prevented, then it's an accident. But calling it an accident from the start pre-supposes that there was no cause and no responsibility. Which is wrong.


http://www.jt10000.com/
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [Rokko] [ In reply to ]
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Rokko wrote:
I really wish that cops could have an opt-out option. People that feel that cops are "Fu@king A$$hole"'s should have the option of opting out of police service, then if they ever need to call the police, the police will not need to respond.

No one here has said that cops in general are FFFAAAAHHHHSSS - they've said that this one cop is.

Please stop your nonsense of trying to equate opinions about this one guy with opinions about cops in general.


http://www.jt10000.com/
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [Gary Mc] [ In reply to ]
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I edited my post. It was not my intention to assign blame because I do not presume to have all of the facts. My point was that instead of discussing what words are appropriate to describe the driver, maybe we should focus our discussion on the fact that too many cyclists are killed by drivers and that the law, the roads, & society need to change so we are better protected.
-----------
I agree


Train safe & smart
Bob

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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [Rokko] [ In reply to ]
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Rokko wrote:

I really wish that cops could have an opt-out option. People that feel that cops are "Fu@king A$$hole"'s should have the option of opting out of police service, then if they ever need to call the police, the police will not need to respond.

Being a police officer is an important, difficult and, too often, dangerous job. There are many hard working, honest, good cops walking the street and this 120 lbs whippet is glad that they are.

But this fact does not mean all cops are good at all times. There are bad cops out there. There are corrupt cops. Cops that use excessive force. Cops that run over cyclists in bike lanes.

You seem to be implying that cops should be above criticism, and that someone pissed at a cop for killing another human being (in all probability non-intentionally) should for some reason lose police protection. This mindset is how bad cops get away with doing bad shit.
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [SpaceKitty] [ In reply to ]
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SpaceKitty wrote:
This mindset is how bad cops get away with doing bad shit.
This.


http://www.jt10000.com/
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [prana800] [ In reply to ]
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They do call them accidents for a reason . . . .

I think this is part of the problem. We have a tendency to call them accidents, even though likely the result of someone not exercising due care. I think this is because it's very common to not exercise proper care when driving -- even those that rightly avoid the cell phone often zone out from time to time, look at scenery, talk to others, eat, fiddle with the radio dial, etc. So when we see someone else get into a collision in part because of inattention, we think "there but for the grace of God go I." And when we understand their situation, we tend to be more lenient. If we were to hold people more accountable for this type of driving (and I'm not arguing that punishment should be out of proportion), people might start taking their duty of care more seriously.
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [logella] [ In reply to ]
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From what I can see it looks pretty bad, a huge bike lane and a 25 MPH speed limit. From the damage to the car I suspect the officer was going faster than he should have been.
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [SpaceKitty] [ In reply to ]
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Just the opposite. I am to saying cops are above criticism, and if you read my post ou will see I am all in favor of a fll investigation and appropriate actions. What ticks me off is when people make assumptions about what happened without any knowledge of all the facts, and then turn it into an attack on cops. Yes there are bad cops out there. And bad doctors, bad priests, bad teachers, bad pilots.... Name a profession and there are bad ones. Hell, there are triathletes who lie and cheat. None of the hard working honest ones like them in their field. So when I read the above posts I see people assigning blame without full knowledge, and then bashing cops as a field. Maybe this one deputy is a f'ing a-hole. Or maybe he's an upstanding person who made a mistake. Or maybe the cyclist made the mistake. I don't know, not having all the facts or knowing anything about their personal lives. It's really irresponsible and damaging to make assumptions about what happened just because of their job title.
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [prana800] [ In reply to ]
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The @$$holes that would show up 30 min after the perps were gone and take a report? Then probably meet said perps 20 min after that and split the lute? :-)
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [logella] [ In reply to ]
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And on the same day in LA:

LOS ANGELES — Federal agents charged 18 current and former members of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department on Monday, accusing them of excessive use of force and obstruction of justice as part of a sprawling, yearslong investigation into allegations of misconduct and abuse of inmates in county jails, federal law enforcement officials said.

- Not to imply that all cops are bad, but LA doesn't strike me as the ideal policing model. From the available information, there doesn't seem to be much explanation beyond raw negligence. And yet, I bet the worst thing that might happen to the cop would be 2 weeks unpaid leave. That seems to be the life value of a cyclist in our society.
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [Rokko] [ In reply to ]
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Rokko wrote:
and then bashing cops as a field.

Where is this?

Rokko wrote:
make assumptions about what happened just because of their job title.
Where is this?


http://www.jt10000.com/
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [SpaceKitty] [ In reply to ]
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Rokko wrote:
But this fact does not mean all cops are good at all times. There are bad cops out there. There are corrupt cops. Cops that use excessive force. Cops that run over cyclists in bike lanes.

To put it simply, Los Angeles leads the country in the employment of "thuggish" cops. It really isn't anything new to those of us who live out here. It doesn't help that the chief (Lee Baca) is a scumbag himself who works his magic to get constituents and celebrities out of jail. I don't think in the 15 yrs I've lived out here that I haven't seen a cruiser breaking the law, whether it be driving well above the speed limit (no lights) on the 405 or sailing through a neighborhood stop sign (a weekly observance living near an intersection and a police station). Any attempt to report ANYTHING to a watch commander will put you on an unfortunate blacklist which has happened to me and 2 separate neighbors (whose children have repeatedly dealt with near-misses by police cruisers).

Point is, outside of LA I'm sure there are squeaky-clean police officers who protect the public. And there possibly is a percentage of LA officers who somehow manage to avoid corruption. But I can certainly sympathize with anyone who lives out here who is getting sick & tired of the LAPD's behavior in the past 2 decades.

PS. We have several large dogs, 3 machetes, and multiple firearms. A perp would be long dead before a "cop" arrived at our house.
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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Hello AlanShearer and All,

I agree ................. however is is not always a conscious decision by the motorist to not be vigilant (because the motorist may not have the ability to perceive the objects in front of the motor car) ...... and this human problem is occupation independent ................ we are all subject to not perceiving objects in front of the windscreen when driving on occasion.

I think motorists get off easy when crashing a cyclist and I agree more responsibility should be assigned to motorists along with much stiffer penalties.

The human condition (disabilities, brain wiring, vision blind spots, fatigue, etc.) and traffic engineering conspire to produce motorist crashes. About 30,000 humans killed each year in US car crashes [NHTSA] and thousands more injured and crippled. There are over 5,000,000 motorist crashes each year in the US [NHTSA] or 10,000,000 [Insurance industry data].

The data supports the statement that many motorists are horseshit drivers.

Newly available automated motorcar systems that provide lane departure notification and correction along with auto braking should help prevent some of these crashes.

The NHTSA studies indicate that motor car drivers are dangerous to cyclists’ and pedestrians’ health ……. and that there is value in separated facilities for cyclists and pedestrians …. and scientific justification for funding such separated facilities for greater pedestrian and cyclist safety.

This US NHTSA study appears to lend credence to the Australian study with a similar name … 100 Car Naturalistic Driving Study:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/NRD/Multimedia/PDFs/Crash%20Avoidance/Driver%20Distraction/100CarMain.pdf

The 100-Car Naturalistic Driving Study database contains many extreme cases of driving behavior and performance, including severe fatigue, impairment, judgment error, risk taking, willingness to engage in secondary tasks, aggressive driving, and traffic violations.

The data set includes approximately 2,000,000 vehicle miles, almost 43,000 hours of data, 241 primary and secondary drivers, 12 to 13 months of data collection for each vehicle, and data from a highly capable instrumentation system including five channels of video and vehicle kinematics. From the data, an “event” database was created, similar in classification structure to an epidemiological crash database, but with video and electronic driver and vehicle performance data.

The events are crashes, near crashes and other “incidents.” Data was classified by pre-event maneuver, precipitating factor, event type, contributing factors, and the avoidance maneuver exhibited. Parameters such as vehicle speed, vehicle headway, time-to-collision, and driver reaction time are also recorded.

Of particular interest in the analyses of rear-end conflict contributing factors was the prevalence of distraction.

An important aspect in rear-end crash countermeasure development is the degree to which an un-alerted driver can be warned and make a proper response. Of course, the 100-Car data can provide great insight into the degree to which distraction is an issue in such conflicts.

The important finding in this regard is that 93 percent of all lead vehicle crashes (13 out of 14) involved inattention to the forward roadway as a contributing factor (Figure 8).

Note also that a majority (68 percent) of the near crashes have inattention identified as a contributing factor.

=======================

The published data I have seen point to the value of more and better infrastructure in cities like New York, Portland, Minneapolis for improving cycling safety and increasing cycling transportation share.

This TED talk a couple of days ago was on point for city infrastructure (including separated bike lanes):

http://www.ted.com/...t=button__2013-12-06

And this one from a couple of months ago:

http://www.ted.com/talks/janette_sadik_khan_new_york_s_streets_not_so_mean_any_more.html


Cheers,

Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Post deleted by windschatten [ In reply to ]
Post deleted by Mr. October [ In reply to ]
Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
....He made a mistake going over the limit and swerving?....
It wasn't a mistake, it was an accident. The bottom half of his doughnut fell into his coffee. In a valiant effort to rescue the drowning victim he dropped what he was doing and heroically dived in to save the now soaked piece of doughnut. Sadly just as he was recovering the fallen a cyclist rudely bumped his car and thwarted his rescue attempt. The officer will be rewarded with a medal after receiving serious burns to his fingers. The cyclist will be charged with obstructing an officer in the line of duty.
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [sharkbait_au] [ In reply to ]
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sharkbait_au wrote:
windschatten wrote:
....He made a mistake going over the limit and swerving?....

It wasn't a mistake, it was an accident. The bottom half of his doughnut fell into his coffee. In a valiant effort to rescue the drowning victim he dropped what he was doing and heroically dived in to save the now soaked piece of doughnut. Sadly just as he was recovering the fallen a cyclist rudely bumped his car and thwarted his rescue attempt. The officer will be rewarded with a medal after receiving serious burns to his fingers. The cyclist will be charged with obstructing an officer in the line of duty.

Posthumously. Because if we don't act now, the cyclists will have won.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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"One word:

HYBRIS."

this is a serious subject and i don't mean to make light. but. this made my morning.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [prana800] [ In reply to ]
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prana800 wrote:
jt10000 wrote:
prana800 wrote:
trihard4me wrote:
What an F@ckin A$$hole.... I hope this cop gets prosecuted. The fact remains the police officier killed this man with a deadly weapon and the man was not armed and just riding his bike in the bike lane. The cop was probably following too close behind him or not paying attention, either way he killed a man that he was PAID to PROTECT.


Dude seriously? I hope no one ever breaks into your house and you have to call one of those "A$$holes."

Yes, because cursing at this particular policeman who killed someone apparently for no reason is equivalent to criticizing all policeman. Yes indeed it is. Or at least this cop hopes that the attitude the public and any potential jury take.

Can't call a cop out for something terrible since that's attacking all the men and women in blue. Yessiree.


It is the way he called him out. If he did something negligent that caused the death, then the officer is in the wrong and he should receive disciplinary action, whether it be through the court system or through the LASO or both. They do call them accidents for a reason however, and if that was the case, then it was a tragic one. Calling him a F@ckin A$$hole, kind of over the top. Statements such as "The cop was probably following too close..." and "not paying attention" are simply innuendoes with no justifiable factual basis. It is the same thing as calling someone a doper just because they had a great time or finished first. And since we all know how good cyclists are at obeying traffic laws...


You mean like hitting him from behind, and killing him in broad daylight in a bike lane? What the hell are you talking about? Did a tree fall on the road and forced him to swerve? A child maybe? No. He just hit someone. He DID something negligent: he was driving and not paying attention. How much longer do we need
to tolerate this shit? How many people need to die?? Unfuckingbelievable.
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Here are the facts reported:
  • The collision occurred at 1pm.
  • The cyclist was in a wide bicycle only lane.
  • The speed limit on the road was 25mph.
  • The cyclist and the police vehicle were traveling in the same direction.
  • The police officer was on routine patrol.
  • The police officer was NOT responding to an emergency call.
  • The cyclist was run into from behind.
  • There was enough differential in speed that the cyclist struck the vehicle windshield, smashing it.
  • The bike ended up under the front tires of the vehicle.
  • The cyclist was pronounced dead at the scene.
  • The officer went to the hospital with glass in the eyes and cuts on his forearm from when the cyclist hit the windshield.



Now for ancillary information:
  • The cyclist was a prominent attorney who was partners in a prominent law firm.



My conclusions are that the officer was clearly wrong. He had no business driving in the bicycle lane or speeding. The LASO and the PO will have a substantial lawsuit filed against them and will likely be held financially responsible.

I think the officer should be and likely will be fired, unless he can demonstrate some overwhelmingly mitigating circumstances to explain his actions. His actions killed someone who was not a threat to himself, others or society ... who was literally one of the people the officer was employed to protect. He had demonstrated incompetence at his job.

This story makes me sad on several levels. For the deceased. For his family. For the realization of just how precarious it is to cycle, even doing whatever we can to be safe. For the reminder that while we can do all we can to be safe ... none of us have any control over all the other drivers on the road who might not be doing enough for all of us to be safe.
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
One word:

HYBRIS.

Few law enforcement officers care to lead by example.
Street duty/patrol should be an honor and not considered a punishment...

He made a mistake going over the limit and swerving?
I think it would take a little more than just ONE mistake to end up with what he did.

Too much distracted driving by cops I see every day.

I find that Pickup Trucks and Cops Crusiers are the worst individual auto drivers on the road as a it relates to a cyclist. They pass you at high speeds, way too close and if you give them the one finger bird they pull over and fu@k with you. I've had a couple cop pull me over because I flipped them off because they passed me too close only to have them fu@k with me. Hybris is absolutely correct for some of these cops.
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, I almost spit out my coffee laughing so hard.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [trihard4me] [ In reply to ]
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trihard4me wrote:
Hybris is absolutely correct for some of these cops.
Are they driving Priuses?

-----
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Not so sure why this is funny? It's perfectly appropriate for diacrit over the upsilon in Greek to be translated into English either as an "hu" or a "hy".

Hubris /ˈhjuːbrɪs/, also hybris, from ancient Greek ὕβρις, means extreme pride or arrogance.

Seems to me that he rather nailed it.


~~ db

edited to add: apparently your software doesn't allow for Greek alphabet symbols. :(
Last edited by: dreaming~big: Dec 10, 13 7:46
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Re: LA cop hits and kills cyclist in bike lane [CPA_PFS] [ In reply to ]
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CPA_PFS wrote:

I think the officer should be and likely will be fired, unless he can demonstrate some overwhelmingly mitigating circumstances to explain his actions. His actions killed someone who was not a threat to himself, others or society ... who was literally one of the people the officer was employed to protect. He had demonstrated incompetence at his job.

Never underestimate the power of the thin blue line. Or the Union.

As we see all too often, a cyclist doesn't receive the benfefit of the doubt. In this case, the aforementioned will be serious forces to be reckoned with.
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