I was thinking that as well. The list of athletes who have won 60% of their races or events against the field is probably pretty small across all sports. Bekele is probably on the list. Maybe Geb or Kipchoge (though the latter wasn’t always winning on the track which would bring his win rate down). Not sure if any cyclist would be up there (since placing is kind of odd with all of the different as you’ve got stage races and one day races). I don’t follow swimming at all, but maybe Phelps?

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Matt

I don’t follow swimming at all, but maybe Phelps?


To compare apples to apples, it would have to be an individual sport, not cycling or other team sports. And Phelps probably has won way more than 60%, guess it depends on when you start and stop counting. But he would be batting over 90% I would say if you counted national, world, and olympic championships.

To be honest, that is 2015. JG wins have doubled since then.

However who would dare to claim this is the ITU track record of the goat https://www.triathlon.org/...lts/5692/jan_frodeno

The Brownlees and Gomez beat Frodo by over a minute in the Olympics with them all in there prime you could argue, Frodo was chased out of SC by the three of them, Frodo does have an Olympic gold but he won't go down as a SC great.

He only has two Kona wins, which puts him significantly down on wins on Dave Scott and Mark Allan, granted he's probably achieved the most at various distances, but this isn't enough to make him the GOAT in my opinion.

Was from June 2016, only "head to head" comparison I could find on the internets. I only count 3 JG WTS wins since then though. Am I missing something?
https://www.triathlon.org/...95/javier_gomez_noya

Agree with you to a certain degree about Jan. No one would ever claim he was even a top 10 all time ITU guy. But,...given his body and breadth of work WINNING big races and setting records along the way it's hard to ignore him. He won an Olympic gold. Gomez didn't. He won Kona twice, Gomez didn't. Etc.

Like I said, if you asked me to pick 1 guy for a season of racing distances between sprint to 140.6 I'd pick JG in a second. Just don't think you can be the GOAT when you've never won an Olympic gold or Kona.

Like I said, if you asked me to pick 1 guy for a season of racing distances between sprint to 140.6 I'd pick JG in a second. Just don't think you can be the GOAT when you've never won an Olympic gold or Kona.

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I've always thought that Gomez was the best all around triathlete we've ever seen. The depth of racing he can race and win is pretty incredible. But on the other hand I've always thought that AB (and with his Kona wins now Frodo), is more the best "one day racer". AB particular with respect to his career. He's always been injured since about 2013 and yet he's a double gold medal winner. He just wins, but he's also missing a lot of races that I think would "skew" those stats. AB seems to have only raced when he's on since about 2014 (beyond Rio test event).

So I think they are both the best at each "category" and I dont really want to say one is better than the other. I think it's just a fairly accurate assessment of the results.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Someone can correct me. But the ITU doesn't have a Long Distance Circuit, so the LD World Championship is a one off race and isn't a real test for 70.3 athletes. Although it's a World Championship, it's not a real one per se. Outside of Bozzone I have no idea who the rest of this field is.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

In terms of this argument I think Gomez going back down to SC doesn't do him any favours, Gomez winning Kona would do much more for his legacy among Triathlon nerds than winning Tokyo I think.

Javi is the Phil Mickelson of Triathlon... (I realize that this argument is outdated, because Phil has since won a major)... The best to never win one of the majors... He's always there or therabouts, regardless of distance... He's been incredibly consistent and durable... the injuries that took him out were silly crash related things, not over training type injuries like the Brownlees have dealt with (Bad timing with the Rio run up obviously)...

Folks are being a bit harsh on Frodo's ITU career too... he was certainly not on an AB/JG level, but it's not like he was a schlub... And his olympic win was legit, that was a hell of a race for sure, one of the more epic finishes (obviously save for the Norden/Spirig photo finish for gold)...

Great summary and I agree. AB is legendary when it comes to one day events that he targeted. There is no one quite like him. JG has be extraordinary for long time over a variety of distances and his performances in season long events is unparalleled. His versatility is also one for the ages in winning the ITU WC, 70.3 WC and XTERRA WC are all very different race formats. Wherever he races, it is exciting!

Jack

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

What? The guy with more world championships never won a major? What is a major for you?

On that front it's a pity that Simon Whitfield didn't have a proper go at 70.3. He was another athlete that targeted individual races very well. However, he, I guess, he more of a national hero in Canada then triathlete so financially didn't need to carry on.

x2
Same thing with most sports. take tennis for example, just watch thoose three top ones. Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are best ever by far and also during the best period of tennis.

Harder for a guy like Gomez who had won Olympics if there wasnt any Brownlee. Triathlon is still evolving so the competition has been an upgrade in general.

i think something very telling about gomez is the following thought experiment:

if he showed up at the start line of a race, would he be considered a threat to win?

the answer for javi is yes, at every distance from sprint to IM, on-road and off. that's pretty shocking, and in the history of tri it's a vanishingly small number of people we can say that about. (greg welch comes to mind.) if frodo showed up at an ITU race today, for instance, people wouldn't expect much from him. similarly, mario mola would be a curiosity at IM, but nobody would be counting on him to win.

javi, on the other hand, is generally respected as a legitimate threat for a podium (if not a win) at basically every start line he toes, including kona, the olympics, xterra, and world half champs against an epic field.

he's the real deal.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

i totally agree with you. Gomez and maybe Brownlee are a threat in every race they enter.
Frodo may do better than what people expect but lower expections for sure

LOL! did you even watch south africa world champs last year?

again, the point isn't that frodo won in south africa.

it's that if there was a super-sprint tomorrow, or an IM, or a half, or an olympic, or an xterra, javi would be considered a serious podium threat in ALL of them. that's . . . incredible. frodo would be considered the podium threat in the full and the half, and sure, might surprise us at the olympic (but on long odds). for the rest, forget it.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I get your point that they are often on podium, and short course racing allows for more oppurtunities. But how can you compare if not head to head racing. Frodo might not podium at itu at 36 years old, but he won all key championship races at all distances. He did win more gold at short than the other 2 won kona podiums so far(they arent retiring yet i know)

What we do know is that in SA the 3 goats finally raced medium face to face... Frodo 36 already content enough with his career to retire but home town world champs...less quick short course training/racing in his legs, but why not?

1 long/medium specialist...
versus 1 short specialist....
versus 1 short/medium specialist....
.....exciting race but Frodo blew the doors off the competition

i very much agree with you that Frodo won worlds in south Africa.

otherwise I think we're talking past each other here.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I saw the results from that race (South African race), yes. I said the expectiations are higher on Brownlee and Gomez.. That has nothing to do with the outcome of the race.
Frodo did for a exceptional race. Impressive for sure

Aliaster wasn't run fit, if he was I think there would have been a different outcome.

[/quote]
C'mon, Gomez only raced Kona 1x, how can you be fair in your statement? "He won Kona twice, Gomez didn't..." Did you even read what you wrote? To judge JG when he just arrived on the ultra scene is premature. We have no idea what he will do these next few years with more experience. I don't think he will win a Kona ever, myself...IMO, but possibly top 3.

Also, to compare Dave & Mark...they never had the Olympics so we won't know. Mark had a 21 win streak /2 season stretch undefeated in his career from what I recall. Ended by Mike Pigg. Has anyone currently active, including Mola, done that in short course? Alistar? Frodo? I really don't think so. Nobody active will win 6 Ironman races. Not even Lange. They are either too old or not dominating regularly with the deep fields. The front pack is much closer than what most think in Kona. Let's see Lange try to string 4 more of these together...

Ali Brownlee for me. Put everyone on the start line, in any format (draft/non draft) & at their absolute best, and he wins. His London Olympics race was, to me, as close to perfect as you can get.

I would agree, if you put any Triathlete in there prime on there best day next to a fully fit Ali Brownlee 70.3 or below distance he beats them probably 9/10

I don't think this makes him the GOAT though.