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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [Bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
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Bonesbrigade wrote:
It's really just about getting your body used to the pounding and the movement of running without injuring yourself, and then relying on your cycling fitness to carry you along.

^This

__________________________________________________
Happy trails,
Chris
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
if you cannot do it on a treadmill at a steady pace, then you are toast Raceday, maybe fake an injury and punt.. (-;

Ehh... treadmills are my kryptonite, and the same is true of others. I run way faster outdoors on a real surface, even with some hills.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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lyrrad wrote:
Just go for a run with some 11 year old schoolgirls, if you can keep up you are sorted.

This brings back terrible memories of a 15k I was in. I kept pace with a team of middle school cross country girls - figuring they were going to do negative splits and had good pacing and were probably going to me somewhere in my speed realm. Oh how wrong could I have been. By mile like 5 they were clipping 6 min miles and then hit another girl and lost me around mile 5.5

All 5'3, 80 lbs of them. They even lost their coach haha

lets say I was slightly embarrassed as I was dying and they were casually talking about gossip as they hit that next gear
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
Bet you'll go 26 minutes. First mile @8 then pace will drop to 9. Running is very different from cycling and 2 weeks is not enough time. 2 months is a maybe.

I haven't run in a few years but I think this is bogus. If someone on slowtwitch offers to send me a new set of race wheels I'm confident I can bust out a 25 minute 5k without a single prep run.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
I am super-curious, so I hope you do it, and I hope you post the outcome. But, if I were a betting man, I would bet on probably not.

On one hand, it seems like anyone with a decent engine could run an 8 min/mi pace for 25 minutes.

However, most race predictors would convert a 10 min/mi HM to a 5K in the high 20 minute range. And, a 25 min. 5K is in the top 15% to 20% of most local races. So, it is probably unlikely that you could show up and run a top 20% 5K with no preparations.

With two weeks to go, there's pretty much zero opportunity to build any run fitness. The good news is, I believe there's more than enough innate fitness here to be able to run a 25:00 5k. I'm a 48 year old, 80+kg competitive swimmer who occasionally dabbles with running, biking, and triathlon between seasons. On a couple of occasions in the last two years, I have pulled together a 25 min 5k on almost no run training. If I can, a 3+watts/kilo cyclist almost certainly can.


JackL wrote:
If you're not used to running, there's a danger you'll go out too hard and implode, same as in a TT. So for any training runs before the showdown I'd be getting familiar with pacing.

I agree, pacing familiarization will be key. 1st workout would be a SLOW 5k (6-7min/km running pace, walking if necessary) just to get the muscles and joints primed. After that, you want to build what muscle memory you can of a ~4:55/km pace. I'd recommend something like a 6-8 x (400m run @ 4:55/km pace, walk 100m)

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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The Bolt file converted over fine. Not a good start. Ran while the boys were in their bikes. Had to slow up for the little one over a few foot bridges but still only about an 8:20 splits once rolling at a time trial heart rate. Excuse? Maybe having accumulated 600 TSS on the bike by Thursday had something to do with it. I usually only get about 400 a week in 7 days. Whatever.

I’ll have a go at it again and when rested. Also when cooler outside.

Legs were fine. For a try with the boys on bikes it was plenty for a trial workout. Given legs were good I feel with less TSS in a week the HR would have been lower so I could push the pace more. That’s a telltale sign of fatigue.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I had some attempts at training for a 5km parkrun, and they always resulted in me not actually doing one because I became injured. So one off-season I decided the best way to do it was to simply make the 5km parkrun the first running I did. That way I wouldn't be injured before starting. I did 24:05, and all sorts of bits of my legs ached for about a week afterwards, but I wasn't injured. I then tried to train in the hope of doing another one in a faster time, but got injured.......
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I had given up on this due to lots of bike volume during good weather to ready for a gravel grinder, as I'd rather ride. Now that it is off season and cold out for riding, I'm doing some running for the really wonderful time expenditure versus aerobic benefit.

For about a month I've done 90min of run per week. Usually 30min once, and an hour the other. That's all. Also starting some core/stabilizer workouts now to prevent injuries on the off days from the bike.


Last night 25:34 including about 1:00 total stopping for a crosswalk and stopping to massage a calf. Well shit, I'd of had it.

Also, route was ~270 feet gain/loss for 5k. About 7:30/mi on the flats.

So, it is possible.

Still don't have enough legs to match the heart/lungs engine from the bike. Needs more routine miles for a few more months.

I'm guessing if I keep up with it I should be able to get the 5k and 10k times down a lot in the coming year.

I think I'll pair the long runs by doing a reverse brick to maximize my time. When I have time for a long run/bike ride, I need to make the best of it. If I reverse brick it, I feel I can use my time wisely AND prevent run injury by not running tired.

The only reason to reverse brick being the fact I have the time now, but maybe not later to separate the activities.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
I have a fun one............


The wife is the runner. I'm the cyclist and can swim OK. I loathe running. If chased by a predator, I may get away well enough. Otherwise, bike or pool.

She doesn't think I could do a 5k in 25min or less. I think I could do it right now. If I win, I can go ahead and get that rear carbon wheel I have my eyes on.

I'm nobody to write home about fitness wise, but I'm not a slouch either. I ride about 100mi a week every week with about 1/3 of that pretty intense intervals.

If I swapped a few workouts for two weeks from the bike to the running shoes, what would you do other than running a 5k distance to win the bet? I'm pretty decent at 10 mile individual time trial pacing.

What's the over/under on success and what would you do if you had 4 workouts in 2 weeks to play with?

Also, anyone know if a cycling computer activity will convert over on Strava nicely if I used it on a run?


Not going to give you any training advise....you already got some good ideas listed....just wanted to say good luck getting your wheel and that was a pretty smart bet.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
I have a fun one............


The wife is the runner. I'm the cyclist and can swim OK. I loathe running. If chased by a predator, I may get away well enough. Otherwise, bike or pool.

She doesn't think I could do a 5k in 25min or less. I think I could do it right now. If I win, I can go ahead and get that rear carbon wheel I have my eyes on.

I'm nobody to write home about fitness wise, but I'm not a slouch either. I ride about 100mi a week every week with about 1/3 of that pretty intense intervals.

If I swapped a few workouts for two weeks from the bike to the running shoes, what would you do other than running a 5k distance to win the bet? I'm pretty decent at 10 mile individual time trial pacing.

What's the over/under on success and what would you do if you had 4 workouts in 2 weeks to play with?

Also, anyone know if a cycling computer activity will convert over on Strava nicely if I used it on a run?

Unless I overlooked it, I didn't see what she would get if she wins the bet.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [DV8R] [ In reply to ]
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DV8R wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:
I have a fun one............


The wife is the runner. I'm the cyclist and can swim OK. I loathe running. If chased by a predator, I may get away well enough. Otherwise, bike or pool.

She doesn't think I could do a 5k in 25min or less. I think I could do it right now. If I win, I can go ahead and get that rear carbon wheel I have my eyes on.

I'm nobody to write home about fitness wise, but I'm not a slouch either. I ride about 100mi a week every week with about 1/3 of that pretty intense intervals.

If I swapped a few workouts for two weeks from the bike to the running shoes, what would you do other than running a 5k distance to win the bet? I'm pretty decent at 10 mile individual time trial pacing.

What's the over/under on success and what would you do if you had 4 workouts in 2 weeks to play with?

Also, anyone know if a cycling computer activity will convert over on Strava nicely if I used it on a run?

Unless I overlooked it, I didn't see what she would get if she wins the bet.

The used wheel in question was about $300. She ended up getting some hired help around the house for stuff we would never normally pay for. I offered a new run/tri watch for her as hers is old and glitches, but asked for the other stuff instead.

I may renew the bet for 2019 with getting to 22min or something.

I’d like to attempt a duathlon or sprint but loathe the thought of having a Jekyl and Hyde bike split vs run split.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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go to a Tm, warm up, put it at 7.5mps and see if you can hold that for 15-20min. If yes, you should have no problem. Do it at a track if you like, If no, then you will have to train and not get hurt, which will be the hard part. People here telling you to do running intervals are wrong, you almost certainly hurt yourself.
25 minutes may very well be doable for you right now.

HOWEVER, do you really want to win a bet with your wife? Will you really "win" when it is all said and done? Let her have running, and just buy the wheel.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [DBF] [ In reply to ]
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DBF wrote:
go to a Tm, warm up, put it at 7.5mps and see if you can hold that for 15-20min. If yes, you should have no problem. Do it at a track if you like, If no, then you will have to train and not get hurt, which will be the hard part. People here telling you to do running intervals are wrong, you almost certainly hurt yourself.
25 minutes may very well be doable for you right now.

HOWEVER, do you really want to win a bet with your wife? Will you really "win" when it is all said and done? Let her have running, and just buy the wheel.

Original post was nearly 18 months ago. I had given it up.

I bumped the topic because I took up run in the off season and saw some gains.

That’s all. Usually I check the date on the most recent post before reread of the rest of the topic.

I’ve long built the bikes up I was after on my own outside of any bet.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [DBF] [ In reply to ]
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DBF wrote:
go to a Tm, warm up, put it at 7.5mps and see if you can hold that for 15-20min

You meal Miles Per Hour, not Meters Per Second, right?

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart wrote:
DBF wrote:
go to a Tm, warm up, put it at 7.5mps and see if you can hold that for 15-20min

You meal Miles Per Hour, not Meters Per Second, right?

Since that's about 16 mph... I think burnthesheep should give it a go! Please get video....
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
....I’d like to attempt a duathlon or sprint but loathe the thought of having a Jekyl and Hyde bike split vs run split.
Who cares?
I love duathlons but I'm a pretty poor/average runner.
My best 5km is around 21:30

In every race I get onto the bike well down the field, spend the bike leg picking off large numbers of better runners and then spend the second run trying to hold off as many as I can from re-overtaking me. I make up more time on the bike than I lose on the run, compared to most.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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I want to see a sub 22min 10mi TT and a sub 22min 5k someday.

Someday probably being years.

The run I don’t have the years in the legs to get after it like I can on the bike.

My 5k HR from the other night averaged a LOT lower than my TT HR on the bike. No legs to run still.

I’ll keep at it and post up again in a few months.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I read through the thread, just to confirm, you lost the bet right?
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [NUFCrichard] [ In reply to ]
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NUFCrichard wrote:
I read through the thread, just to confirm, you lost the bet right?

Oh yeah I lost. I didn’t have in more than like 3 mpw back in 2017. Not even close, like a minute off.

She got some things for it I listed above. I ended up scrounging selling some car parts I had held onto and a nice golf putter to fund a wheel.

I may try something for 2019 though.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
and a sub 22min 5k someday.

Someday probably being years.

.

I am primarily a cyclist and swimmer as well and I have been working towards a sub-20 for many moons now and fear it may never happen. Being 6'2" and 180lbs, shaving 30 odd seconds per minute off each KM is tough.

Being a lighter guy with some good aerobic fitness you should be able to do sub-25 min but you'll find what look like small steps can actually be pretty huge leaps.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [TriSolo] [ In reply to ]
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TriSolo wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:
and a sub 22min 5k someday.

Someday probably being years.

.


I am primarily a cyclist and swimmer as well and I have been working towards a sub-20 for many moons now and fear it may never happen. Being 6'2" and 180lbs, shaving 30 odd seconds per minute off each KM is tough.

Being a lighter guy with some good aerobic fitness you should be able to do sub-25 min but you'll find what look like small steps can actually be pretty huge leaps.

Yeah, gotta have some kind of pipe dream I guess. I do typically fluctuate weight in the 150's. So I have that going for me.

More so, I just want a reasonable 5k and 10k pace so that if I broaden my training groups from only cycling groups and someone wants to do a brick or a run......I can actually say I'd go with them instead of being worried about holding them back.

I can't imagine a 10:00/mi pace for a triathlete being very invigorating if I tagged along for a 10k run. Or be able to speak/converse during a run and not die.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
TriSolo wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:
and a sub 22min 5k someday.

Someday probably being years.

.


I am primarily a cyclist and swimmer as well and I have been working towards a sub-20 for many moons now and fear it may never happen. Being 6'2" and 180lbs, shaving 30 odd seconds per minute off each KM is tough.

Being a lighter guy with some good aerobic fitness you should be able to do sub-25 min but you'll find what look like small steps can actually be pretty huge leaps.


Yeah, gotta have some kind of pipe dream I guess. I do typically fluctuate weight in the 150's. So I have that going for me.

More so, I just want a reasonable 5k and 10k pace so that if I broaden my training groups from only cycling groups and someone wants to do a brick or a run......I can actually say I'd go with them instead of being worried about holding them back.

I can't imagine a 10:00/mi pace for a triathlete being very invigorating if I tagged along for a 10k run. Or be able to speak/converse during a run and not die.
The important thing is to ensure any group runs with faster training buddies are planned as a slow run for them and a fast run for you!
The difference between an easy run and a fast run is pretty big. And most (sensible) runners will do most of their distance at a relatively easy pace (for them). Even if they are much faster than you, it's quite possible their easy run pace will be something you can manage. Having said that, it might not be an ideal training pace for you.

I usually do my easy runs around 6:00-6:30/km pace depending on the time of year, terrain and my mood. Fast steady state runs would be more like 4:50-5:10/km and hard anything from about 4:00-4:30/km depending on interval length. I haven't done it in a while but I used to run with a few much faster friends from time to time. I would be working reasonably hard, but not at my limit, while they were cruising on a slow run but we could happily run together. They would often do a longer run which would be unrealistic for me at my higher intensity, so I'd just let them at it and finish sooner. No shame in it. It's not like they were fooled into thinking I was fast. They'd seen me race!
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
I have a fun one............


The wife is the runner. I'm the cyclist and can swim OK. I loathe running. If chased by a predator, I may get away well enough. Otherwise, bike or pool.

She doesn't think I could do a 5k in 25min or less. I think I could do it right now. If I win, I can go ahead and get that rear carbon wheel I have my eyes on.

I'm nobody to write home about fitness wise, but I'm not a slouch either. I ride about 100mi a week every week with about 1/3 of that pretty intense intervals.

If I swapped a few workouts for two weeks from the bike to the running shoes, what would you do other than running a 5k distance to win the bet? I'm pretty decent at 10 mile individual time trial pacing.

What's the over/under on success and what would you do if you had 4 workouts in 2 weeks to play with?

Also, anyone know if a cycling computer activity will convert over on Strava nicely if I used it on a run?


You need to do two things for this "race": raise your cardiovascular ceiling and maximize the percent of that ceiling you can maintain for the duration of the event.

The best 5k fitness I ever had (last year, ~18:30s) was obtained by doing virtually nothing other than 1 mile repeats and 5k time trial workouts every two or three days, for a total of about 12 miles per week, including warmup. Training volume is entirely overrated for races under 10k (and probably over 10k also). They're difficult workouts, but you'll build insane run fitness.

Edit: I missed the 2 week deadline thing. Definitely, as others have said, do a best effort time trial ASAP, then run several workouts of 0.5 to 1 mile best-effort repeats, totaling about 3 miles per workout (not counting warmup). It is estimated that positive acclimation to an endurance exercise bout takes about a week to materialize, so don't do anything overly strenuous in the week of your "race". Mental game thereafter. Best of luck.

---------------------------------------------------------------

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm
Last edited by: domingjm: Jan 17, 19 11:02
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [domingjm] [ In reply to ]
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Have been doing a lot of road race (bike) prep recently, and had the race Sunday.

Yesterday at lunch I went out to run a 5k because I want to try a duathlon in a couple weeks and need the run volume to go back up again a touch. I've run slower with the wife and kids a few times recently, and a good bit in winter (for me, for you guys it would be considered nothing).

I was feeling surprisingly good running, looked at the time/pace and decided to give it a shot.

Got it.....total time was 24:32 for it, but had to wait to cross the road twice for a a bit. Moving time was 23:35. Most splits were under 7:00/mi, time was lost constantly turning around.

I was doing lots of u-turns in this little neighborhood beside where I work. It's the safest bet around. Also, lost some time running in wet high grass for 1/4 mile too along the busy road as some absurd strange burst of traffic was coming.

Cliffs......got it.

I'm done here.............just wanted to give an update that I did eventually do it.

Goal for the duathlon is to break 2 hours including T1/T2. It's 5k/30k/5k. I figure 28, 2, 55, 2, 28 = 115. At this point 9:00/mi feels pretty slow even after biking. The bike leg at 55min would be slow, for me. If I TT'd that versus running after I'm sure I could do 23mph or more.
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Re: Help me win a running bet while staying under the radar [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I'm assuming Cary Du?

They changed the run course this year, should be fairly flat and much easier than in years past where they ran to the greenway (you had to jump over like a small creek). The bike course is one of my favorites. Horton's Pond was paved last year and is so much faster now than it was pre-repavement.

Martha's Chapel as always is the fun road on our IOS group that breaks up the "men from the boys". Slightly uphill the whole way.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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