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Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter
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Dan, nice write up! One question for you. When it’s time to replace chain rings, would it be possible to do it with out taking the crankset out of the bottom bracket? My concern is that connecting wire could be damaged if crankset is removed.

Rex
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [ironmanrex] [ In reply to ]
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ironmanrex wrote:
Dan, nice write up! One question for you. When it’s time to replace chain rings, would it be possible to do it with out taking the crankset out of the bottom bracket? My concern is that connecting wire could be damaged if crankset is removed.

you can change the rings on this crank at any time, don't need to take the crank off, don't need to recalibrate. just change the rings. you may also find at some point that you just want to change them for the gearing. there are some things i didn't mention, because i had in my head "power meter" rather than "crankset". one thing i'm critical of is the power meter that fails as a component. a pedal-based power meter needs to be a really good pedal, for example, not just the host for a power meter.

this crank has the following options, some of which will be qualifiers, some disqualifiers. ring options are 55-42, 54-42, 53-39, 52-36, 50-34. that's good. less good is that the crankarm lengths are 170mm, 172.5mm, 175mm. it would be nice of the crankarms came in shorter lengths. that's a disqualifier for some. i just sent a direct mail piece out 2 or so weeks ago about an infocrank closeout i know about, $550 for a $1,400 crankset power meter, with crank lengths down to 155mm. (those went about 15min after i sent out that emailer; i'm not selling them; but the seller told me that). some folks will need the shorter crankarms and infocrank and ROTOR are the best for that.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
. one thing i'm critical of is the power meter that fails as a component. a pedal-based power meter needs to be a really good pedal, for example, not just the host for a power meter.

I agree, but I also think that the raison d'etre for a power meter is that its data will answer questions or solve riddles. When the question is tough or the riddle is obdurate it's a pain when you have one more question than before and it's "Is this thing working right?"
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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https://gplama.com/...ankset-power-meters/

Did you test for accuracy of the PM by a change? It’s gotten some pretty poor reviews to date.
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
some folks will need the shorter crankarms and infocrank and ROTOR are the best for that.

And FSA soon too.
I can't think of a good reason for Triathletes to be interested in the D-A powermeter - doesn't have useful lengths, at this point it's not accurate, only advantage is that it matches the rest of the groupset.
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
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Ohio_Roadie wrote:
https://gplama.com/2019/06/29/shimano-crankset-power-meters/

Did you test for accuracy of the PM by a change? It’s gotten some pretty poor reviews to date.

I'm happy to answer questions about the review. But you gotta read the review first. Did you do that?

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:
...only advantage is that it matches the rest of the groupset.

Well, at well under half the price you can have Favero Assioma pedals and still use the crank of your choice. So then the only use case is if you are, say, a Speedplay die hard and also a Dura Ace die hard. A pretty small use case. But it sure is pretty.

On the other hand, for all the hue and cry about how inaccurate this PM is, one-sided power meters have potentially much greater accuracy issues and there doesn't seem to be much of a hue and cry about those. We have a Stages that came with a second hand bike we bought, it read 10-20% off for both my wife and myself, the battery is now removed and it's relegated to use as a dumb crank on a trainer bike.
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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tttiltheend wrote:
On the other hand, for all the hue and cry about how inaccurate this PM is, one-sided power meters have potentially much greater accuracy issues and there doesn't seem to be much of a hue and cry about those.
The path was known, but there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Ohio_Roadie wrote:
https://gplama.com/2019/06/29/shimano-crankset-power-meters/

Did you test for accuracy of the PM by a change? It’s gotten some pretty poor reviews to date.

I'm happy to answer questions about the review. But you gotta read the review first. Did you do that?

I did, and you glided over the known inaccuracies of the Shimano PM.

In the instant case, you also appended the label of “influencer” to both bloggers right before you mentioned the issue of inaccuracy that these “influencers” noticed, never mind that the publishing of your own review is an act of influencing. I don’t know if it was intended to disparage and parry, but it came across that way, because you never addressed the substance of the well-known issue.

Had this review been published an year ago, it would have made for a fine review. But times have changed, and to have published this without a substantiative discussion of the accuracy issue makes the review seem a bit late and irrelevant.

PS. I should add that i generally hold a dim view of DCR (one of his boasts from a few tears back I found quite distasteful) and don’t often read Lama, but the latter’s critique of the Shimano PM (which i did read) at least appears valid and worthy of addressing, especially as similar issues were noticed on another PM based off of the same crank design.
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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just prove I read the article Dan I believe you have a typo: "Claimed accuracy is +/- 2°" I think you mean Claimed accuracy is +/- 2%"

As for accuracy and precision it seems that is for another day or left to DC Rainmaker and GP Lama? they certainly are set up to do that sort of thing.
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
less good is that the crankarm lengths are 170mm, 172.5mm, 175mm. it would be nice of the crankarms came in shorter lengths.

FWIW, you can get the 9100P in 165mm.
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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tttiltheend wrote:
cyclenutnz wrote:
...only advantage is that it matches the rest of the groupset.


Well, at well under half the price you can have Favero Assioma pedals and still use the crank of your choice. So then the only use case is if you are, say, a Speedplay die hard and also a Dura Ace die hard. A pretty small use case. But it sure is pretty.

On the other hand, for all the hue and cry about how inaccurate this PM is, one-sided power meters have potentially much greater accuracy issues and there doesn't seem to be much of a hue and cry about those. We have a Stages that came with a second hand bike we bought, it read 10-20% off for both my wife and myself, the battery is now removed and it's relegated to use as a dumb crank on a trainer bike.

i don't think these are all the parameters that frame this discussion. as for me, i'm a speedplay guy, a confirmed speedplay guy, on the road, and i'm not really interested in changing from speedplay until other pedal makers recognize and adopt speedplay's features. if you look at our overview of pedals among the top finishers in kona, it's also obvious that speedplay shines brightest among those who know and appreciate the features in a pedal. the features in this pedal makes this an untrivial component to the discussion.

as for shimano's cranks, this is the dominant crank in the marketplace. not just shimano, but stages, the questionable-futured pioneer, giant, and others place their PMs in this crank and in some cases only in this crank. so, one area i'm investigating is the paradox of PMing this crank: it's the world's premier crank platform, but it also, apparently, is uniquely ill-suited to hosting a PM. until someone figures this crank out. i write this not because of what i've discovered, but just based on what i'm reading from others who've put a lot more work into this than i have.

beyond this, i think you're right, a pedal-based PM sidesteps the difficulty in getting a PM to work on a shimano crank, and a pedal-based PM is modular. but as i wrote in the review - and i'd be shocked if even half the people commenting to this review even read it - the larger question going forward is whether PMs will eventually just be ubiquitous on bikes sold above a certain price, with that price creeping down, down, down. you have both bike brands (specialized and giant) near the ability to offer their own PMs OE, and you have component makers (SRAM, Shimano, FSA) working on it. if you get an FSA PM stocked OE on a $3,500 tri bike, or a Quarq on a SRAM Force AXS 1x gravel bike selling for under $4,000, that's going to apply pressure to the market.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [RKW] [ In reply to ]
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RKW wrote:
Slowman wrote:
less good is that the crankarm lengths are 170mm, 172.5mm, 175mm. it would be nice of the crankarms came in shorter lengths.


FWIW, you can get the 9100P in 165mm.

thanks. my mistake. it could be that shimano just hasn't updated it's website or that i'm reading it wrong. this is what i see there as of this morning:



Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
RKW wrote:
Slowman wrote:
less good is that the crankarm lengths are 170mm, 172.5mm, 175mm. it would be nice of the crankarms came in shorter lengths.


FWIW, you can get the 9100P in 165mm.


thanks. my mistake. it could be that shimano just hasn't updated it's website or that i'm reading it wrong. this is what i see there as of this morning:

Perhaps they discontinued it for 2020, but they had availability in both warehouses last time I ordered one (early January).

Nothing shorter than 165 was ever available, to my knowledge.

My N=1 experience is that the accuracy complaints of these powermeters is grossly exaggerated. All 3 of mine have matched my SRM & Kickr within less than a percent.
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:
Slowman wrote:
some folks will need the shorter crankarms and infocrank and ROTOR are the best for that.


And FSA soon too.
I can't think of a good reason for Triathletes to be interested in the D-A powermeter - doesn't have useful lengths, at this point it's not accurate, only advantage is that it matches the rest of the groupset.

i don't think that's fair. the PM also has a rarely-matched battery life, and it's a rechargable battery. it kind of reminds me of ROTOR's PM (the 2INpower), with a USB magnetic port charger applied to the crank. i think the shimano's battery life is a big deal. there's a number of habits i've had to acquire as an old boomer who came to adulthood several generations ago, one of which is to be vigilant about charging stuff at appropriate intervals. shifters, head unit, varia, any other lights i'm using, PM. tyre whiz. heat shield. photon torpedos. you forget one of these and you're about to commence your ride and... doh! i appreciate the battery life.

but i'm not here to champion this PM. were i to buy a new PM today this probably wouldn't be it. but, imagine if this PM comes out next year as an ultegra PM, and it's about a $600 upgrade from an ultegra crank. imagine shimano solves the unique issues that make its crank PM-unhappy. then what? yes, we have a crank length issue, even if this crank is made down to 165mm, but those who need cranks shorter than that are edge-case, and probably not part of shimano's mission.

we may be - what - a year away from a world where you can choose from a force axs PM, an ultegra PM, an FSA PM, as well as from giant and specialized, and these would all be candidates for OE. we may also be a short time away from a speedplay PM. did wahoo have any discussions with brim bros before they bought speedplay? i have no inside info from shimano or wahoo, but i'm not a compleat idiot. (there's a 60s reference there.)

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Ohio_Roadie wrote:
https://gplama.com/2019/06/29/shimano-crankset-power-meters/

Did you test for accuracy of the PM by a change? It’s gotten some pretty poor reviews to date.


I'm happy to answer questions about the review. But you gotta read the review first. Did you do that?


In the instant case, you also appended the label of “influencer” to both bloggers right before you mentioned the issue of inaccuracy that these “influencers” noticed, never mind that the publishing of your own review is an act of influencing. I don’t know if it was intended to disparage and parry, but it came across that way, because you never addressed the substance of the well-known issue.

Had this review been published an year ago, it would have made for a fine review. But times have changed, and to have published this without a substantiative discussion of the accuracy issue makes the review seem a bit late and irrelevant.

PS. I should add that i generally hold a dim view of DCR (one of his boasts from a few tears back I found quite distasteful) and don’t often read Lama, but the latter’s critique of the Shimano PM (which i did read) at least appears valid and worthy of addressing, especially as similar issues were noticed on another PM based off of the same crank design.

i'm interested in hearing from GPLama and i hope he posts to this thread. i'm a fan of his, an eager youtuber of his. (and i sure wish he would do all that stuff for us!) now, perhaps i misremember, but because you brought him up, i *think* what the takeaway is from not just his shimano review, but his other video reviews of PMs attached to this crank, is that it's a *crank* problem. that doesn't diminish the problem. just, sauce for the goose. is giant's PM more, equally, or less inaccurate than shimano's PM? so, maybe this is fair and maybe it's not, but i parse between the PM proper, and the crankset. in any case, i believe i referenced both GPLama and DC Rainmaker in my review, did i not? and shane may hoist me by my own petard right in this thread.

i don't believe i glided over the inaccuracies. i specifically stated - and quoted - over multiple paragraphs, what those who are smarter than i am have to say about this crank's accuracy. i also state why i'm not saying more about this: because i don't have anything of substance *yet* to add. i thought i was pretty clear that what i wrote is simply what i know today; and that this is the first of a number of pieces i'll write that speak to this crank's utility. a *lot* of people are dead sure - they know for sure - exactly how accurate or not this crank is, and many or most of these have never even seen one, let alone installed and used one. i'd like the chance to do my own investigation rather than simply adopting others' opinions.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
but, imagine if this PM comes out next year as an ultegra PM, and it's about a $600 upgrade from an ultegra crank.

What is that 'upgrade' pathway? What would that look like to you in the bike-shop-of-the-near-future? Or do you mean a factory option? I wasn't clear from the front page article how this Dura Ace one is even getting on bikes. You mentioned OE, but I didn't understand if they were coming out of the factory on bikes right now. It's not like a consumer can buy direct from Shimano either. I couldn't imagine a bike shop wanting to stock these when there's so much variance in lengths and chainrings. At least they settled on a single bcd.

It seems the current pathway is buying the thing for the price you mentioned and selling your old one. The 'sold' listings on Ebay for a used 9100 crank are around $250 USD. That's a huge hit to take for an 'upgrade' with some of the other options out there. Unless it's about a $600 upgrade when ordering from the LBS, I don't see a path forward for this.

One thing is certain, these sure look nicer than some of the clunky spider based add-on power meters.

Thanks for being so active in the conversation/replies.
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
echappist wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Ohio_Roadie wrote:
https://gplama.com/2019/06/29/shimano-crankset-power-meters/

Did you test for accuracy of the PM by a change? It’s gotten some pretty poor reviews to date.


I'm happy to answer questions about the review. But you gotta read the review first. Did you do that?


In the instant case, you also appended the label of “influencer” to both bloggers right before you mentioned the issue of inaccuracy that these “influencers” noticed, never mind that the publishing of your own review is an act of influencing. I don’t know if it was intended to disparage and parry, but it came across that way, because you never addressed the substance of the well-known issue.

Had this review been published an year ago, it would have made for a fine review. But times have changed, and to have published this without a substantiative discussion of the accuracy issue makes the review seem a bit late and irrelevant.

PS. I should add that i generally hold a dim view of DCR (one of his boasts from a few tears back I found quite distasteful) and don’t often read Lama, but the latter’s critique of the Shimano PM (which i did read) at least appears valid and worthy of addressing, especially as similar issues were noticed on another PM based off of the same crank design.


i'm interested in hearing from GPLama and i hope he posts to this thread. i'm a fan of his, an eager youtuber of his. (and i sure wish he would do all that stuff for us!) now, perhaps i misremember, but because you brought him up, i *think* what the takeaway is from not just his shimano review, but his other video reviews of PMs attached to this crank, is that it's a *crank* problem. that doesn't diminish the problem. just, sauce for the goose. is giant's PM more, equally, or less inaccurate than shimano's PM? so, maybe this is fair and maybe it's not, but i parse between the PM proper, and the crankset. in any case, i believe i referenced both GPLama and DC Rainmaker in my review, did i not? and shane may hoist me by my own petard right in this thread.

i don't believe i glided over the inaccuracies. i specifically stated - and quoted - over multiple paragraphs, what those who are smarter than i am have to say about this crank's accuracy. i also state why i'm not saying more about this: because i don't have anything of substance *yet* to add. i thought i was pretty clear that what i wrote is simply what i know today; and that this is the first of a number of pieces i'll write that speak to this crank's utility. a *lot* of people are dead sure - they know for sure - exactly how accurate or not this crank is, and many or most of these have never even seen one, let alone installed and used one. i'd like the chance to do my own investigation rather than simply adopting others' opinions.

Hi Dan,

Thanks for taking the time to chime in (and I mean that sincerely).

I think you are right that the error lies with the design of the crank. Specifically I think it was the confluence of a) design of the crank (specifically 9100 and 8000 series) and b) assumptions re: sampling, which were valid for the previous generation stuff but not for the 9100/8000 series.

I think my tone in my original post was overly harsh, and I apologize for that. I think in my mind I would have preferred something that came out all at once (so that it includes the current post, plus your own investigation, which hopefully addresses the issue raised by others). But, as the saying goes, easy to critique but hard to make something. So I'll zip it and wait for the next installment of the update.
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [dangle] [ In reply to ]
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dangle wrote:
Slowman wrote:
but, imagine if this PM comes out next year as an ultegra PM, and it's about a $600 upgrade from an ultegra crank.


What is that 'upgrade' pathway? What would that look like to you in the bike-shop-of-the-near-future? Or do you mean a factory option? I wasn't clear from the front page article how this Dura Ace one is even getting on bikes.

right now i'd say there are very few bikes that come with this as a factory original equipment option. one of my theses in my front page article is that the real price of a PM is the PM + whatever (if anything) the PM replaces. for example, an assioma replaces the pedal. you don't have to buy a pedal. the real price of an assioma is the price of the assioma minus the price of the pedal you'd otherwise have to buy. same with this shimano PM.

what i think - and i believe ray feels likewise, and i think others do as well - is that shimano, giant, FSA, specialized, SRAM/quarq, all these brands getting heavily into their *own* PMs creates the likelihood of a world in the near future where PMs come on bikes standard. the upcharge (in my parlance) between a pair of bikes with and without a PM is the difference between an ultegra crank, and an ultegra crank with a shimano PM (if that ultegra PM eventually gets made). at some point, on some bikes, that becomes a compelling option.

so, my wager is that PMs are going to come on bikes OE and that's why this dura ace crank here is important. right now, not many come OE. in 5 years? it's my guess you'll be buying most of your cranks OE unless you choose pedal-based PMs. a part of that calculus will depend on how bikes are assembled. right now, ABG assembles all its litespeeds, QRs, ocoees, in tennessee, at the point of sale. this gives QR a tremendous strategic advantage. this is where PMs bought on newly purchased bikes will manifest first. if you buy a speed concept you'll likely buy it as a project one purchase. same paradigm. one unknown is how many bike makers will adopt final bike assembly in the US and in europe.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
Slowman wrote:
echappist wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Ohio_Roadie wrote:
https://gplama.com/2019/06/29/shimano-crankset-power-meters/

Did you test for accuracy of the PM by a change? It’s gotten some pretty poor reviews to date.


I'm happy to answer questions about the review. But you gotta read the review first. Did you do that?


In the instant case, you also appended the label of “influencer” to both bloggers right before you mentioned the issue of inaccuracy that these “influencers” noticed, never mind that the publishing of your own review is an act of influencing. I don’t know if it was intended to disparage and parry, but it came across that way, because you never addressed the substance of the well-known issue.

Had this review been published an year ago, it would have made for a fine review. But times have changed, and to have published this without a substantiative discussion of the accuracy issue makes the review seem a bit late and irrelevant.

PS. I should add that i generally hold a dim view of DCR (one of his boasts from a few tears back I found quite distasteful) and don’t often read Lama, but the latter’s critique of the Shimano PM (which i did read) at least appears valid and worthy of addressing, especially as similar issues were noticed on another PM based off of the same crank design.


i'm interested in hearing from GPLama and i hope he posts to this thread. i'm a fan of his, an eager youtuber of his. (and i sure wish he would do all that stuff for us!) now, perhaps i misremember, but because you brought him up, i *think* what the takeaway is from not just his shimano review, but his other video reviews of PMs attached to this crank, is that it's a *crank* problem. that doesn't diminish the problem. just, sauce for the goose. is giant's PM more, equally, or less inaccurate than shimano's PM? so, maybe this is fair and maybe it's not, but i parse between the PM proper, and the crankset. in any case, i believe i referenced both GPLama and DC Rainmaker in my review, did i not? and shane may hoist me by my own petard right in this thread.

i don't believe i glided over the inaccuracies. i specifically stated - and quoted - over multiple paragraphs, what those who are smarter than i am have to say about this crank's accuracy. i also state why i'm not saying more about this: because i don't have anything of substance *yet* to add. i thought i was pretty clear that what i wrote is simply what i know today; and that this is the first of a number of pieces i'll write that speak to this crank's utility. a *lot* of people are dead sure - they know for sure - exactly how accurate or not this crank is, and many or most of these have never even seen one, let alone installed and used one. i'd like the chance to do my own investigation rather than simply adopting others' opinions.


Hi Dan,

Thanks for taking the time to chime in (and I mean that sincerely).

I think you are right that the error lies with the design of the crank. Specifically I think it was the confluence of a) design of the crank (specifically 9100 and 8000 series) and b) assumptions re: sampling, which were valid for the previous generation stuff but not for the 9100/8000 series.

I think my tone in my original post was overly harsh, and I apologize for that. I think in my mind I would have preferred something that came out all at once (so that it includes the current post, plus your own investigation, which hopefully addresses the issue raised by others). But, as the saying goes, easy to critique but hard to make something. So I'll zip it and wait for the next installment of the update.

no apology necessary, my friend. for those who didn't read it, here is exactly what i wrote on the front page:

Claimed accuracy is +/- 2°, and Shimano is confident that its units are both accurate, and are consistent from one of its units to another. Mind, the influencer class is not yet convinced. DC Rainmaker recently wrote that this power meter has been, “widely regarded as the least accurate mainstream power meter in 2020.” Is that fair? Meaning, are arbiters united in this view? And, is the power meter inaccurate, or are the opinionators inaccurate? I don’t know. Yet.

Ray answers a particular question for every power meter in his (excellent, and) most recent Power Meters Buyer’s Guide, “Would I buy it?” When Ray doesn’t much like a power meter one way he often answers this question is, “It’s tough.” He’s less equivocal about the Shimano. Would Ray buy it? “I can’t see a scenario where I would.”

About the accuracy of this PM, I’m not confident I can speak with authority. (I'll be on more firm footing in future installments on this PM.) But it seems to me that any accuracy issues are minor, are limited to one side, and not to the PM specifically, rather to crank-based PM affixed to this crank platform, including but not limited to Giant’s PowerPro. (I would defer to Shane GPLama Miller's superior knowledge of this).


what either is or isn't fair is what i shaded on blue above. one thing i'm going to ask shimano is whether there have been firmware updates to this crank since it was first written about. i believe the first to notice this one-side discrepancy was ben delaney, but this was 2 years ago. if others more recently are noting less of an issue, maybe that explains the delta in opinions. but i don't know. the truest thing you can say about me is that i don't have anything of value to write about this crank's accuracy.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I agree battery life is a nice thing to have, but is a rechargeable battery, even if it lasts a long time on one charge, really all that better than a coin battery like quarq or p2m use? Last year I spent $15 bucks on coin batteries and keep them in my toolbag. I never have to worry about being battery-less ever again. And that way the internal battery doesn't suffer the same degradation we see on all rechargeable battery-fed devices. Given, the life of the power meter may not be longer than the life of the battery in this case so that would be a non-issue, but still...

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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
I agree battery life is a nice thing to have, but is a rechargeable battery, even if it lasts a long time on one charge, really all that better than a coin battery like quarq or p2m use? Last year I spent $15 bucks on coin batteries and keep them in my toolbag. I never have to worry about being battery-less ever again. And that way the internal battery doesn't suffer the same degradation we see on all rechargeable battery-fed devices. Given, the life of the power meter may not be longer than the life of the battery in this case so that would be a non-issue, but still...

i don't have any quarrel with what you write. my response was to cyclenutnz, who said the only thing good about this PM is that it's congruent with the groupset. i don't mind anyone not liking this PM, not buying it, and pointing out its faults. but when your zeal to dump a load on this product causes you to misrepresent it, then i think it's fair to point out the virtues that are omitted.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
right now, ABG assembles all its litespeeds, QRs, ocoees, in tennessee, at the point of sale. this gives QR a tremendous strategic advantage. this is where PMs bought on newly purchased bikes will manifest first. if you buy a speed concept you'll likely buy it as a project one purchase. same paradigm. one unknown is how many bike makers will adopt final bike assembly in the US and in europe.

Thanks for that little tidbit regarding final assembly for ABG products being slightly more local to the final destination. It sounds kind of like buying a new car where you can add on stuff like remote start, trailer hitch receiver, etc. at the 'port' for quite a bit less money than you would at the dealer.
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [dangle] [ In reply to ]
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dangle wrote:
Slowman wrote:
right now, ABG assembles all its litespeeds, QRs, ocoees, in tennessee, at the point of sale. this gives QR a tremendous strategic advantage. this is where PMs bought on newly purchased bikes will manifest first. if you buy a speed concept you'll likely buy it as a project one purchase. same paradigm. one unknown is how many bike makers will adopt final bike assembly in the US and in europe.


Thanks for that little tidbit regarding final assembly for ABG products being slightly more local to the final destination. It sounds kind of like buying a new car where you can add on stuff like remote start, trailer hitch receiver, etc. at the 'port' for quite a bit less money than you would at the dealer.

yup. very few people appreciate the logistical advantage ABG will enjoy in this industry. i'm going out there later this spring to do a feature, not on the products, but on the company.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Front Page Shimano's Dura Ace R9100P Power Meter [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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It is actually available in 165 mm and in 167,5 mm. I have the 165’s.

Jeroen

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
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