Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]

Dec 7, 17 13:46

Post #51 of 89 (10728 views)

Jim@EROsports wrote:

bloodyshogun wrote:

Jim, I am curious. Do you happen to have any information on size of helmet vs aero?

For a lot of helmets, my head falls on the very upper range of an M (59cm) and usually I can squeeze my head into a size M, but with noticeable discomfort. So, I often go up a L in the name of comfort.

Do you happen to have any data on how much more drag that might be?

It's all about frontal area, so larger will be slower. It is on me. I, too, fall right in between on a lot of helmets, but mediums are always faster on me. How much difference is there for you? Tough to tell without testing.

Comfort is a consideration, though, as discomfort can have a negative effect on performance.

I wouldn't say this is necessarily the case. The MET Drone as Frodeno used last year has a huge frontal area but if you have a good aero position it is hitting the clean air before it hits your shoulders and tested most aero for him for years without sponsorship. As long as it doesn't increase your total frontal area in regard to the wind the larger frontal area can be faster. I would say you are desperate for seconds if you downsize a helmet based on being worried about its aerodynamics.

http://www.220triathlon.com/gear/gear-guides/tt-bike-helmets-6-of-the-best-reviewed/9031-2.html

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]

Dec 7, 17 14:50

Post #52 of 89 (10702 views)

You misunderstand. If the frontal area of a large is larger than the frontal area of a medium (same helmet), there's a likely chance the drag will increase for an individual athlete. In fact, if you were just to test helmet vs helmet w/o a human head inside, it would absolutely have a higher CdA. It would have to as it's a larger frontal area.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]

Dec 7, 17 15:17

Post #53 of 89 (10683 views)

Darn, that means my size 8 melon is always gonna be slower :-( ... of course my friends love 'drafting' off of me as my head leaves a pretty big wake ... Ha!

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [bloodyshogun] [ In reply to ]

Dec 7, 17 15:37

Post #54 of 89 (10669 views)

I have the same size head (59) as you and can squeeze into a medium Giro but very few other brands. A very respected fitter told me that one can compress the foam at pinch points, with your thumb, to make a tight helmet fit and a smaller size helmet is always faster .

But of course that would be against the rules.

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [SteveM] [ In reply to ]

Dec 7, 17 15:41

Post #55 of 89 (10668 views)

Is there any difference between a Giro Advantage and a Giro Advantage 2? I have the Advantage.

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]

Dec 7, 17 15:50

Post #56 of 89 (10659 views)

Agreed if you just tested helmets it would have a significant impact but real world with a person inside changes it and as with a bigger frontal area may be faster. As with the link I sent the head up and head down a better indication for people worried about aerodynamics.

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [ In reply to ]

Dec 8, 17 14:54

Post #57 of 89 (10557 views)

Anyone do any testing with the Scott cadence plus? Great looking bucket IMO. Works for keinle as well.

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]

Dec 8, 17 15:14

Post #58 of 89 (10537 views)

Shambolic wrote:

Born Aero wrote:

Head up

I am a visor helmet triathlete all the way. I am more a head down rider and I have a collection of helmets but personally the Catlike Rapid is getting used more often then not purely based on it is as cool as not wearing a visor time trial helmet. I live in Australia and most races are hot and you may get away with a 70.3 but if you race Ironman I just want to get the helmet off by the end as it gets warm and become claustrophobic. I have done Ironmans in Giro Selector, Rudy Wing 57, Lazer Wasp, Giro Air Attack and the Catlike Rapid. I rode the Rapid at Kona this year and was even fine there. Aero aside the Catlike is the most versatile helmet and if you are head up you really don't need a tail so aero gains are minimal. If you ride in cooler races then I'd go based on looks and price.

http://aerogeeks.com/2016/08/03/catlike-rapid-tri-review/

Shambolic, I rode with the catlike rapid this season and loved it, great ventilation. But I hasd issues at IM events with visor coming off in transition bag and it takes too long to fiddle fitting back on in a race. In the end I resorted to putting the case in bag, but that's not great either as can split bag with wetsuit in. Any experience\tips?

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [jubbely] [ In reply to ]

Dec 8, 17 17:53

Post #59 of 89 (10491 views)

I've only had it is a transition bag once but I am extra vigilant about how it is placed on top of everything to not get the visor dirty and nothing pressing against it and had no issues. I pull it out the bag before tipping anything out. All other races my helmet has been at the bike. I guess take that second to make sure it is secure as you put it on. Those seconds that feel a lot longer than they are?

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [desert dude] [ In reply to ]

Dec 26, 17 12:38

Post #60 of 89 (10301 views)

What do you feel is the best option for a "head down" most of the time 40km person.... I find I put out more power head down and go faster....just me.
Years of doing this as a roadie make change hard....

My gut says:

Aerohead MIPS?

Bambino"

Other - am I missing anything important (POC...etc.)?

I prefer the idea of a visor.

Thanks.

jeff

Last edited by: jcb-memphis: Dec 26, 17 12:45

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]

Dec 26, 17 13:58

Post #61 of 89 (10263 views)

Jim@EROsports wrote:

You misunderstand. If the frontal area of a large is larger than the frontal area of a medium (same helmet), there's a likely chance the drag will increase for an individual athlete. In fact, if you were just to test helmet vs helmet w/o a human head inside, it would absolutely have a higher CdA. It would have to as it's a larger frontal area.

I have seen large helmets test faster than their smaller counterparts...

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [Grill] [ In reply to ]

Dec 27, 17 5:50

Post #62 of 89 (10131 views)

Grill wrote:

Jim@EROsports wrote:

You misunderstand. If the frontal area of a large is larger than the frontal area of a medium (same helmet), there's a likely chance the drag will increase for an individual athlete. In fact, if you were just to test helmet vs helmet w/o a human head inside, it would absolutely have a higher CdA. It would have to as it's a larger frontal area.

I have seen large helmets test faster than their smaller counterparts...

I would assume that if this is true for some people, its must smooth out the air flow around the transition from the helmet to the body?

BoulderCyclingCoach.com

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [rockdude] [ In reply to ]

Dec 27, 17 6:18

Post #63 of 89 (10118 views)

rockdude wrote:

Grill wrote:

Jim@EROsports wrote:

You misunderstand. If the frontal area of a large is larger than the frontal area of a medium (same helmet), there's a likely chance the drag will increase for an individual athlete. In fact, if you were just to test helmet vs helmet w/o a human head inside, it would absolutely have a higher CdA. It would have to as it's a larger frontal area.

I have seen large helmets test faster than their smaller counterparts...

I would assume that if this is true for some people, its must smooth out the air flow around the transition from the helmet to the body?

Agreed, kinda like the met drone

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [EnderWiggan] [ In reply to ]

Dec 27, 17 12:57

Post #64 of 89 (10026 views)

Jim,

Any testing done yet on the Smith Podium TT?? I have worn mine several times this year, and I really like it. But, I have no idea if it's fast compared to others.

Your insight would be very helpful.

Thanks,

Team Zoot-Texas, and Pickle Juice

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [Taugen] [ In reply to ]

Mar 7, 18 19:21

Post #65 of 89 (9616 views)

I am also curious about the Smith. Anyone seen any independent CdA numbers?

I mostly prefer head down with some peeking, however crowded races require more heads up.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [Taugen] [ In reply to ]

Jun 5, 18 20:35

Post #66 of 89 (8931 views)

I tested the Smith Podium with Jim in February... Again, it’s personal so you may get different results, but the Aerohead was 2W faster on my case...

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]

Jul 4, 18 11:12

Post #67 of 89 (8498 views)

Jim@EROsports wrote:

We might be coming to the age of "peak aero" when it comes to helmets as most of the new stuff is all testing within a watt or two of each other. At this point, multiple tests are necessary for many athletes to tease out any real differences. Specific to your desire for helmets with Visors, The Aerohead, Oakley Aro 7, P09 (even with visor is still good), and Specialized S-Works are all good on most athletes. Bambino is a crap shoot for sure; great when it works, but not much better than a regular road helmet when it doesn't. In fact, the Infinity is probably an overall more consistent performer. Haven't tested the new Mistral yet

Since it's going to come up. I think I'm the only person to test the Aro 7 outside of Oakley. 3-4 tests so far and it's looking pretty good, though right there with the Aerohead and P09, so no real gains. Still, it's very good and the visor quality is excellent. Not much else I can talk about just yet when it comes to the Oakleys. I will say, it looks to the eye much smaller than it is. The medium looks very small until you put it on and realize there's a lot of room in there. I would say sizes are pretty normal.

Thanks for this data. I just keep looking at the ARO 7 and it doesn't "look" fast to me. Any more data at this time as I am tempted but it is very expensive so I sort of was hoping for your wisdom on this. My other plan was to get a specialized s works tt helmet and use glasses...supposedly as fast as with the visor but a lot cooler (temperature-wise).

I have a giro aerohead mips and I find it hot and heavy (neck hurts) - the front loaded nature of it is just odd and I don't train in my tt helmet - is the ARO 7 cool/light.

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [jcb-memphis] [ In reply to ]

Jul 4, 18 11:22

Post #68 of 89 (8489 views)

I got an aerohead and used it a few days ago

Wow I really like it. The fit is great and so adjustable

The field of view is huge. I really like it.

I only do sprint so the following is a non issue for me
BUT the amount of sweating on my head was crazy.

It was so bad when I went around a tight corner at least a couple tablespooons of sweat came out the side of the helmet.

I’ve never had sweat come down my face except for with the aerohead.

After just 45 minutes of hard riding my hair looked like I had just gotten out of the shower and towel dried

I would never use it if I was going to race a hot Olympic or longer race

But for me I am SUPER happy and glad I got it.

Last edited by: RBR: Jul 4, 18 11:25

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [jcb-memphis] [ In reply to ]

Jul 4, 18 14:39

Post #69 of 89 (8375 views)

jcb-memphis wrote:

Jim@EROsports wrote:

We might be coming to the age of "peak aero" when it comes to helmets as most of the new stuff is all testing within a watt or two of each other. At this point, multiple tests are necessary for many athletes to tease out any real differences. Specific to your desire for helmets with Visors, The Aerohead, Oakley Aro 7, P09 (even with visor is still good), and Specialized S-Works are all good on most athletes. Bambino is a crap shoot for sure; great when it works, but not much better than a regular road helmet when it doesn't. In fact, the Infinity is probably an overall more consistent performer. Haven't tested the new Mistral yet

Since it's going to come up. I think I'm the only person to test the Aro 7 outside of Oakley. 3-4 tests so far and it's looking pretty good, though right there with the Aerohead and P09, so no real gains. Still, it's very good and the visor quality is excellent. Not much else I can talk about just yet when it comes to the Oakleys. I will say, it looks to the eye much smaller than it is. The medium looks very small until you put it on and realize there's a lot of room in there. I would say sizes are pretty normal.

Thanks for this data. I just keep looking at the ARO 7 and it doesn't "look" fast to me. Any more data at this time as I am tempted but it is very expensive so I sort of was hoping for your wisdom on this. My other plan was to get a specialized s works tt helmet and use glasses...supposedly as fast as with the visor but a lot cooler (temperature-wise).

I have a giro aerohead mips and I find it hot and heavy (neck hurts) - the front loaded nature of it is just odd and I don't train in my tt helmet - is the ARO 7 cool/light.

I have an AO7, White, medium that I am willing to sell. I will go over and post it in the Classifieds. I wore it one time at the Chattanooga 70.3 in May. It is an excellent helmet, and light. It just doesn't fit me correctly as it is unisex (male) style. A medium fits my head, but I am female, 5' 3" and race at 115 lbs. So, the shield comes over my entire nose. It was a very hot race, and I didn't notice it being hot either. Visibility is amazing. If you are interested, PM me.

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [desert dude] [ In reply to ]

Jul 4, 18 16:34

Post #70 of 89 (8307 views)

Interesting. One of your athletes you coach used a Rudy Project Wingspan for some time, and used a Bambino to win 2 National titles thus far in 2018. Yet you said they were basically slow. I take it he would fall into that small % that tested faster with them?

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [RBR] [ In reply to ]

Jul 4, 18 22:17

Post #71 of 89 (8214 views)

That is what I have found with aero helmets is basically how long can you endure it. I've commented earlier in this thread about the Catlike Rapid Tri and how cool it is and my other go to is the Met Drone purely because the volume of air around your head it is bearable in a not too extreme heat IM and well looks more aero. What I'm waiting for is the new Met. I've seen them call it a Drone but I'll guess we'll see when Met release it to the public. Same visor style as the Aerohead but with some vents and hopefully some cooler aspects of the Drone? It has a shorter tail and shaped a bit like the new Kask.

Best pic's I can find...

https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/diego-ulissi-italian-cyclist-of-uae-team-emirates-during-news-photo/973552812#diego-ulissi-italian-cyclist-of-uae-team-emirates-during-the-start-of-picture-id973552812

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dauphine-dan-martin-gets-confidence-boost-for-tour-de-france-team-time-trial/

Last edited by: Shambolic: Jul 4, 18 22:20

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]

Jul 5, 18 5:48

Post #72 of 89 (8082 views)

Shambolic wrote:

That is what I have found with aero helmets is basically how long can you endure it. I've commented earlier in this thread about the Catlike Rapid Tri and how cool it is and my other go to is the Met Drone purely because the volume of air around your head it is bearable in a not too extreme heat IM and well looks more aero. What I'm waiting for is the new Met. I've seen them call it a Drone but I'll guess we'll see when Met release it to the public. Same visor style as the Aerohead but with some vents and hopefully some cooler aspects of the Drone? It has a shorter tail and shaped a bit like the new Kask.

Best pic's I can find...

https://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/diego-ulissi-italian-cyclist-of-uae-team-emirates-during-news-photo/973552812#diego-ulissi-italian-cyclist-of-uae-team-emirates-during-the-start-of-picture-id973552812

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dauphine-dan-martin-gets-confidence-boost-for-tour-de-france-team-time-trial/

I also have the Louis Garneau Superleggera and could wear hat all day.

For me the aerohead is a sauna but as I say I only do sprints now so not an issue

I do believe the LG may be more aero for me because of my position. I have to work on it

Last edited by: RBR: Jul 5, 18 5:50

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]

Jul 5, 18 6:06

Post #73 of 89 (8058 views)

at the moment for 70.3 an IM i've used a giro air attack shield (with a really good visor) but it's 5 years old and for the next IM i'm looking for something more aero....but i'd like to wear it even in training sessions and i'd like to use something with no (or really short) tail.

I love the oakley but 500$ it's too much for me...so i'd like something like catlike, aerohead (but it is a bit 'extreme' as an every day helmet)..something with integrated visor...

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [jcb-memphis] [ In reply to ]

Jul 5, 18 6:23

Post #74 of 89 (8045 views)

If you're considering Specialized, why not get the LG P09? Just as fast if not faster on most with much better venting. That helmet is still a no-brainer.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Re: Fastest Aero Helmets? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]

Jul 5, 18 7:40

Post #75 of 89 (8004 views)

Jim@EROsports wrote:

If you're considering Specialized, why not get the LG P09? Just as fast if not faster on most with much better venting. That helmet is still a no-brainer.

Thanks.

Unlike pro bikers, many of us have broad shoulders/upper bodies ....so your testing data and insights are really helpful.
And, to be honest, if the Met Wide Body Drone were sold here I'd buy that and be done.

Your reply raises a few questions for me:

1. Is the P09 data you note (it being a no brainer) with the plug pulled out (open hole) in the front and with or without the lens? The new slightly fatter version (after the recall)?
2. Is the Oakley faster than the P09? (and were your Oakey tests on the short tailed, consumer version....?) For now, ignore the dollars as just the training time and travel wipe out the issues - I want a helmet that is fast and cool. The aerohead mips is not doing it for me for whatever reason despite the happy posts by many....too hot. I am older now and seem to have gotten increasingly sensitive to overheating in the last few years.

I am sort of hoping the Oakley is fast and cool. The tail just looks too short to my eye (it looks like a bambino 3). I am almost willing to go Vanquish....for really hot races.

Again, thanks!

Jeff

Last edited by: jcb-memphis: Jul 5, 18 7:49

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