HE is likely having panic attacks, and they will just get worse until he conquers his fears...

And to add how to conquer those fears, go out and do as many OW races he can find. Start slow, settle in, and build to the finish, just like he does in a pool. Get a 1/2 dozen of those under his belt without an attack, and he should be good to go..

He may be having panic attacks, but he also could be going into something like AFIB with RVR or SVT. I can assure you if he has AFIB with RVR or SVT it is not just in his head.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

Thanks monty and Thomas Gerlach for the quick replies. Both make a lot of sense.

I'd encourage him to do as many Open water races as possible. In my area we have a a series that run through summer with distances that range from 500m to 10km.

thanks for the suggestion. makes sense as long as he gets better. The situation seems pretty severe for such a good athlete to run out of breath 2x in a 400m swim.

Enclosed an article

At 60-65 review by a cardiologist and echocardiogram and possibly a stress test could prove useful




https://bmjopensem.bmj.com/content/2/1/e000146

I was in a similar position when I DNF an event.

Done a bunch of 70.3s and swam lots in lakes, non-choppy waters etc. Had no 'real experience' of the chop.
2 Months prior, I finished a 70.3, in a lake. Granted, no water chops, no mass start ...very nice swim.

Come the day of an Olympic...the swim was in a reservoir. The chop was crazy. I panicked. This was a new environment for me, and the first time I had to call for help and got pulled back to shore hanging on a support boat. I felt I was suffocating, as I couldn't catch a breather.

Long story short, I know hat I have to do. Join an open water squad and take head on the challenge of choppy swims. Get used to the environment. At this stage...i'm still working on it.

I had a similar problem for a few years. I'm a FOP swimmer. My first year of triathlon I bought a wetsuit and raced an OD in it. I didn't know how to out it on, it was possibly too small, it was very tight on the chest. This was the first time I'd swam in a wetsuit. Surfed in wetsuits before, but they are a very different fit. Anyway I shot off when the hooter went off, was good for 200m, then my breathing got hard, I slowed down still couldn't catch my breath, breaststroke, still couldn't, I was treading water almost panicking as I couldn't breath. A kayaker came over to help and after about 2 mins I recovered and started swimming again, coming out near last. This same thing happened on and off for 3 years and increasingly became a bit of a psychological issue. Instead of looking forward to the swim, I started to dread it. That sensation of being unable to breathe would always come on 200/300 into the swim and I would often have to slow right down and sometimes switch to breaststroke to get it under control. This wasn't panic, I've been in the water my whole life, surfing, OWS, squad swimming etc I think it was a combination of a number of things:

- wetsuit too tight, or not put on right.
- going out too hard, HR goes up and because of the compression on your chest from the wetsuit, even slowing down doesn't allow your HR to drop
- psychological effect from the above. Waiting and dreading for the above to happen, it's very panic inducing when you can't breathe and even stopping doesn't help
- I found a full sleeved wetsuit to be quite claustrophobic especially when the breathing issue kicked in, I want to rip it off

So that meant I would always underachieve in the swim, top 20 instead of top 10. I'm good now and am usually top 3 - top 5 out the water. What fixed it for me:

- sleeveless helped, less claustrophobic, although I have both sleeveless and sleeved now
- controlling my start, starting to the left of the pack, starting cautiously, getting my breathing into a rhythm, getting past that 300m stage where I would get a very slight sensation of HR coming up, but it wasn't a problem, because I wasn't gunning it, that would last a minute or so, disappear and then I'd be free to go as hard as I wanted. I could sprint for 400m and not have a problem
- I noticed that sometimes I started I wasn't exhaling underwater either and was hyperventilating a bit, so focusing on your breathing helps
- making sure you put your wetsuit on right

It's really hard to have to start slow and let everyone go, but he needs to do that. Swim by himself, away from the pack, control his breathing, wait till he feels comfortable and then go. A lot of people confuse this issue with panic, not being comfortable in the water or in races with lots of people, which isn't the case at all.

Sounds like your friend is quite the athlete with some lofty goals and the ability to get there. Over the course of my time here on ST, the feedback provided to many of the swimming issues discussed relates back to this fear we have of the environment. Often times we are over confident based on our athleticism and achievements in land based sports and struggle to figure out the aquatic portion of our event.
Mostly the feedback from the "established swimmers" is more confrontational than from those who are more recently introduced to the sport of swimming. But no matter how established as a lifelong swimmer or land-based focused athlete, there is a very real fact that needs to be addressed by anyone looking for improvement.. fear. Accepting it, recognizing it and managing it. In that order.
Cases like this, baring medical issues of course, are sad to hear about for sure, but are definitely fixable! While I would not recommend just jumping into more open water events, and doing more open water swims in group settings, as the way to go.
Your friend needs higher quality interactions with the water. These should be in calm situations. Controlled. Explained. Experienced in a much safer environment than open water racing. Learning to control yourself in the water, emotionally, through physical experiences will open the door to his athletic prowess.
Since the first step is accepting the fear, your friend is already clearly onto step two of recognizing it. So these are great steps toward improvement.
Managing fear is a nonstop challenge. At no point will your friends brain (or yours or anyones) finally give in and say "oh ok great everything is easy now that my face is buried in the water!" We are all survival animals and so the struggle will always be there.
Ive written more about this in an article on my webpage. theundergroundcoach.com
--- please have your friend contact me if either of you would like some more specific help going forward. Best of luck to him!
daved

Tell him to find a waterpolo club

I have the same problem and it’s certainly not due to fitness. It’s psychological inho-a mixture of breathing to fast/to slow and a feeling of uncomfortableness creeps in and then it’s all down hill...

Google "mammalian diving reflex". In short, when certain nerves in the face come in contact with cold water, the body responds by slowing the heart rate and diverting blood from the extremities to the vital organs. When this happens while you're simultaneously trying to swim, and your body needs the exact opposite (to increase HR and blood flow to your limbs), it feels like a panic attack. It's hard to draw full breaths and your arms and legs fatigue easily. I haven't found any consensus on how cold the water actually needs to be - some articles say 70's, others say 60's - but generally I think it depends on how well acclimated you are to colder water.

It happens to me almost every time I race in the ocean, but rarely in lakes and never in the pool. The only thing that helps me is to get a solid warm-up in the water as close to the start of the race as possible. Getting my face underwater, letting the water into my wetsuit, and really getting acclimated to the water temperature. The key is that it has to be right before the start of the race, otherwise my body starts to warm up again and the process starts over when I actually get back in the water. For me it seems like water temps in the upper-60's and colder trigger it but again I think this varies with the individual.

Some of the other things that have been previously mentioned - constricting wetsuit, choppy water, getting hit and kicked - all exacerbate the problem because they add stress and anxiety which further increase your HR while your body is trying to slow it down. It's really frustrating.

I'm going through a similar problem, though it's not because of a wet-suit (I don't have one)

At an Oly earlier this year it happened about 3-5 minutes into the swim. It's kinda like a panic
attack, but really I'd best describe it as an overwhelming desire to just quit swimming.
At that race I started to breaststroke for a couple minutes, calmed my self down and then
finished the swim no problem. Other than a slow swim, I actually had a good race.

I did a HIM a couple weeks after that, and I made a conscience effort to start the swim
slow and under control. That swim went fine, no incidents whatsoever. Finished the swim
in a reasonable time and felt great.

This past weekend I did a local Oly and I knew I had a chance to win my Age-Group. Couple
that with some improved swimming workouts, and I thought I could go out strong on the swim.
I started strong, hanging on the heels of some of the better swimmers, when it happened again.
About 3-4 minutes in, I get this overwhelming desire to quit. I actually started treading water
and turned toward shore and was prepared to swim in and DNF the race. Fortunately I was able to
calm down again, I started breaststroke for a bit, then went back to swimming and felt fine.
My time wasn't even that bad (all things considered).

I think for me, I get a sense of panic when I'm going to hard. My breathing becomes labored from the
hard effort, but I'm not a skilled enough swimmer to slow down and catch my breath while freestyling.
Couple that with my brain screaming at me, "WHY ARE YOU GOING FARTHER AWAY FROM SHORE!" and I just
start to quit.

I'm not sure what to do about it, other than remind myself to start slow, like I did at the HIM.
Or just get more comfortable working hard in an OWS, but I feel like I'm going to have to
figure something out. The one this past weekend had me ready to quit triathlon altogether. I ended
up having a great race, and I don't feel that way anymore, but its definitely weighing on me
regarding my upcoming races.

I’ve done a few HIM swims with no issues. I’ve freaked a bit on sprint swims and the like.

At LOU, I almost got out of the water. I couldn’t get my breath, then realized hyperventilation means you’re getting too much air. I started taking sips of (at about the 400 m marker) air and smiled the rest of the way through the race. I think I figured out my issue, that day.

He's of the older generation and probably old school techniques will work well on him. Take him out on a boat, point at a birdie in the sky, while he's distracted- kick him overboard, and motor back in. It's the OWS version of being tossed into the deep end. He'll figure it out pretty quickly and start swimming like a champ in no time.

---

---

---

Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

This is VERY typical. Can I ask how much warmup you did. This has happened countless times to me and in talking with some other exceptional athletes, very common. That knowledge helped me overcome as I knew it was not just me. Longer warmups and more open water sessions helped. The key is also to not go out too fast, as much of the field does. Sometimes go out a few minutes, and then relax and let the speed wane a bit to control yourself. Often as in running your pace drop will be very minimal. Doing some open water workout where you change pace dramatically helps too. Put some very hard surges in, and then back off and let yourself recover while going 75%. So much is getting a long warmup and learning how to relax!

I did consider that. At the first Oly I didn't do any swim warmup, however I did some running and light sprinting before hand. At the second Oly I did get a warmup in, but looking back it really wasn't much. I just swam out about 25-50m and then swam back in.

No where near enough. As I said, it's very common even with some very good swimmers. Running is better than nothing, but not the same at all. Frankly, for an Oly I'd probably do most of the course to warm up if I could. Swim very easy, built a bit and then do some short sprints, much like a run only race. That and the knowledge it's very common should ease the symptoms....

For warm-up swimming is best but be flexible. Some races there is no swim warm-up or it's so cold (water or air) the warm-up doesn't really boost the core temps either high enough or long enough. Bike is limiting too as most bike races your bike is racked and not accessible. Running is the best option for establishing your personal routine warm-up before a tri. Run 5-10 minutes time for warm-up and speed/strides to get the heart pumping and the lungs expanded. Beyond the warm-up and once in the race there are other specific things you can choose to prevent or minimize swim issues. Don't over swim the first 100 or so meters to get swim-start remorse, especially in the longer races of half & full. You can loose the race in the first couple of minutes but never win it. Other options are to extend breathing pattern to use up the oxygen already in the body instead of overloading on it and increasing your hyper-ventilation chances. On this one, instead of breathing every right (or left) breath every other right (or left) or every 3rd or 4th stroke, one beyond your normal stroke pattern. Again, this is for a short period of time until you are settled into your race plan. You could also choose to kick a little harder for a brief period to balance out the O2/CO2 as the quads are oxygen sucking muscles. These latter two options are similar to you changing to (back/breast) strokes and getting re-oriented and your gases re-balanced but you don't give up the time or impair your self-confidence for dropping back to your competitors on the swim. Finally, not sure where you train or where you race but changes in altitudes on race days can mess up your plan breathing if not mentally ready to adjust for your swim style. Go easier at start when increasing altitude and go harder or extend breathing pattern if dropping down a few 1,000 feet from training levels. I hyper-ventilated in my very first tri and started towards shore when the panic attack subsided.

It's all a bit unnerving but figure out the in-race solutions to finish relaxed and respectable. Try in practice. Mentalize the tactics before the race. Adopt what works for you.

https://www.palmtreesahead.com/feed
https://www.palmtreesahead.com/tri-50-states

I am a 1:28-1:30/100 LCM swimmer, adult onset so no real experience as a youth swimming.
I get a lot of similar emotions/responses as to MRid below when I swim open water in races. I should be able to nail the swim but often get episodes of panic and a what the hell am I doing out here periods soon after the start of the swim. Lots of times I have just wanted to pack it all in and turn into shore. I have to remember to just calm down, take it a few strokes at a time and then reassess and it normally passes and I can get into a rhythm and go.
I think the keys for me are as follows:
1. Starting a bit too hard and getting out of breath from all the chaos of the start
2. Getting knocked around and put out of rhythm
I don't have any good answers at the moment for what I will do this coming season to help with things. Given I have reasonable speed I still want to be competitive in the swim so I don't want to start at the back. I will likely hang around the sides of the start where I might not get banged around as much and swim my own lines for the first few hundred metres.
It takes a lot of mental fortitude not to give up on the swim when that panic sets in but it is worthwhile thinking that through and visualising what you will do if it does happen.

i'm with zedzed. i'd like to know when he bought his wetsuit he's using now. how long ago.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

This is a timely thread for me. I've done six IMs, about 13 HIMs and a number of sprint and oly races but still find myself anxious at the beginning of each swim start. This past weekend I competed in a sprint race and found myself treading water in a state of panic about 50 yards into the race. No real contact to speak of, but lots of heavy breathing and thrashing about with a really poor stroke. I considered calling to the nearest kayak and ending my race but I gathered myself and finished up the swim. Never did feel comfortable though. Glad to know there are others out there experiencing the same thing, and I appreciate some of the advice posted here.

Probably related is that my open water swims have gotten steadily worse the last year or so. However, my pool swimming has actually improved over that time, where I've gotten both more efficient and faster. I can't reconcile the two - how come my pool stroke isn't carrying over to open water? My OWS swim stroke never feels the same as it does in the pool even in calm water.

i'm no speedy gonzalez. so, don't take my advice as gospel. however, i'm a steady performer, a NEVER dnf the swim, and i DO sometimes fall into the same challenges spoken about in this thread. i'm going to be writing about some techniques this week that i use in open water swimming that some folks may find helpful - esp those who're getting older. well, everybody's getting older. but you know what i mean.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman