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DEAR IRONMAN
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Thanks for transferring my money to another race or date and not just canceling without a refund. I do appreciate it.

For me it has been easy to deal with.

BUT

for other I have talked to they would like to change races or not do a race or get some money back.

Why don't you try some of these ideas.

Offer %50 of your money back. Therefore some people can move on and someone else can buy into races closer to home.

As well. Take everyone slot and do a total re allocation process. Shuffle the deck.

e.g. you get a credit for a half or full. then starting Dec 1 you can select to stay in your event you are all ready registered for.
Dec 8 th open slots for other venues open up maybe one popular race each day and you can try to get into a race that now has openings is more local or better dates for the 2021 year.

e.g. A lot of athletes I train missed out on Canada 2020 so they were going to volunteer and get a 2021 slot. They did sign up for 2020 fall US Ironman races.

But hey would rather switch to Canada and I imagine a few US athletes would like to move to US races. The athlete would have to gamble they can get in or else pick another race location once full.

Even include $250 transfer fee, people would pay it to avoid lifestyle and logistical changes.

If you don't like these ideas throw out some of your own. I am ok with what has happened but I think we could do a better reshuffle then what has taken place.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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Triathletetoth wrote:
Thanks for transferring my money to another race or date and not just canceling without a refund. I do appreciate it.

For me it has been easy to deal with.

BUT

for other I have talked to they would like to change races or not do a race or get some money back.

Why don't you try some of these ideas.

Offer %50 of your money back. Therefore some people can move on and someone else can buy into races closer to home.

As well. Take everyone slot and do a total re allocation process. Shuffle the deck.

e.g. you get a credit for a half or full. then starting Dec 1 you can select to stay in your event you are all ready registered for.
Dec 8 th open slots for other venues open up maybe one popular race each day and you can try to get into a race that now has openings is more local or better dates for the 2021 year.

e.g. A lot of athletes I train missed out on Canada 2020 so they were going to volunteer and get a 2021 slot. They did sign up for 2020 fall US Ironman races.

But hey would rather switch to Canada and I imagine a few US athletes would like to move to US races. The athlete would have to gamble they can get in or else pick another race location once full.

Even include $250 transfer fee, people would pay it to avoid lifestyle and logistical changes.

If you don't like these ideas throw out some of your own. I am ok with what has happened but I think we could do a better reshuffle then what has taken place.

Good luck getting a response to this.
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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I actually think IM is doing a pretty good job. They spend lots of time internally working through these permutations. And, of course the rest of us are in the peanut gallery with these *great* ideas. I would sure hate to be in their shoes. As the producer of two small little races (I don't receive or depend on any income) , I can only imagine their struggles.

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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You lost me at 50% refund. No way! What entitles them to 50% of an entry fee with no return?

I'm appreciative they cancelled my race in October today. That is a lot of lead time for what I expected, but I'm grateful they announced it was being moved to 2021. Being it was the North American Championship I think you can stick a fork in the 2020 season entirely now.

Realistically what is IM supposed to do in the middle of a pandemic. I think it is what it is for now. Now if 2021 is more of the same then I think refunds may need to be issued at some point.
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [WFPB Athlete] [ In reply to ]
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WFPB Athlete wrote:
You lost me at 50% refund. No way! What entitles them to 50% of an entry fee with no return?

I'm appreciative they cancelled my race in October today. That is a lot of lead time for what I expected, but I'm grateful they announced it was being moved to 2021. Being it was the North American Championship I think you can stick a fork in the 2020 season entirely now.

Realistically what is IM supposed to do in the middle of a pandemic. I think it is what it is for now. Now if 2021 is more of the same then I think refunds may need to be issued at some point.

They'll be out of business before refunds are issued.
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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New IM race coming soon: IM DGAF
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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The race reshuffling is not a bother to me. There are bigger things to worry about than whether or not I get a refund. To put another way, what amount would you pay to do a race right now? Is it 1.5x the initial cost? 2x? 5x? Personally, my clearing price is quite high right now.

It really surprises me that IM has not allowed athletes to sell their entries. I think this would go a long way to engender goodwill. Why force a person to do a race at a later date that they may not want? If the original purchaser is OK with a 50% refund they can sell it for 50% of what they paid.
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Klaus Daimler] [ In reply to ]
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yup. Good idea.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [david] [ In reply to ]
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I agreed they are doing well. I haven't had a problem. I am pointing out other peoples issues and how they could profit off fixing them.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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Why do you go on every Ironman race forum and say how much Ironman sucks etc. What did they do to you. You know racing them is your choose.

Do you show up to tractor pulls and complain about the fumes and noise? Yell out this sucks car pulls are way better.

You do know the only reason other Triathlons have a platform is because of the PR all funded by Ironman.
Without them this would be below cross county skiing in Participation.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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I don't race Ironman anymore. There are many triathlons out there that actually respect their registrants...
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
I don't race Ironman anymore. There are many triathlons out there that actually respect their registrants...


Like Embrunman for example? It got cancelled 2 weeks before the event by the authorities (if the organizer was smart he would have done it himself way earlier) but the organizer tried to revoke that decision by going to court (which he lost of course...) stretching the insecurity for athletes even more.
They offer a 50% refund for maximum 300 athletes that want to opt out.
They offer a transfer to 2021 but they will raise the registration fee for that event and athletes will have to pay the difference.

I think Gerardmer is a case where they offer the perfect solution: reimbursement or transfer but that is because it is one event and a very well organized one. Things change if you are operating multiple events with multiple organizers.

WTC is doing a good job during hard times and I don't feel disrespected. Also, I don't see a lot of alternatives that provide the same experience.

Sam
Last edited by: sgy: Aug 6, 20 5:57
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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The issue I see (talking about a full IM here) is that for some people, and my guess is a lot, don't do a race every year. Training for a full is a huge time/money sucker.


If you pay to race, take the time to train, have a job, family, etc, and now your race gets pushed to next year and you can't race that year you're screwed. A refund is in order.
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Rideon77] [ In reply to ]
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Setting finishline cut off at 13h could solve all these issues :-)
Sam
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Rideon77] [ In reply to ]
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"If you pay to race, take the time to train, have a job, family, etc, and now your race gets pushed to next year and you can't race that year you're screwed. A refund is in order."

I don't know about that. Seems more like a lifestyle issue then a company policy. If I don't use my car much during covid at the end of the year I can't get the insurance back because I didn't use it.


Plus that is were I mentioned the 50% refund which would then give some severance back and add another fully funded entry for someone that wants to take that race entry in 2021.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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For any IM entrant the entry fee is the cheap part.

The list of people who refund squat in all this is way longer than one company, why haven't you included them in the equation.
I don't particularly like WTC but seriously how is any of this their fault.

2020 is a bust, reset, reboot.
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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I found this interesting write up and am not happy but pretty much resolved to never seeing any dollars. https://www.ironman.com/transfer-withdrawal
What bothers me is they have openings for a local race and won’t let me use the deferral since it wasn’t on their list (per their email response). I specifically picked a remote race where housing wouldn’t be an issue. All the other ones not only will add that cost and some would even require air travel costs. I would even be willing to pay a transfer fee. You can’t do that for 70.3 in the US just the rest of the world. Wow.
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with your first statment.

Did you read what I wrote.

I said they have done as well as I think they can. I am ok with how things have gone for me.


I am not sure what you meant with the other comment.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
I don't race Ironman anymore. There are many triathlons out there that actually respect their registrants...

agree - i have lost respect for Ironman after this debacle. every other organization i've signed up with has refunded me no matter how small the event.
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [casper3043] [ In reply to ]
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I went back and forth with Ironman on several emails about offering a credit to be used in 2021. After the standard answer on 2 of the emails, I finally asked, why would Ironman not be willing to do a credit to be used in the 2021 season? This was the answer. Ironman's system is not set up to do credits. I sent one more email and there is no need to discuss what I said in that one.
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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Triathletetoth wrote:
I don't know about that. Seems more like a lifestyle issue then a company policy. If I don't use my car much during covid at the end of the year I can't get the insurance back because I didn't use it.

Funny you say that. A few major insurance companies in thr US actually did give partial refunds/discounts to there customers a few months ago. But I get your point.

Strava
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [casper3043] [ In reply to ]
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casper3043 wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:
I don't race Ironman anymore. There are many triathlons out there that actually respect their registrants...

agree - i have lost respect for Ironman after this debacle. every other organization i've signed up with has refunded me no matter how small the event.

That's funny, cause my local marathon only gave me the option to defer or eat the fee to give to charity and run it virtually, I took the later. One local tri only gave the option to defer to next year and my other local tri provided 75 % of the fee as credit to another race they will hold next year. By my calculation Ironman is on par or better than all of those options, so in reality it's not like they are completely out of line in this whole situation.

Strava
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch wrote:
For any IM entrant the entry fee is the cheap part.

The list of people who refund squat in all this is way longer than one company, why haven't you included them in the equation.
I don't particularly like WTC but seriously how is any of this their fault.

2020 is a bust, reset, reboot.

I find it making people still think they will do an ironman in 2020.

They are deluded.

Rhymenocerus wrote:
I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [mstewarttri] [ In reply to ]
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Yes where I live

some small events ate the money.

Some ate it but with a small fee to move it to next year if you want. ( basically a service fee or to move it or else you lose it)

Some transferred to next year.

Ironman has been good overall. The race selection issue for deferrals would be hard to get perfect for everyone.

People that are very upset should explain how they would handle it and stay in business if they were the Ironman brand.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: DEAR IRONMAN [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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In trying to answer your question, I have already said this on the other threads but I will say them one more time here and will try to be clearer.
Please keep in mind that I am retired, have only done 2 - 70.3's and was going to do my first remote one since I could stay with friends locally so costs were going to be kept low. I would think that IM would like to keep people that are just getting into it.
1. IM offered other race options the first time including the same race just a year later. This was great as it was easy for me to delay one year.
2. When they cancelled the second race (my original selection a year later), it looked like they tried to give more race options which was good but they did not give the same race another year later maybe it will be cancelled permanently (Victoria)? I would have been open to paying the difference for a 2022 race when the race looked like it was going to be locked in locally as I know prices do increase! The other race options would all require a lot of additional expenses bringing me to my other suggestion.
3. If someone has a local IM race in their backyard (especially with openings or even wait another year) I would have been happy to transfer to that race and again pay the upcharge and transfer fee. I had one of those races near me but it wasn't on their magic list. What was interesting to me was you can't transfer 70.3 races in the US (/North America?) but you can in other countries? Not sure why and couldn't find an explanation.

From a business point of view, I understand this is a difficult situation. It seems that they got themselves into a financially difficult position. I don't understand how they could use more than 25-50% of the entry fees before the race. With a business plan that uses it all before a race even happens makes absolutely no sense. Maybe they expanded too quickly and were using money from other races to jump start new ones?

In any case, I will be trying to work it out with one of their offered options as they were not open to my suggestions or just end up eating the fee. In the future, I will stick to local races. Glad I didn't spend $$ on those upgrades on my bike I was considering.
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