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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [ianmo80] [ In reply to ]
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ianmo80 wrote:
turdburgler wrote:
Probably 10 times over.

Dan has achieved full aero-superiority in this arms race.


Record achieved off an estimated average power of 350watts was it? Absolutely brilliant.

Just shows the balance between power and aero is the most critical element in a TT.

Where are you seeing those estimates? He went further than expected and I believe was targeting 360 watts.


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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:
ianmo80 wrote:
turdburgler wrote:
Probably 10 times over.

Dan has achieved full aero-superiority in this arms race.


Record achieved off an estimated average power of 350watts was it? Absolutely brilliant.

Just shows the balance between power and aero is the most critical element in a TT.


Where are you seeing those estimates? He went further than expected and I believe was targeting 360 watts.
Things that are going to sell out everywhere ^^^

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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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I find it really hard to believe he actually used GP5000 TT tires. That makes no sense at all... https://www.bikeradar.com/...ur-record-pinarello/


Last edited by: rruff: Aug 19, 22 9:38
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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That was striking to me as well. I'd love to know the specifics of that actual tyre they used and the rational behind it. It seems impossible. Surely it is some type of prototype and not the stand GP5000 TT.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
turdburgler wrote:
I just noticed Victor Campanaerts was posting rooting him on.

Mission achieved 55.548km

Turns out he went 55.2 in June during training too.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:
That was striking to me as well. I'd love to know the specifics of that actual tyre they used and the rational behind it. It seems impossible. Surely it is some type of prototype and not the stand GP5000 TT.

I would guess these are publicity photos taken after a test session. The actual tires are likely designed to last 60k and not much more. Unless they went the opposite direction and built a super hard compound rubber since there is so little grip required. He says "higher than you'd think" for pressure. Not unheard of for indoor track tires to push 200psi, but that was back in the day of high pressure everywhere.
Last edited by: mathematics: Aug 19, 22 10:33
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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Very weird. Conti has a long history of giving pros different tires than what they sell to the general public, so it wouldn't surprise me that the tires the pros are using in road races are quite fast. But this is a track hour record on a smooth track where high PSI should be another benefit. And the Conti clinchers max at 109 psi according to their spec. Smaller tires are better for aero, and these are 25mm. Plus, it's strange that Princeton would make fancy track discs that are clincher specific.
Last edited by: rruff: Aug 19, 22 10:39
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
Very weird. Conti has a long history of giving pros different tires than what they sell to the general public, so it wouldn't surprise me that the tires the pros are using in road races are quite fast. But this is a track hour record on a smooth track where high PSI should be another benefit. And the Conti clinchers max at 109 psi according to their spec. Smaller tires are better for aero, and these are 25mm. Plus, it's strange that Princeton would make fancy track discs that are clincher specific.

Maybe the aero of the clincher/wheel mounting interface with that disc wheel and that tire at that pressure provides a better presentation to the wind? Eliminates variability of a glue job for CRR and aero.

Spitballing.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
I think we can all agree that he is far from World Tour level even in TTs. What he has basically done is taken a "mediocre" cyclist (himself) and set a World Record.
He's definitely punching above his racing category, but I disagree with your characterization. Bigham has raced professionally at the UCI Continental level, and has a multi-year history of being competitive against WorldTour guys in ITTs at National and World champ events.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:
That was striking to me as well. I'd love to know the specifics of that actual tyre they used and the rational behind it. It seems impossible. Surely it is some type of prototype and not the stand GP5000 TT.


I don’t think it’s standard. The use of gp5000 thing has been an ongoing source of public ribbing on social media since the sub 7/8 record when the same tyres were used and it’s obvious now they are prototypes of some description. How good, who knows.
Last edited by: UK Gearmuncher: Aug 19, 22 11:59
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [UK Gearmuncher] [ In reply to ]
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Any evidence that they are prototypes?

Even then... I don't understand using them on the track for this sort of effort. Maybe they are good in aero; at least the flow direction is well known and turbulence nil. But it seems like a small high-pressure tire would be more optimal.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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No direct evidence but observational evidence based on what we know from current data. In the past I've seen Continental mark the tyres to indicate prototypes.

Dan mentioned surprising pressures for the ride, but left it at that. I'm not sure what to make of it.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [HTupolev] [ In reply to ]
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HTupolev wrote:
He's definitely punching above his racing category, but I disagree with your characterization. Bigham has raced professionally at the UCI Continental level, and has a multi-year history of being competitive against WorldTour guys in ITTs at National and World champ events.

I should have said "top" WorldTour, or something to that effect. He's only raced Worlds ITT once (last year) and was 16th. He was 2nd at nationals this year and last year.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Any reason for the massive drop basebar? Not like he is using it in a TT. If there is a minimum bar width, you'd present a lower frontal area is it was straight.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:
Indurain and Rominger both did 500 watt rides for the hour I believe. There is some pretty good indications of Ganna's hour power while in aero. I'd expect he might be in the 460 - 480 watt range. I can't see him being close to Dan's level of aero though. Still he'll have enough watts and aero to put this pretty far out there.

Rominger did 413 watts. Indurain was 500.

https://www.53x12.com/rominger-s-hour
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you. My forgetter is stronger that my rememberer at this point. 1 for 2.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:
ianmo80 wrote:
turdburgler wrote:
Probably 10 times over.

Dan has achieved full aero-superiority in this arms race.


Record achieved off an estimated average power of 350watts was it? Absolutely brilliant.

Just shows the balance between power and aero is the most critical element in a TT.

Where are you seeing those estimates? He went further than expected and I believe was targeting 360 watts.

Whoever it was commentating on YouTube talked about it constantly.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [ianmo80] [ In reply to ]
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His coach. I thought he suggested 360W and that Dan said he was going faster than plan.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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The Conti prototype tyres that I have seen have a numerical code on a white label like this. Possible the overall CRR/CdA package with the Continental GP5000 TT was the best option especially when tied to the prototype frame & wheels. Or it was a sponsor requirement and he had enough spare power to allow for it. For SUB7 Cadex allowed us to exceed the recommended maximum pressure for the wheels, I expect he ran his tyres way past the suggested safe maximum.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
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Karl.n wrote:
Rominger did 413 watts. Indurain was 500.

https://www.53x12.com/rominger-s-hour

Guesstimated, not measured values. And lots of EPO back then...
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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BigBoyND wrote:
Any reason for the massive drop basebar? Not like he is using it in a TT. If there is a minimum bar width, you'd present a lower frontal area is it was straight.
My guess is it would be the optimal position and ability for him to get a massive 64x14 gear from a standing start away and up to speed before transitioning to aero. Time gains there would offset any minor aero penalties for the base bar.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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For a number of reasons of I've gone full deep-dive into this record attempt the last ten days. This was actually one of the most interesting aspects to me as I've won (juniors, and now masters) US National Championships with what I would consider very experimental, and with hindsight probably fairly dangerous set-ups. (Think suicide bars, on the road, on fixed gear, with just a single front brake!)

In one of the youtube videos I watched, Bigham said that he's experimented with no base bar at all because (and I'm paraphrasing) it would "make sense to be faster" but it turns out they've tested, and tested again, that the "wave" the basebars create for the legs actually makes for a lower CDA. That explained why the WattShop basebars on stock bars look a bit thicker than some others, and makes me think they (Bigham, INEOS, & the 3D printer) looked at this extensively when shaping these bars for this attempt. Probably any shape he can manage to start on, that also lowers his CDA at ~56 kh is what they had in mind. It looks like the newer INEOS road TT bars are doing this too as they have an odd shape that doesn't appear to be overly bio-mechanical nor minimal frontal area.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
Karl.n wrote:
Rominger did 413 watts. Indurain was 500.

https://www.53x12.com/rominger-s-hour

Guesstimated, not measured values. And lots of EPO back then...

Aren’t all hour record power values guesstimated? Rominger and Ferrari had SRMs, so they probably measured...

And yeah the power is a lot lower than it was 25 years ago.
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Re: Bigham hour attempt- 19Aug [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
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There are no guestimates now really. There is enough transfer of knowledge to know almost exactly what is going on from multiple sources.

The orange juice was flowing from Spain and they pretty much knew exactly how that helped too. Science and math could work out the details then and now just much more easily these days. Tech now makes it all more convenient though and we are far more capable of knowledge being shared and in turn further refined.
Last edited by: turdburgler: Aug 19, 22 20:32
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