So...I look at two races locally. 4 Peaks Racing tends to promote relatively inexpensive races and they're well attended.

Merrill Ranch Sprint-Early Registration $69
Tri 4 the Cure-Early Registration $85

Previously Tri 4 the Cure went through a different race promoter...it was $100 at the early registration point. When I look at price points I'm looking for the starting point at around $65 and the early registration window going to at least 6 weeks before the race which both of those do. What's the difference? Permits? Maybe when it was in Scottsdale, but 4 Peaks has moved the location to Anthem and it's a similar race to their reverse sprint, and that one is $69 next Summer. Also...Tri 4 the Cure until this year was women only...so that actually goes against what some folks are saying about the success of women's only races. For an Olympic race, 4 Peaks promotes the Cactus Man and it's $90 early registration. Now being an Olympic the early registration window doesn't go nearly as close to the race, but I've put it in my race and training plan.

Tri Family Racing seems to have reduced the amount of 2019 races they're doing by far or they're just only publishing the ones that are ready to go...however they're now promoting 3 Olympic races

Bartlett Lake Spring and Fall are both $150, Lake Pleasant is $135. So in the Phoenix area we have 5 Olympic Distance races available, which is more than there were three years ago when I first started triathlon and was just doing Sprints off a MTB.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Earlier in this thread it was said that triathlon was a sport for older people. At 61 I fit that bill. I have also been competing in endurance sports without a break since I was a kid (I did my first triathlon in 1980). The boomers who loved to compete when they were young, who wanted to push themselves and test their fitness against themselves and others are still out there today. So I can't help but notice how low the bar has fallen in today's generation (while recognizing that there are still young athletes pursuing excellence). That's their prerogative, of course, but I would rather see triathlon retrench further if the only alternative was some watered-down, group training activity disguised as a race.

Yes, you're the exception. Do you think IMWI has helped keep the Madison area tri community healthy or if it's because a very healthy tri community is a good place for IMWI? Chicken or egg?

I would estimate 1/2 to 2/3 of the events in northern Illinois (and Janesville and Beloit) have disappeared in the last 5 years. It was over-saturated 8-10 years ago, but pretty stark now.

I think it's a really healthy community here anyway as shown by the tons of cyclists, runners, skiers, year round no matter the weather. Often these local sprint/oly races even sell out a while before the race, which is surprising given the number of them around. I also think the IMWI and 70.3 races thrived as a result of the existing interest in tri as opposed to this races fueling interest.

Having lived in your area previously, I am really shocked at how many races have died there and also the Lake Geneva races, which were always hugely popular. I know the old Rockford tri, Janesville, Crystal Lake and a bunch of others no longer are around.

I do feel very fortunate that there are so many choices, and at prices that allows one to race often, no matter the budget. The Race Day Events average out around $40 or so and besides the food, beer, medals, shirts, there usually is a $20 gift certificate to the Trek Store as well. Quite a bargain and real incentive to enter to keep them around.

I think the beer thing is just an N=1. I've had good experiences with beer post-race (15-30 minutes or more after the finish), even beer that I wouldn't ordinarily drink. BUT, the point remains: this is a relatively easy thing to do, especially for local RDs with the ever-growing number of local breweries. You can get a pretty good cover band for <$1,000, and if you book them well in advance and for multiple gigs, maybe even cheaper.

I think the overarching theme is this: RDs need to start thinking like startups. How do I attract people, make it easy for them to buy into and enjoy my product, and maximize capitalization at the front end in order to provide a high quality experience when the time comes to perform?

---

Brenden Macy
Sports & Entertainment Attorney
I am Drive. I am Grit. I am Determination.

Well written. It's a topic for another thread, but I would love to share ideas on this. Last year we re-introduced a local race in a beautiful setting and the pricing was 50 for the sprint and 75 for the olympic with $2,000 set aside in prize money. We spent a decent chunk on advertising, emailed every running and bike store we could find emails for within ~75 miles, emailed past participants (hundreds of people) a couple times, and I reached out to a handful of northern IL area slowtwitchers who probably would have easily taken one of those $500/300/200 checks and been home for lunch. 4.5 weeks out we had ~40 people signed up. It was absolutely embarrassing. Registration had been open 8 months. We had 90+ paid members in our tri club at the time. All our permits and insurance were due the next week. We canceled, gave the sponsors back their money and tried not to think of all the money we already spent. That really, really sucked.

I used a lot of the opinions seen in threads like this when thinking about the venue, costs and swag. It made me think that what many want is to be able to sign up last minute or just *think* they will sign up but then make excuses because they are busy or haven't trained as much as they think they should have. We said refunds were at the discretion of the race director instead of the typical 'no refunds' message, but maybe some still read it that way. There was no way we were committing to thousands of dollars of costs when we were 1/3 of the way of getting the participants we needed just to break even.

Back to brmacy's statement. I'm curious what makes something "easy" to buy into. Our club is really close with a local crossfit gym and talking about some sort of mixed event instead of a triathlon this year. The preliminary description and thoughts make it sound really, really similar to a crossfit event anyhow. Maybe we're just not very relevant in our geographical area anymore? I agree that we need to stop trying to pick more fruit from the same tree, but start growing more trees. I look forward to the discussion on practices to grow.

Who is starting the separate thread? "Attributes for a successful local race" We are starting/reintroducing a race here also. I'm determined to make it work!

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

On the other hand races here have the beer garden. So you have folks on 3' wide bike section with beach cruiser zig zagging. I think the focus should be more on reaching standards/times. Tough mudder is a joke you can just skip obstacles and do burpees. This is not racing. This is not the challenge if who is fittest anymore

Sure, I get your point. But, Tough Mudders have more spontaneous participation for that exact reason: the low threshold of completion. Times and standards are only important to those of us who will race regardless of the amenities. The larger question is whether that is attractive to the casual observer/spontaneous participant. The answer is a clear and resounding "NO!"

That said, I think there could be a place for time and standards to come into play while still encouraging casual participation. It's simply borrowing a concept from ultra racing: Finish faster than XX:XX:XX, get [fill in the blank]. An extra beer ticket, a different color T-shirt, discounted entry to another event, a pair of socks... you get the idea. Look at events that are growing (Spartan/Tough Mudder, ultras, trail races, gravel, etc.) and borrow what's working for them.

This isn't rocket science, just good business sense unobstructed by purist values.

---

Brenden Macy
Sports & Entertainment Attorney
I am Drive. I am Grit. I am Determination.

I think that may be best suited to a ranking poll. Leave out the stuff that the ST crowd fights over and ask the general public: What are the top 5 things that would convince you to do a triathlon? I think it's a safe assumption that the answers from a group of non-triathletes would be very different from what the ST crowd would say.

---

Brenden Macy
Sports & Entertainment Attorney
I am Drive. I am Grit. I am Determination.

Yes. Thank you.

We asked somewhat of the opposite question. While it hurt me deep inside, I was surprised how many felt the bike was preventing them from being interested in triathlon/multisport. Eliminating the bike and throwing in some other 'stuff' like obstacles/workouts/movements would cut logistics and costs down a TON as well and lower the barrier of entry for race directors or potential race directors. No bike could possibly eliminate a transition area.

But then what separates that from obstacle course racing? A run or two and a few laps in a pool or swimming across a pond/lake instead of a wall climb and crawling under barbed wire seems like OCR instead of a almost-triathlon.

Others have reacted to this stance, and I agree. Local running and tri races here in central Illinois use very good direct marketing email campaigns (they could use social media more effectively) that are engaging and informative. Makes a huge difference for many of us planning a race calendar many months out.

Coverage of issues like environment, timing technology, course design, local tourism, swag, public lands, and politics are part of these campaigns and read like local versions of a good tri magazine.

2 cents.

Andrew Moss

I did a small local sprint and was asked my age as my leg was being marked. I was in the 55-59 group and the girl marking my leg stated that there were a lot of people in that group. I thought she was making sort of a joke, thinking that this small race, at a college, would have mostly younger participants. Couldn't believe that she was right, and my age group was the largest, plus a good amount in older groups. That's when I realized that the triathlon wasn't going to be a growth sport anymore.

I'm old and turning into a curmudgeon. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!

Traffic killed those races - the roads got so busy it was no longer safe to ride.
The race organization changed in 2014, and the new RD didn't set up any bike course marshals. I saw a couple of bike/car close calls in my two laps of the course, so I'm sure there were more. Even with marshals the HR roads and drivers are bad enough to make it dangerous on any given Saturday.

I miss the races from Aurora Reservoir, great swimming and running around the res. But some grouches living down the road resented bikers on their road, and got it closed to racing. Another bike/car problem, really.

Gravel tris make a lot of sense to me. It seems the most expensive part of a road tri must be getting the road permits, police, safety for the bikes, etc. Putting it on gravel away from cars is a win-win..

I don’t disagree with your traffic comment in general but the first wave went off at 6:00. I was done before 7:10. I don’t recall it being an issue with cars that early.

I wasn’t a big fan of the turnover in race direction.

I do very little road riding anymore. Mostly Mtn bike and gravel.

I would seriously consider a gravel tri if it was close to home.

---

Formerly DrD

You forgot Semper Tri on pendleton, and Carlsbad.

This is what limits me. I used to do 10+ sprints a season. Now just 2 or 3, and those are typically smaller ones with less expensive entries.

All the koz events in San Diego are 100+ unless you sign up way early. Some even then. That's my breakover point... a 70 minute event isn't worth that much.

In the UK I've noticed the dearth of Olympic Distance races; you know, the one where you are expected to be a 'rounded' triathlete and penalised for paying lip service to swimming! There are still plenty of Sprints, Halves and a reasonable sprinkling of Full Dist events. But Olympics are where the black hole exists.

---

29 years and counting

Hi Brenden,

I think you are correct. For "Non-triathletes," what they may look for is a cool medal, nice shirt, finisher photos, instant results with tv and results kiosk...in short, things that can be used to capitalize on via social media.

When that is combined with requirements of a tri, such as safety, well marked course, traffic control, organized race, awards, food, volunteers, the event becomes, much like any other business proposition, an exercise in service provision and cost management.

We put on 2 sprint tris a year that get 120-150 athletes and have been able to eke out a bit of profit of $2000 an event. It is a lot of work for that kind of return but it is fun. I have to keep focused on the fact that I'm on the get rich slow program!

Thanks!

Mark

---

Fast-Finishes.com
Triathlon and Running Race Timing
Athletic Event Management

There is the race and there is the experience. You used to be able to just sell the race because Triathlon was new and cool and the race was the experience.

Not any more.

Put an optional 50 foot slip and slide at the finish line.
Live music
Beer tent on the run
Alternative finish line where you can take pictures with your kids/friends

I don’t know. 100 different things one could do. Create a theme, create an experience.

I did our areas first tri in 1983. I did that tri every year until it folded in 1989. Tris were a lot more popular, bigger, and many more of them in the 80's, than now. In the early to mid 80's there were several big events, and smaller events put on by every Y, several bike stores, the local university, and the local swim club. There were more tris than 5K's. I got to see the death of them. They pretty much didn't exist in the 90's. Then we got a new local race in 2002, with the completely new crowd, and it's slowly built back up to 3 local tris now. But just a shadow of what it used to be.

Our local early tris were all over the map, with race distances determined by lake and park and venue sizes. They were a blast. They weren't regulated by a book full of rules, and there wasn't some stupid insurance you had to buy. Your signature on the race entry form was good enough. Mass swim starts. Drafting on the bike (drafting is part of bike racing!), and who cared if your wife handed you a water bottle on the run, or you wore your speedo the whole race, and ran toppless. Then something called Trifed emerged on the scene. In one season $20 races were $50, and you had to buy a membership to an insurance company. Then to make it even worse, they tried to standardize all the distances to the races we had come to love. Then to make it even worse, they imposed a ton of new rules... and for a couple years even tried to regulate bike technology. But for those of us who loved to race hard, the real killer was the suddenly idiotic and absurd new drafting rules. It may be the norm now. But take a bunch of guys who had been drafting as part of their races for the last 5 years, and start penalizing them for it. It did not go over well, and most of the locals just quit the whole ruined overpriced over regulates rule infested fiasco that Trifed turned our beloved sport into. Between 1987 and 1989, all but one of our local races folded. And attendance for that one dropped from several hundred, to lucky to see 50 folks sign up. From someone who loves the sport, saw it explode, and then die: Trifed (Now USAT) in general, and drafting rules specifically, killed the sport, almost before it got off the ground. And it's never been the same.

---

Athlinks / Strava

Aaron, what's your thoughts on the Houston area scene right now? I'm very analytical about things, like you are, and knowing you've won lots of races around here I'd like to hear your thoughts. When I go out to spectate what were once huge races like Towne Lake, Bridgeland, Kemah, CB&I... I sort of cringe at how low the participation amounts are compared to 5 years ago.

The WTC races hum along just fine around here but boy are the sprints and olympics struggling.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

The race has been the experience for me since I've been in HS. If young adults are burned out on competition (other than e-sports) by their mid 20s that's on their parents and it is sad. I doubt burnout is the reason the majority of millennials who could be doing triathlons aren't participating. Just because the race is the experience for me doesn't me that I when I was younger and just starting to do tris that I didn't want to do the big races that had the beer, the live music, the cool swag, the fancy set-up. It just wasn't the main thing.

So I'm as old school as you can get, but I did the Divvy division (the docked rental bike) at the Chicago tri a couple of years ago. It was a lot of fun. The undocked Lime bicycles are now available in many cities. I'd suggest RDs work a deal with Lime to have bikes at their tris so that someone can show up without a bicycle and do a tri.

Of course, Lime also rents electric scooters, which seem to be more popular than the Lime bicycles among young people where I live. If most young people choose an e-scooter over pedaling a bike for their short trips, I really don't think there's much hope for triathlon attracting many young people going forward.