As far as you know is wrong then. I'm not even close to the max. The highest sodium losses seen at Gatorade Sports Science is 4,000mg/hour. So, over an equivalent period of time, more than double what I'd lose. And it's not like that person was several standard deviations out of the norm. I know several folks that require 500-1000mg of sodium more than I do.

OK, fair enough. Two questions though: 1) can you point me at the publication for that and 2) how does this mesh with what Tim Noakes has written about sodium replacement - as I recall he's argued very forcefully that salt loss through sweating, even at very high rates, doesn't deplete physiological sodium levels. I'm genuinely trying to work this out, not having a dig at you.

Ta

Rob

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Vanity Blog http://triathlonfoolishness.blogspot.com/

well, actually it's an LD50 dose for a 10kg rat but you know what I mean

There are 22 pound rats roaming the halls of American scientific institutions? Imagine the possibilities.

it's not published. When I was on the Timex Team, Gatorade was a sponsor. So I asked them the exact question. And that was their response. I also know a guy who was among the highest tested at GSSI - had a LOT of problems until he went and got tested - who echoed what they told me.

It doesn't mesh with what Noakes has written. But keep in mind that Noakes is the outlier. He says "you shouldn't need sodium based off XYZ." But despite the fact that athletes "shouldn't" need sodium to prevent cramping, a ton of athletes find that simply adding sodium helps prevent it. Ergo, you can take what Noakes says *should* be the case _OR_ you can look at what actually seems to work. You tell me who you are going to believe. Given that Noakes's theories - not just the salt one - are hardly universally accepted, I don't exactly consider Noakes to be much of an authority. He seems to have a lot of theories. But many of his theories seem to stand in pretty stark contrast to what actually happens.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

"Rodents Of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist."

Rapp, Brian, thanks for this great discussion!

Victor

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Being in the medical field and begin an athlete I can tell you this, if you have normal functioning kidneys...you can intake all the salt you want and it won't do a damn thing to hurt you. If, however, you take in too little sodium...then your countdown begins. The simple point that was made here, that some of you are missing, is that WHATEVER Jordan did for nutrition was what works for him through trial and error and he's not going to change that for anyone posting in some forum. If he said he did 10 jumping jacks and a few squat thrusts in transition and that's why he was able to knock out lightening fast bike splits then so be it...again, WHATEVER works for him, you don't have to like it, just accept it. Great job in AZ, thanks for posting your nutrition report, it was insightful. It's always fun to take a peak in a master craftsman's mind for a little bit.

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I got nothing.

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

Na and muscle cramps are one thing, I definitely see benefit from Na to prevent quad and calf cramps. What about stomach/colon cramps and runner's trots? I dropped my salt tabs in my last race early on the bike. It wasn't a hot day so it wasn't a disaster and I ran pretty well. BUT I ran through the finish line straight to the port-a-potty. Have you noticed a salt effect on runner's trots?

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Brian
“Eat and Drink, spin the legs and you’re going to effin push (today).” A Howe

I get pretty severe "race nerves" in the morning. So by the time I get to the race, there is almost nothing left to need to trot for. I've gotten pretty good about knowing what to eat (and what not to eat) the 24hrs prior to a race to prevent it. Salt doesn't seem to make much difference in that regard for me. Too much caffeine does, though. I've taken some "extra" PreRace before. That leads to the trots. I feel fast. But it's a delicate balance between running and getting the runs with caffeine.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

If Noakes is a scientist then he will be using evidence based conclusions. I am a big fan of evidence based medicine but the fact remains there are some outcomes that have yet to be proven but it does not make them false.

He is saying that you shouldn't need sodium based on XYZ (where XYZ is what he feels should be considered in an athlete). I doubt he would stand up and say XYZ is exactly what happens on race day because like it or not people seem to perform better with that supplement.

The variable seems to be not whether the supplement works, but how does XYZ differ from a real life situation.

Science does not necessarily always provide solutions but searches for an understanding of what is actually happening. It looks like the supplements work but he just does not exactly know why it seems.

Jordan seems to be doing pretty well avoiding Noakes current scientific conclusion!

Nice work yesterday by the way :)

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https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

Are EFS bars out again?
They were the only fructose free bar out there.

Awesome results and as always, thanks for the feedback.

Is Selenium in any of your supplements and if so, how much are you ingesting leading up to a race?

Scott

There's some - 200% US FDA RDA - in the First Endurance Multi-V, but that's all I take. I know Selenium is very much on the First Endurance radar for the next evolution of Multi-V.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Unfortunately, yes. I hoarded a few after I got my last box so I'd have them for the race.

First Endurance is looking into a new manufacturer for their bars to prevent these shortages from happening.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

As Jordan noted, we've been out for the better part of this season. With that, I'm told we'll have them again early in 2011.

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Brian Shea
http://www.PersonalBestNutrition.com
Open-Water/Masters Swimming at the Jersey Shore:
Monmouth County NJ Ocean Swim/Masters Workouts

Please get those things back!!!

I've got one left in my closet and am saving it for the next race I might need it.

But would love a box...or a case for that matter.

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Portside Athletics Blog

Trust me, I know & hear it every day. What I should have done is put our remaining boxes on e-bay as we probably could have gotten about $100 /box :)

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Brian Shea
http://www.PersonalBestNutrition.com
Open-Water/Masters Swimming at the Jersey Shore:
Monmouth County NJ Ocean Swim/Masters Workouts