I think triathlon has missed a major potential sponsor:

Rapp and Allen might be able to take in well over 350 calories an hour, but for most AGers, GI issues are created by taking in more than 250-300/hr. Why has nobody addressed the reverse of what you are saying... training the body to burn fat more efficiently over a longer period of time? Bob Seebohar has shown some very promising results using this theory with some of his athletes, as have I.

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Ryan Riell
Head Coach/Founder
Break Through Multisport Inc.
http://www.BreakThroughMultisport.com
Ryan@BreakThroughMultisport.com

- They are bookends. The between-the-aerobars bottle is meant for the start. And the aerobottle is meant for the end. Gatorade in between. Special needs is if I drop a bottle. I don't plan to stop there.

- I assume you mean ClifShot. It's for the caffeine. PreRace is too strong to microdose, IMO.

EDIT: unless you mean Gu Roctane, in which case it's because I think it's the second best gel out there and it can be taped to the aerobars, allowing me to start the ride with 1200 calories on the frame without needing to stop for a new flask of EFS.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Your bones might be heavier than mine. I've ALWAYS been light. I could ask you how to get to 179, because I tried, and never even came close...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Thanks for getting back to me!

So do you use those bookends at all, or just in emergencies?

I've never used the Gatorade on the bike course, but if I can lighten my load a bit, I'll try it.

Is the Gatorade sufficient enough, with the addition of Saltstick caps?

BTW, Great race! You've got me looking into an S-Works Transition for next year

Always drink them.

Gatorade is pretty good. It's very adequate for racing with added SaltStick.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

As always - Excellent write up! And Congrats on the awesome result!

I notice that besides the BCAA's and glutamine in the EFS, minimal protein intake.
Question: What is the source of caffeine on the bike nutrition? Roctane (3 @ 35mg) + Cliffshot (1.33 @ 55mg)= 178mg (I remember reading that Jordan was looking to supplement some additional caffeine.)

Why has nobody addressed the reverse of what you are saying... training the body to burn fat more efficiently over a longer period of time? Bob Seebohar has shown some very promising results using this theory with some of his athletes, as have I.

Because there is no science I'm aware of to back that assertion up?

How can you tell if one of your athletes is "burning fat"?

-Jot

There is a TON of science to back this up... you get them into an exercise physiology lab and have them do a simple RER (Respiratory Exchange Ratio) also known as metabolic efficiency. Is the same basic setup as a VO2, but a little different protocol, nowhere near max effort. Out pops numbers and there you go.

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Ryan Riell
Head Coach/Founder
Break Through Multisport Inc.
http://www.BreakThroughMultisport.com
Ryan@BreakThroughMultisport.com

I know this is a nutrition report, but do you not take any water on the bike?

Thanks
Ewan

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Ewan

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I agree entirely about the sodium Dan.

I was actually thinking he wold be in the vicinty of 800-1100 mg's per hour, but wow , that is high.
I live and train in South East Asia where it it is impertive to be on top of your electrolytes or suffer severe consequences.

I thought I was on the high side myself , ingesting 900-1000 during IM and HIM events.
During IM Canada this year I lowered my sodium consumption to 700mg's per hour even.

Anyway , great info thanks to Jordan and his team for posting it.

A bit disappointed with the limited amount of bacon in the pre-race breakfast............will Canada allow him back in :)


Dan your idea of top pro's nutritional breakdown on race day ( and th day prior as well ) would be very informative and educational , no doubt. Hopefully some read and post. Or perhaps Herbert and Jay can get a complilation through interviews ?

Cheers,

Terry

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"You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream" - Les Brown
"Discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment" - Jim Rohn

I always have been skinny until I quit multisports 14 years ago and then the weight went on, I guess I just keep plugging away, i have gone from 215 to 179 in 1 1/2 years, maybe next year.

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Dev- Yeah back in Turkey and I am in a class right now so not as much time to be on ST. But O well its only 4 weeks long and then I will be back to the real world and making sure they are landing rubber side down. Hope you made it back home alright and enjoy the holiday season.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

There is a TON of science to back this up.

Pubmed citations or other peer reviewed citations?

-Jot

No water. I cramp in my stomach almost immediately if I drink water. When I drink water during training, I always take salt or gel first.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Why not just add table salt to to the bottles? Why does it need to be salt stick?

Two reasons:
- *some* table salt has other things you don't want, like iodine, in it.
- the other three electrolytes - calcium, magnesium, potassium (salt provides just sodium and chloride) - are also very important. SaltStick contains all five electrolytes (technically, there are six if you include zinc, but you can't take large doses of zinc as it is very toxic, unlike sodium, for example, which your kidneys flush quite easily) in a ratio that approximates typical human sweat (obviously some people sweat out more of one or the other).

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

hi, congratulations on the second win, i got to ask though, as someone who seems to care much about their nutrition and health to the point that you cut out gluten and dairy (which i agree are good ideas) i find it interesting that you turn your body into a human supplement and salt factory, you take 1800% vitamin E before a race? every study says that vitamin E supplementation either does nothing or is actually dangerous, also the fact that you 3 - 5 time the amount of sodium as most, i would question why you need that much, is it because you eat so much salt in your regular diet that your body needs mega doses in race too? a lot of people on here seem to think that being a triathlete somehow exempts them from the fact that salt is unhealthy

And where are you getting that I take 1800% of the RDA of Vitamin E? As far as I can tell, I take only what is in Multi-V, which is 200IU. Yes, that is 675% of the RDA per dose (not 1800%), but that's also not accounting for what is optimal for an endurance athlete. I.e., it's 675% of the RDA for the baseline. The RDA is also generally regarded as the minimum of what you need to NOT GET SICK, not necessarily what is optimal in terms of BEING HEALTHY. The Vitamin E study that was done was done, IIRC, with well more than 200IU.

Why is salt unhealthy? Salt in and of itself is not inherently unhealthy by any means.

But the real issue with addressing whether or not salt or "excess" vitamins is unhealthy with regards to Ironman "nutrition" is that Ironman itself is inherently unhealthy. Especially at the highest level. High level athletics is about performance, not about health. How many world class athletes do you know that exceed the national average for lifespan? Most of them are on the short end. So I would say that what I'm doing is not something that's particularly good for me, and it's a massive load, and so I think it's perfectly reasonable to do certain things from a supplementation standpoint to offset that. The FDA did not set vitamin RDAs or salt recommendations based around the physiology of elite athletes. And they especially did not base them around elite athletes WHEN THEY ARE RACING. I wish I could find it, but a study I read a while back equated the tissue damage to elite level marathoners after a race with post-traumatic surgery patients.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

The FDA did not set vitamin RDAs or salt recommendations based around the physiology of elite athletes. And they especially did not base them around elite athletes WHEN THEY ARE RACING

Exactly. And, they are set on a 2000 calorie diet. I'm willing to bet you take in more than 2000 a day. You can't even compare the needs of the average lazy person to what Jordan does or even what you and I do.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Largely, yes they are drinking too much water. Plenty of science has been done on this - real science not just science that has been passed across the marketing desk before being released.

On another note - everytime I quote, my reply ends up inside the quotation, how do I avoid that?

 

And where are you getting that I take 1800% of the RDA of Vitamin E? As far as I can tell, I take only what is in Multi-V, which is 200IU. Yes, that is 675% of the RDA per dose (not 1800%), but that's also not accounting for what is optimal for an endurance athlete. I.e., it's 675% of the RDA for the baseline. The RDA is also generally regarded as the minimum of what you need to NOT GET SICK, not necessarily what is optimal in terms of BEING HEALTHY. The Vitamin E study that was done was done, IIRC, with well more than 200IU.

Why is salt unhealthy? Salt in and of itself is not inherently unhealthy by any means.

But the real issue with addressing whether or not salt or "excess" vitamins is unhealthy with regards to Ironman "nutrition" is that Ironman itself is inherently unhealthy. Especially at the highest level. High level athletics is about performance, not about health. How many world class athletes do you know that exceed the national average for lifespan? Most of them are on the short end. So I would say that what I'm doing is not something that's particularly good for me, and it's a massive load, and so I think it's perfectly reasonable to do certain things from a supplementation standpoint to offset that. The FDA did not set vitamin RDAs or salt recommendations based around the physiology of elite athletes. And they especially did not base them around elite athletes WHEN THEY ARE RACING. I wish I could find it, but a study I read a while back equated the tissue damage to elite level marathoners after a race with post-traumatic surgery patients.[/reply]
you may be either unaware of what is in the products you are taking or the person that wrote your nutrition report got it wrong, he stated you took two scoops of ultragen, which according to the link, contains 1250% vitamin e, plus you took the multivitamin which contains 675% vitamin E, so you actually took 1925% vitamin E, my point on it was that studies show vitamin e supplementation either does nothing or is dangerous, and i agree with you that endurance athletes are going to need more vitamin e than most, but still, the supplementation studies show it does nothing for you, so while i take no vitamin, but eat 2 -3 servings of almonds, and 1 -2 servings a day of broccoli and spinach, i am absorbing more vitamin e than someone taking a pill,

for the salt question, Dynamic Duo answered it perfectly, that plus now Noakes and Friel are saying we need way less sodium in training and races than was once thought, you may need that much though, i dont know, i was just asking how you got to the point where you needed that much

you may be either unaware of what is in the products you are taking or the person that wrote your nutrition report got it wrong, he stated you took two scoops of ultragen, which according to the link, contains 1250% vitamin e, plus you took the multivitamin which contains 675% vitamin E, so you actually took 1925% vitamin E, my point on it was that studies show vitamin e supplementation either does nothing or is dangerous, and i agree with you that endurance athletes are going to need more vitamin e than most, but still, the supplementation studies show it does nothing for you, so while i take no vitamin, but eat 2 -3 servings of almonds, and 1 -2 servings a day of broccoli and spinach, i am absorbing more vitamin e than someone taking a pill,

for the salt question, Dynamic Duo answered it perfectly, that plus now Noakes and Friel are saying we need way less sodium in training and races than was once thought, you may need that much though, i dont know, i was just asking how you got to the point where you needed that much[/reply]

No, you are right. I'm just not used to taking Ultragen in the morning before a race, so I forgot to include that. In any case, the studies on vitamin E were done on relatively sedentary (aka "average" folks). I am not aware of studies either way on "excess" vitamin E supplementation for endurance athletes. I also eat a lot of almonds (I eat a LOT of nuts) and broccoli and spinach and generally high quality foods.

I don't consider what Joe Friel says about salt (or much of anything else) to be anything tat I'd listen to, but that's neither here nor there. Noakes, on the other hand, has an active research background that lends him some credibility, but even Noakes is certainly not without his critics.

I actually ate a relatively low sodium diet. But what I do know is that I used to cramp a lot during races. Once I started supplementing with electrolytes, it stopped. Nothing else changed. And the same thing happens now if I don't supplement with electrolytes.

I believe in having your foundation in REAL food. I don't look at supplements as a replacement for a balanced diet; I look at them the way I think they ought to be looked at - as SUPPLEMENTS. I also would say that once you start talking about high-level athletics of any sort - where performance, not necessarily health is the primary focus - things change drastically.

As JenHS said, should I also abide by a 2000 calorie a day diet? I don't have huge faith in the FDA. This is the same group that gave us the "Food Pyramid." Just what we need - maximum daily servings of refined grains!

Ultimately, I think you and I probably think more alike than differently. I just think it's difficult - though not impossible - to really replenish what you give up solely by eating raw ingredients. So I suppose I'm willing to be a bit of a pragmatist on some of these things.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp