What does a typical week look like now?

Usually it’s something like the below. I can usually do 2-3 weeks like this, and then make the next week recovery.



M - 60-70% FTP for an hour. Or easy spin if needed

T - 50 min zwift race. 30 mins spin on either side

W - rest and sleep in a bit

R - 60 min zwift race. 20 min spin

F - easy day for about an hour

Sat - 2 hour ride. Usually an interval workout or race for an hour

Sunday - rest or easy spin for an hour

Have you used Trainer Road? I've only used Zwift a little bit and can't remember if they have training plans. Trainer Road seems to be a bit more "scientific" in their training plans so might be a better option than Zwift.

I'm kinda new at this but that seems like a pretty light load.

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"They know f_ck-all over at Slowtwitch"
- Lionel Sanders

Agree with Fuller, it seems lite. Signup for TrainerRoad and start their sweet spot base plan, probably medium build. It will have you doing a whole lot more work, and have you doing it more often throughout the week. That will get you to bump up.

+1 to the previous posts, specifically TrainerRoad SweetSpot Base Mid Volume. I just finished this program and in twelve weeks raised my Ramp Test FTP 10%, so you could find an extra 1% :). Prior to this I had been riding a decent amount but not "training" so it was a good punch, and saw some other benefits too, namely durability to handle longer, harder rides. Seems it would be a new stimulus for you too - lots of work at 85,90,up to 100% FTP - 3-4 days a week.

I will either repeat it or go on to the TR build at some point, but after doing a more in-depth Physiology test in the lab I have some other things I need to work on this winter before I pile on more SS load.

I get up at 430 to ride until 6 when kids get up.

Not much opportunity to ride more during the week.

Can add on weekends, but my body seems to struggle during the week if I add too much more intensity on weekend. Found 2 hours sat allows me to hammer 2x during the week

Is there a benefit to doing a structured plan rather than zwift races? I’ve been asking myself this for some time, maybe time to give it a shot

Why do you suggest a base plan?

Sweet spot base mid volume plan is going to have you doing efforts of 88-94% four times a week for 10-20 min intervals. Its not slow spinning base work.

If you did this plan again, would you see another 10% gain?

I get 2-3 rides a week at near 100% effort for 45-60 mins. So I’m not new to thrashing myself

I’ve wondered, tho, if by not going 100% so frequently for that long, if I can squeeze in another day of intervals. But 4x / week seems a bit much for more than a few weeks

I bet I could get 5% again, but probably not 10, because now I've adapted somewhat to this type of riding and I need a new stimulus. However I think that if I switch gears and work on current limiters while putting threshold/SS work in maintenance mode, then I can hold current FTP, and when I go back to the plan I could get another 10% at that point.

When you say thrashing yourself near 100% is this steady state riding, or is this surging, sprinting, then recovering in the group, averaging to 100? AP or NP? Because this is definitely hard and makes you strong, but holding the steady efforts below threshold for long bouts is what really seems to build that lactate clearing power.

ETA: I started this plan in August because I needed to do SOMETHING, so timing wise I also need to stretch myself out and add variety, since I'm targeting events next summer.

Usually about 1.10 VI. So not quite like a road race, but not steady either

My AP is usually .90-.95. IF

Me and you should both pick a plan and see if we both can get 10% gain =)

While my power isn't near yours yet, I would trust TrainerRoad plans to get you there. When I got my first smart trainer (CycleOps Hammer) last Christmas, I signed up for TrainerRoad shortly after the new-year. First FTP test pegged me at 210W. After each of my three IM training cycles this year my power went up about 10%. Last test was 270W, so almost 30% increase after just 9 months. I'm due for my next test in 2 weeks when I expect it to be up again. I was 12 IMs deep with a ~10:30 IM PR, which isn't fast but I wasn't a couch potato when I first got TrainerRoad either.

The classic Flanagan thread is worthwhile read:
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=2932430#p2932430

Hmm, ok! My plan for the next 15 weeks, if I was do to it in TR, would be Mid Volume Traditional Base PLUS a time-crunched or low volume power plan - except I will do the traditional zone 2 rides just cruising in Zwift or outside, and then do the shorter, harder maintenance power workouts in TR. Then I will be ready to do either SSB or Build again, and I will take my 10%, and hopefully more!

Thanks for posting this

I agree with the others, the high vol. sweet spot plan on Trainerroad did wonders for me this past year. Zwift racing is great for developing some top end, but you've got to dig pretty deep in those races and it's real hard getting in consistent interval training on top of that. I feel the Zwift racing is best done near the beginning of the race season, not during the FTP build. The sweet spot plans typically call for weekends of 2 hours both Saturday and Sunday, each doing intervals. It's a healthy dose of interval training, it may make your legs quite heavy the first few weeks as you adapt to it. Make sure to do the FTP test before you start so the ERG doesn't kill you mid session. My wife was actually quite happy about me doing this plan b/c I was able to forego the 4+ hour weekend ride I had typically done in prior years.

Re: sweet spot work. I notice that when moving to sweet spot base 2, there is usually a day of v02 per week.
I been doing v02 as part of the sprint tri plan. Anyone go back to sweet spot and ditch v02 stuff? It seems TR has v02 in many plans and I’m a bit over them to be honest.
I have a feeling id be better served spending more time at 88-100% for a block and not above.

consistent time at a power level does different things to the variability of a race.
The main thing is that stagnated progression requires a change of stimulus. Lower intensity so you can ride more doesn't sound like an option, so structure would be a good thing to try.

Depends.

If racing helps motivate you it may mean you do more training. But if you are truely racing, each of these sessions is going to push you to your limit and may not allow you recover sufficiently for the next without scheduling longer periods between hard sessions. On the other hand if you are riding the races without going all in and essentially using them as hard training groups, it may equate to sweet spot training in which case maybe you can do them back to back or add in some structured 2x20 closer threshold pace, or over unders, or VO2max intervals, or a mix of these, elsewhere in your schedule.

Consistency of training is great and essential to the best gains. Consistency of stimulus can lead to plateau.

I might have to try it out for a block or two

I love racing and I have a blast doing so. But would more prefer to be faster :)

Dropping intensity will lower TSS / week. My count is I’ll drop ~10 CTL unless I Can hours (not way to do)

I'm in a bit of the same boat as you in terms of stagnant FTP. I've never really followed a plan...just rode however I felt like riding, because I don't really enjoy riding all that much! This off-season, I've decided to address my power deficiency so I'm about a week into Zwift's TT Tune-up plan and I'm really enjoying it and I'm not dreading riding anymore, which is a pleasant change. All different types of training stimuli and it never gets boring and you never have to go much more than an hour. My plan is to finish the 8-week plan, then do some TR sweet spot base, then do TR sustained power build into 70.3 season (adding in the occasional proverbial long ride). I'll create those workouts in Zwift because I find TR's interface is so mind-numbing. No clue if this is the "right" approach, but I feel like it's what I need to address my weak areas.

So, long story short - check out Zwift's TT Tune-up and see what you think!

I'm suggesting you could perhaps drop the intensity of some in order to raise the intensity of others. Not drop your overall TSS. It depends how you're currently racing and whether you have more time available or can re-distribute it, or need to work within the times you currently use. If truely pushing to your limit in races, then you probably need the recovery days. Then to change things you probably need to sacrifice some races if you want to do useful structured sessions. You may or may not lose TSS but it may be worth it. On the other hand, if the races are nearer sweetspot intensity, perhaps you could manage some intensity on some of the days you currently take it easy. Maybe it would be useful to add something like VO2max intervals or 2x20min @FTP. If it's feasible to do these in place of easy rides, it would increase your weekly TSS.
As a general rule I aim to have some variety in my plan. So, typically I've done a few sessions trying to include plenty riding near threshold. So that's typically appropriate group rides/races, 2x20 sessions, or over/under intervals. Then I'd also do some higher intensity stuff, perhaps 30x1min in high VO2max range or 18-25mins of VO2max work, structured as 3minx8, 4minx6 or 5minx5.
Alternatively instead of a programmed workout, I'll do something like repeats above FTP on the short hill in Watopia, or a PB attempt on the Epic climb. I find it slightly de-motivating to only do programmed sessions so mixing in some group rides/races, and terrain based intervals work well for me. I don't subscribe to the view that the best sessions are all based on pre-determined power figures and the clock.

My IF usually averages >0.75 for a week (little lower on rest weeks where I drop 1-2 races) so I don’t think it’s an intensity issue

Like you said tho - might be about changing up the workouts a bit to grow differently