Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Race in Our Sport
Quote | Reply
Clearly something top of mind and I personally have been thinking about this more and more. I read this article on Medium last night that I thought helped highlight and articulate some of my thoughts better than I could. Wanted to post it here to hopefully drive some more discussion about how to drive more inclusion in the sport (esp given the Ironman, Slowtwitch references) etc.

https://medium.com/...thletes-94276a8778fd


Last edited by: newtryguy101: Jun 11, 20 8:20
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [newtryguy101] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
newtryguy101 wrote:
Clearly something top of mind and I personally have been thinking about this more and more. I read this article on Medium last night that I thought helped highlight and articulate some of my thoughts better than I could. Wanted to post it here to hopefully drive some more discussion about how to drive more inclusion in the sport (esp given the Ironman, Slowtwitch references) etc.

https://medium.com/...thletes-94276a8778fd


i can't answer for the other magazines. but i can certainly answer for this one.

we have 2 opinion pieces about this. they've been written for a week. one by me. another by another member of our editorial staff. they're not published yet. why?

because, what has been our habit is to just do the work. year in, year out. write about people of color. black triathletes specifically. shine a light on them. celebrate them. talk about the successes, and the challenges. i'm not going to link to all the articles, to prove our virtue. anyone who's interested in what we've written can find them.

my concern - and maybe i'm right, maybe i'm wrong - is that a lot of people are going to show their support for what is going on over the last 2 weeks, through their opinion pieces. and then... what? demonstrating our virtue when we're inoculated by blowback, because we're riding the tailwind of public opinion, doesn't sit well with me. the author of that article notes that 1 percent of triathletes are black. writing a piece on the murder or george floyd will solve that 1 percent problem how?

what the author of that piece probably doesn't know is that much of the editorial staff here has been involved - for years, not days or weeks - in this question of how to make triathlon more inviting, accessible, affordable, not only to black triathletes, but black business owners in triathlon. several of us were on a conference call with USA Triathlon yesterday, such standing calls taking place either weekly, twice monthly, or twice weekly depending on the season. this has been the case for years, not days or weeks.

there are two issues the author of that piece talks about, and the solutions to each aren't connected. one is the issue animating us today: entrenched police behaviors and protections that disproportionately affect people of color; as well as the broader issues that cause black people to interact more with police is fair or just. the second issue is diversity in triathlon. the only connecting strand between these is the facepalming running-while-black issue - and this doesn't center around the police and george floyd but ahmaud arbery. i've been phone tagging with the president of a prominent black male runners association since the end of last week on this. it infuriates me that a black man would feel in any peril simply through the process of going on a run.

my instinct, and my behavior thus far, has been to not write the pieces that make me feel good, display our virtue, that show we're on the right side of history. rather it's just to do the work. in 6 months, to still do the work. in 3 years, to still do the work. the men's running org to which i referred has a saying: "we are all we've got." this is a problem. this isn't their problem to fix. it's our problem. it's my problem. they should not feel alone in this. rather than writing a we-stand-in-solidarity piece, my instinct is to interview the black men comprising that org and find out what we can do to make them feel that they only have each other.

the diversity problem, however, is more associated with the swim. black kids between 5 and 15 years old are about 5 times more likely to drown than white kids. i've been in a fight with my own city for the last 2 years over a specific outreach to the black community, not to hold swim lessons when it's convenient for the city, but when it's convenient for the black citizens who live there. they pay taxes to upkeep our pools, but they don't enjoy the benefit of them. waking up one future day and finding that your race has more black triathletes begins with waking up today and asking yourself what you're doing to change the trajectory of this. if you decide this is something you want to do, you're going to find that the only thing approaching the citywide roadbloacks to changing bad police behavior is the intransigence in those same cities to fixing aquatic illiteracy among underserved populations.

nevertheless, we have still written these 2 OpEds. mostly i wrote mine for myself, because i'm madder than i can tell you about what is going on today. but if you want more diversity in our sport, it starts with difficult, arduous, thankless pipeline work that an opinion piece isn't going to solve.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Last edited by: Slowman: Jun 11, 20 9:12
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [newtryguy101] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This has been discussed in this Slowtwitch forum recently if you or the author of the Medium piece weren't aware:
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...an-american#p6995544
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...)_P7064141/#p7064141

Agree that the discussion should continue in the endurance sports community, but I have witnessed the efforts made by the Slowtwitch editorial staff to address these topics prior to the recent protests.
Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Jun 14, 20 11:33
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
As an African-American triathlete I really love your attitude. Enough with the writing of 'what we can do, should do' etc. etc. Put in tedious, consistent, hard work and the results will follow. There are no shortcuts to diversity or defeating racism.

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
newtryguy101 wrote:
Clearly something top of mind and I personally have been thinking about this more and more. I read this article on Medium last night that I thought helped highlight and articulate some of my thoughts better than I could. Wanted to post it here to hopefully drive some more discussion about how to drive more inclusion in the sport (esp given the Ironman, Slowtwitch references) etc.

https://medium.com/...thletes-94276a8778fd


i can't answer for the other magazines. but i can certainly answer for this one.

we have 2 opinion pieces about this. they've been written for a week. one by me. another by another member of our editorial staff. they're not published yet. why?

because, what has been our habit is to just do the work. year in, year out. write about people of color. black triathletes specifically. shine a light on them. celebrate them. talk about the successes, and the challenges. i'm not going to link to all the articles, to prove our virtue. anyone who's interested in what we've written can find them.

my concern - and maybe i'm right, maybe i'm wrong - is that a lot of people are going to show their support for what is going on over the last 2 weeks, through their opinion pieces. and then... what? demonstrating our virtue when we're inoculated by blowback, because we're riding the tailwind of public opinion, doesn't sit well with me. the author of that article notes that 1 percent of triathletes are black. writing a piece on the murder or george floyd will solve that 1 percent problem how?

what the author of that piece probably doesn't know is that much of the editorial staff here has been involved - for years, not days or weeks - in this question of how to make triathlon more inviting, accessible, affordable, not only to black triathletes, but black business owners in triathlon. several of us were on a conference call with USA Triathlon yesterday, such standing calls taking place either weekly, twice monthly, or twice weekly depending on the season. this has been the case for years, not days or weeks.

there are two issues the author of that piece talks about, and the solutions to each aren't connected. one is the issue animating us today: entrenched police behaviors and protections that disproportionately affect people of color; as well as the broader issues that cause black people to interact more with police is fair or just. the second issue is diversity in triathlon. the only connecting strand between these is the facepalming running-while-black issue - and this doesn't center around the police and george floyd but ahmaud arbery. i've been phone tagging with the president of a prominent black male runners association since the end of last week on this. it infuriates me that a black man would feel in any peril simply through the process of going on a run.

my instinct, and my behavior thus far, has been to not write the pieces that make me feel good, display our virtue, that show we're on the right side of history. rather it's just to do the work. in 6 months, to still do the work. in 3 years, to still do the work. the men's running org to which i referred has a saying: "we are all we've got." this is a problem. this isn't their problem to fix. it's our problem. it's my problem. they should not feel alone in this. rather than writing a we-stand-in-solidarity piece, my instinct is to interview the black men comprising that org and find out what we can do to make them feel that they only have each other.

the diversity problem, however, is more associated with the swim. black kids between 5 and 15 years old are about 5 times more likely to drown than white kids. i've been in a fight with my own city for the last 2 years over a specific outreach to the black community, not to hold swim lessons when it's convenient for the city, but when it's convenient for the black citizens who live there. they pay taxes to upkeep our pools, but they don't enjoy the benefit of them. waking up one future day and finding that your race has more black triathletes begins with waking up today and asking yourself what you're doing to change the trajectory of this. if you decide this is something you want to do, you're going to find that the only thing approaching the citywide roadbloacks to changing bad police behavior is the intransigence in those same cities to fixing aquatic illiteracy among underserved populations.

nevertheless, we have still written these 2 OpEds. mostly i wrote mine for myself, because i'm madder than i can tell you about what is going on today. but if you want more diversity in our sport, it starts with difficult, arduous, thankless pipeline work that an opinion piece isn't going to solve.


Dan - I agree with you 100% - this is not easy and the approach must be sustained and continued. I know it had been discussed here before and I know efforts have and continue to be made I just wanted to highlight the article. I appreciate everything you have done and continue to do and as a minority and newer person to the sport I pledge to do more.
Last edited by: newtryguy101: Jun 11, 20 11:29
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
newtryguy101 wrote:
Clearly something top of mind and I personally have been thinking about this more and more. I read this article on Medium last night that I thought helped highlight and articulate some of my thoughts better than I could. Wanted to post it here to hopefully drive some more discussion about how to drive more inclusion in the sport (esp given the Ironman, Slowtwitch references) etc.

https://medium.com/...thletes-94276a8778fd


i can't answer for the other magazines. but i can certainly answer for this one.

we have 2 opinion pieces about this. they've been written for a week. one by me. another by another member of our editorial staff. they're not published yet. why?

because, what has been our habit is to just do the work. year in, year out. write about people of color. black triathletes specifically. shine a light on them. celebrate them. talk about the successes, and the challenges. i'm not going to link to all the articles, to prove our virtue. anyone who's interested in what we've written can find them.

my concern - and maybe i'm right, maybe i'm wrong - is that a lot of people are going to show their support for what is going on over the last 2 weeks, through their opinion pieces. and then... what? demonstrating our virtue when we're inoculated by blowback, because we're riding the tailwind of public opinion, doesn't sit well with me. the author of that article notes that 1 percent of triathletes are black. writing a piece on the murder or george floyd will solve that 1 percent problem how?

what the author of that piece probably doesn't know is that much of the editorial staff here has been involved - for years, not days or weeks - in this question of how to make triathlon more inviting, accessible, affordable, not only to black triathletes, but black business owners in triathlon. several of us were on a conference call with USA Triathlon yesterday, such standing calls taking place either weekly, twice monthly, or twice weekly depending on the season. this has been the case for years, not days or weeks.

there are two issues the author of that piece talks about, and the solutions to each aren't connected. one is the issue animating us today: entrenched police behaviors and protections that disproportionately affect people of color; as well as the broader issues that cause black people to interact more with police is fair or just. the second issue is diversity in triathlon. the only connecting strand between these is the facepalming running-while-black issue - and this doesn't center around the police and george floyd but ahmaud arbery. i've been phone tagging with the president of a prominent black male runners association since the end of last week on this. it infuriates me that a black man would feel in any peril simply through the process of going on a run.

my instinct, and my behavior thus far, has been to not write the pieces that make me feel good, display our virtue, that show we're on the right side of history. rather it's just to do the work. in 6 months, to still do the work. in 3 years, to still do the work. the men's running org to which i referred has a saying: "we are all we've got." this is a problem. this isn't their problem to fix. it's our problem. it's my problem. they should not feel alone in this. rather than writing a we-stand-in-solidarity piece, my instinct is to interview the black men comprising that org and find out what we can do to make them feel that they only have each other.

the diversity problem, however, is more associated with the swim. black kids between 5 and 15 years old are about 5 times more likely to drown than white kids. i've been in a fight with my own city for the last 2 years over a specific outreach to the black community, not to hold swim lessons when it's convenient for the city, but when it's convenient for the black citizens who live there. they pay taxes to upkeep our pools, but they don't enjoy the benefit of them. waking up one future day and finding that your race has more black triathletes begins with waking up today and asking yourself what you're doing to change the trajectory of this. if you decide this is something you want to do, you're going to find that the only thing approaching the citywide roadbloacks to changing bad police behavior is the intransigence in those same cities to fixing aquatic illiteracy among underserved populations.

nevertheless, we have still written these 2 OpEds. mostly i wrote mine for myself, because i'm madder than i can tell you about what is going on today. but if you want more diversity in our sport, it starts with difficult, arduous, thankless pipeline work that an opinion piece isn't going to solve.

Completely agree with how you are approaching this; I approach this issue the same way. I feel like there is a lot of noise right now but very little tangible actions being done. By making noise literally everywhere I feel like it is distracting from the actionable things we as a society should be focusing on to achieve progress in the right direction. A scripted press release will do much less long term than actually trying to do things to either educate or provide opportunities for more inclusion (re: swimming). As a visible minority, it is encouraging to see actionable decisions being taken over virtue signalling. Really appreciate what you are doing.
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Mark Lemmon wrote:
This has been discussed in this Slowtwitch forum recently if you or the author of the Medium piece weren't aware:
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...an-american#p6995544
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...)_P7064141/#p7064141
If you care about this issue it's worth reading that first one and thinking about the comments/commenters trying to dismiss the issue as a systemic problem.


http://www.jt10000.com/
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [newtryguy101] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I really wish people would be more specific when they post these articles because what is happening in the USA is not that same as what is happening in all of "Our Sport " globally..
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I remember an incident from the awards ceremony at the St. Croix half IM tri in 2013

There were not enough chairs on the beach where it was being held. I noticed the first floor porches of the hotel where it was at had extra chairs on each porch, so I asked the hotel manager if we could move some. He said, "sure, go ahead".

So I went over, grabbed a bunch of chairs and brought them over for my friends. I then went back and got a second round for our group,

Another athlete, (white guy) stopped me and said, "Hey, can you bring me some chairs". I said, "Sure, but you can go and get your own". He replied, "I asked you to get me some chairs", I said, "I heard you, but you can get your own, I am sorry, I am not getting you your chairs". He said, "I don't think you understand I asked you to get me some chairs". I said, "I got it, but get your own".

Later, I went and got my Kona slot (yeah). The same guy came up and said, "Oh my god, I am soooooo sorry, I did not realize you were an athlete". I said, "Its OK, I know exactly what was in your head and that's what matters and its OK that you assumed that with my dark skin, that I must be a hotel worker and probably not an athlete....that's more a failing of the society we live in, than you being a mean person. Don't worry, but you learned that not all athletes look the same".

Anyway, in North America and Europe, its been mainly all white athletes since I joined the sport in 1985. Most of us doing the sport, don't need to have people of all colours there to keep doing it, because we enjoy the sport and largely everyone around us is very nice and accommodating. The problem is to get to the start line. Almost no one is keeping us out of the sport once we are in. I really enjoyed racing at the 70.3 in Dubai recently with all colours of athletes from around the world (albeit, rich guys from all over the world....there you guy, the price off entry was economic status)
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Jun 12, 20 5:57
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
By the way, I agree that words and talk are bullshit and there is a lot of hot air in the media that no one will actually follow through on when all is done. What you are and have been doing is commendable. Actions count. How do we get more kids to the start line and into the funnel of the sport. Talk is BS.

Also keep in mind that we also have to overcome the biases that different ethnicities themselves have against doing some activities/sport. Part of it is maybe educating them on how much fun the sport is even if people who look like them do not do the sport (their sporting role models may be from other sports). Like I told you, when I started this sport in 1985, it was only white guys like you from California who were doing it. I was OK with that. The fact that people who look like me do not do the sport was not getting in the way, but not eveyone is going to think like that.
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Is the consistent theme globally a question of economic access? For example in much of the developing world, poor people cannot access swimming, because places that have pools are for rich people. What are the challenges you see in Australia, Vietnam or Thailand?
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
Is the consistent theme globally a question of economic access? For example in much of the developing world, poor people cannot access swimming, because places that have pools are for rich people. What are the challenges you see in Australia, Vietnam or Thailand?

when i was a runner in high school, and on the cross country and track teams, there was only a boys team. no girl's team. girls were invited into the world i inhabited a few years after i graduated. it took a loooooong time but - and i keep track of these stats - the combined total of girls in high school in the U.S. who swam, and who ran cross country, finally exceeded the combined total of boys who competed in those two sports, in 2013.

point being, if you want to know why women fueled the running boom, the half-mary and marathon boom, and why, subsequently, women fueled or displaced men in triathlon over the last 15 years in the U.S., this is why. access. it took deficit spending. it took hiring cross country and track coaches in the 1970s when there were no girls to coach.

if we want more black people to run, and especially to swim, we have to pay attention to this. just like we did with girls in the 1970s in running, at the high school level. if we want poor people to run and to swim, we have to pay attention to it. we have to fund it. it has to be a priority. we need to recognize the deficit as an actual thing, a problem, that needs to be fixed.

here's the hard part. we have to recognize that these skills, running, swimming, are intrinsically good. that they have instrinsic value. we recognized the intrinsic value of a girls XC high school team before very many girls and their parents were asking for it. we knew it was a valuable exercise before the overwhelming demand. we need to recognize, and plan for, fund, strategize, outreach for (let us say) swim lessons and teams for poor kids, and children of color, and adults of color, even before these populations overwhelmingly demand such access.

this is when we'll begin to see swim clubs with 300 kids, and 75 of them black.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Is the consistent theme globally a question of economic access? For example in much of the developing world, poor people cannot access swimming, because places that have pools are for rich people. What are the challenges you see in Australia, Vietnam or Thailand?


when i was a runner in high school, and on the cross country and track teams, there was only a boys team. no girl's team. girls were invited into the world i inhabited a few years after i graduated. it took a loooooong time but - and i keep track of these stats - the combined total of girls in high school in the U.S. who swam, and who ran cross country, finally exceeded the combined total of boys who competed in those two sports, in 2013.

point being, if you want to know why women fueled the running boom, the half-mary and marathon boom, and why, subsequently, women fueled or displaced men in triathlon over the last 15 years in the U.S., this is why. access. it took deficit spending. it took hiring cross country and track coaches in the 1970s when there were no girls to coach.

if we want more black people to run, and especially to swim, we have to pay attention to this. just like we did with girls in the 1970s in running, at the high school level. if we want poor people to run and to swim, we have to pay attention to it. we have to fund it. it has to be a priority. we need to recognize the deficit as an actual thing, a problem, that needs to be fixed.

here's the hard part. we have to recognize that these skills, running, swimming, are intrinsically good. that they have instrinsic value. we recognized the intrinsic value of a girls XC high school team before very many girls and their parents were asking for it. we knew it was a valuable exercise before the overwhelming demand. we need to recognize, and plan for, fund, strategize, outreach for (let us say) swim lessons and teams for poor kids, and children of color, and adults of color, even before these populations overwhelmingly demand such access.

this is when we'll begin to see swim clubs with 300 kids, and 75 of them black.

I definitely agree (I am living proof of parents who for whatever reason in the early 70's forced their kids into swim lessons when everyone around was white people). When my interest in triathlon got tweaked in 1985, I already had the basic skill to get across the pool. My first triathlon had a 1000m swim and I had never swam more than 2 lengths in my life without having to then do breast stroke to catch my breath. I went from 2 free one breast, to 4:1 to 5:1. In a week I got to 9:1. At that point, I knew I could tough it out and do 1000m (needed to do 9:1 four times). But to your point, because I had parents who forced me to learn how to swim I had the skills. Interesting point, my parents themselves did not know how to swim and took adult learn to swim lessons in the same facility in Montreal in 1970-74

Today, I don't see any adult learn to swim lessons where I live. I can't imagine there is no demand, but for whatever reason, today there is no perceived need to put on adult learn to swim courses.

By the way, by 1980, at my high school we had a full blown boy's and girls track team. Our sprint teams were stacked with black guys (and me). Distance team was white guys. I am certain that many of the black guys on the team could be excellent endurance guys (certainly the guys who did 400/800, maybe not the running back who was 50/100). None off the sprint team ran cross country. We all played soccer or football. The girls who sprinted they generally ran cross country outside of indoor and outdoor track season. A few sprinter girls played volleyball or basketball....we had less team sport teams for girls.

Our high school was across the street from one of the top swim clubs in Canada, so we had a lot of girls and boys who did their morning and afternoon swims across the street from the high school and largely slept through class all day recovering for their second workout. None of the "sprint team" from track even joined the swim club across the street. I have no doubt we'd have been excellent swimmers, but for whatever reason collectively the parents of the sprint track athletes were quite happy for us to compete for free on the school team versus having to pay $$$$ to join the top tier national caliber swim program across the street.

I do think the latter is part of the problem. At least here in Canada, high school teams are very inexpensive. Club programs are big $$$$. Really no school teams on the swimming front.
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
Is the consistent theme globally a question of economic access? For example in much of the developing world, poor people cannot access swimming, because places that have pools are for rich people. What are the challenges you see in Australia, Vietnam or Thailand?


..
Here is a bit of a ramble but at least Dev,I know you are interested in stuff like this..
.
In Thailand there are few challenges in finding pools to train in and routes to ride (traffic excepted) and the triathlon/cycling base is huge.It surprises the shit out of me when I literally see hundreds of cyclist ride through the village I am in every afternoon sitting on high end bikes.I am the only bastard I know in Thailand who actually bought a cheap ass Chinese bike.

One of the Thai Princesses is a cyclist and triathlete and the Royal Family make a point of supporting cycling throughout the Kingdom.The Thai Navy hosts an Ironman series of races now with five held last season including support races.99% of the competitors are Thai with a crowd that Ironman would envy. Cost does not seem to be an issue.There is also a couple of other race series held every years .plus the Ironman 70.3,Laguna Phuket and the ITU crowd hosting the Thai federation the ITU Asia Cup Sprint and all the international team camps in our village.I spend a bit of time with the National Team at their headquarters and the gear they have is staggering.The athletes live like Monks but have all the nice gear now.Most are ex or serving military.

I also know a few guys who host open water swim training sessions and believe it or not open water swimming is a thing over there with their Oceanman race and other open water swim events..
https://oceanman-openwater.com/...oceanman-krabi-2020/


Vinnie Santana who posts here is an Iron Guides coach in Bangkok and hosts camps in Hua Hin not too far from Bangkok.He could fill you in a little more about swimming as well as he is the open water stud these days.. Of course we know about Jurgen in Phuket but he is the high end of the scale.

Vietnam is also booming but I don't know the particulars of the training facilities.I do know that local participation in the Ironman 70.3 has gone from a couple of hundred a couple of years ago to about 1,000 locals who raced last May.The Challenge Vietnam race is the same.

If we are talking about pool access for all then Australia just has to be the best in the world.It seems like every second tiny town I go to or research for my bike tours has a community pool.A lot of the community facilities were put in specifically for the local Aboriginal communities to have access to sport and some modern facilities.I have had some hilarious experiences with little Aboriginal kids in outback towns as they run amok while I try to get some laps in.For most Aboriginal kids in Oz,Aussie Rules football and Rugby League are the sports they are interested in with Cricket up there as well.

Triathlon in Oz in expensive like in the USA and Canada so there is that block but the government is trying to remedy all of that in all sports in Oz.Actually there was a big push just last month and here is a link to the info.You will see triathlon represented .Also linked is the push to re-establish traditional Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island Sports into outback communities.

https://www.sportaus.gov.au/yulunga

https://ais.gov.au/...-with-elite-athletes

..
You may have seen my Facebook post today of one of my trips to Mexico for the UltraMX515.Now this race takes place in Fresnillo in Zacatecas and is not a tourist destination for non Mexicans at all.In fact,Fresnillo is a rough, mining town and the race security are dressed for battle like most cartel towns but I love all that shit so I felt right at home.

Again,I was staggered at the high end gear everyone had and again I had the cheapest equipment.I stayed with the race directors family for two weeks and then the host hotel for a week and during that time I only met one other person who was a native English speaker (apart from my two Aussie mates who actually work in the local Silver mine but that is another story).Very few spoke any English at all. These Mexican triathletes are mad keen for the sport and train like bloody demons with all the good gear.

Here I am,sunburnt as all hell at the awards ceremony for the UltraMX515,the only non Latin American in the room...
.

Last edited by: ThailandUltras: Jun 13, 20 7:23
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThailandUltras wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Is the consistent theme globally a question of economic access? For example in much of the developing world, poor people cannot access swimming, because places that have pools are for rich people. What are the challenges you see in Australia, Vietnam or Thailand?


..
Here is a bit of a ramble but at least Dev,I know you are interested in stuff like this..
.
In Thailand there are few challenges in finding pools to train in and routes to ride (traffic excepted) and the triathlon/cycling base is huge.It surprises the shit out of me when I literally see hundreds of cyclist ride through the village I am in every afternoon sitting on high end bikes.I am the only bastard I know in Thailand who actually bought a cheap ass Chinese bike.

One of the Thai Princesses is a cyclist and triathlete and the Royal Family make a point of supporting cycling throughout the Kingdom.The Thai Navy hosts an Ironman series of races now with five held last season including support races.99% of the competitors are Thai with a crowd that Ironman would envy. Cost does not seem to be an issue.There is also a couple of other race series held every years .plus the Ironman 70.3,Laguna Phuket and the ITU crowd hosting the Thai federation the ITU Asia Cup Sprint and all the international team camps in our village.I spend a bit of time with the National Team at their headquarters and the gear they have is staggering.The athletes live like Monks but have all the nice gear now.Most are ex or serving military.

I also know a few guys who host open water swim training sessions and believe it or not open water swimming is a thing over there with their Oceanman race and other open water swim events..
https://oceanman-openwater.com/...oceanman-krabi-2020/


Vinnie Santana who posts here is an Iron Guides coach in Bangkok and hosts camps in Hua Hin not too far from Bangkok.He could fill you in a little more about swimming as well as he is the open water stud these days.. Of course we know about Jurgen in Phuket but he is the high end of the scale.

Vietnam is also booming but I don't know the particulars of the training facilities.I do know that local participation in the Ironman 70.3 has gone from a couple of hundred a couple of years ago to about 1,000 locals who raced last May.The Challenge Vietnam race is the same.

If we are talking about pool access for all then Australia just has to be the best in the world.It seems like every second tiny town I go to or research for my bike tours has a community pool.A lot of the community facilities were put in specifically for the local Aboriginal communities to have access to sport and some modern facilities.I have had some hilarious experiences with little Aboriginal kids in outback towns as they run amok while I try to get some laps in.For most Aboriginal kids in Oz,Aussie Rules football and Rugby League are the sports they are interested in with Cricket up there as well.

Triathlon in Oz in expensive like in the USA and Canada so there is that block but the government is trying to remedy all of that in all sports in Oz.Actually there was a big push just last month and here is a link to the info.You will see triathlon represented .Also linked is the push to re-establish traditional Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island Sports into outback communities.

https://www.sportaus.gov.au/yulunga

https://ais.gov.au/...-with-elite-athletes

..
You may have seen my Facebook post today of one of my trips to Mexico for the UltraMX515.Now this race takes place in Fresnillo in Zacatecas and is not a tourist destination for non Mexicans at all.In fact,Fresnillo is a rough, mining town and the race security are dressed for battle like most cartel towns but I love all that shit so I felt right at home.

Again,I was staggered at the high end gear everyone had and again I had the cheapest equipment.I stayed with the race directors family for two weeks and then the host hotel for a week and during that time I only met one other person who was a native English speaker (apart from my two Aussie mates who actually work in the local Silver mine but that is another story).Very few spoke any English at all. These Mexican triathletes are mad keen for the sport and train like bloody demons with all the good gear.

Here I am,sunburnt as all hell at the awards ceremony for the UltraMX515,the only non Latin American in the room...
.


the thing about triathlon in mexico, i've been racing there for 30 years and it tends to be a more elite income sport there than in the U.S. when i, an american, would travel to mexico to race, i would say i was one of the poorer athletes entered. a lot of the really good athletes back then, the pros, were also poor-to-average (like me). i knew a lot of them because when they came to the U.S. they live on my couch, or in my spare bedroom. (long list of up-and-coming mexican and brazilian pros living on my couch). but the bulk of the field in a mexican race were much, much wealthier than i was.

this has changed a bit, because the sport has gotten much bigger in mexico since those days (due largely to the astute race management of triathlon in mexico by jaime cadaval). that has meant the mean net worth of the average mexican triathlete is a bit lower. but it's still somewhat the sport of kings.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Last edited by: Slowman: Jun 13, 20 7:38
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [newtryguy101] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Great read. I appreciate the author calls out white supremacy for what it is and how it manifests in so many ways - it permeates and is equally passive and active. Us with privilege need to be willing to give up our power in order to make change.

80/20 Endurance Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
Is the consistent theme globally a question of economic access? For example in much of the developing world, poor people cannot access swimming, because places that have pools are for rich people. What are the challenges you see in Australia, Vietnam or Thailand?

In Australia swimming is quite accessible to most people, regardless of race. I live in a regional town with a higher than average percentage of indigenous people. We have multiple free swimming facilities.

The main challenge to participation is cost. Between equipment costs, entry fees, travel costs, participation in triathlon is extremely prohibitive.
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [TIT] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Would a factor affecting African American participation be the likelyhood of being able to generate an income from the sport? They see the basketball, NFL, baseball, tennis and golf stars all making millions.

If you come from a position of financial disadvantage why would you waste your talent on triathlon when you have the chance of making it in a sport that has a much higher chance of changing your life?

If cost is the limiting factor in participation then this isn't a race (or racism) factor so much as all races of financial disadvantage would be impacted (white included) and prevented from participating?
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [dunno] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dunno wrote:
Would a factor affecting African American participation be the likelyhood of being able to generate an income from the sport? They see the basketball, NFL, baseball, tennis and golf stars all making millions.

If you come from a position of financial disadvantage why would you waste your talent on triathlon when you have the chance of making it in a sport that has a much higher chance of changing your life?

If cost is the limiting factor in participation then this isn't a race (or racism) factor so much as all races of financial disadvantage would be impacted (white included) and prevented from participating?

Triathlon has a high cost of entry and a low ROI. Professional triathletes aren't making LeBron, KD, or Steph money. It's a hard selling point for our youth, when Sportscenter and TV advertisements keep glorifying money ball sports like football, basketball, and baseball. Why shine a light on a less lucrative, but expensive olympic sport like triathlon? Kids don't see it as being cool as a result.
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
I remember an incident from the awards ceremony at the St. Croix half IM tri in 2013

There were not enough chairs on the beach where it was being held. I noticed the first floor porches of the hotel where it was at had extra chairs on each porch, so I asked the hotel manager if we could move some. He said, "sure, go ahead".

So I went over, grabbed a bunch of chairs and brought them over for my friends. I then went back and got a second round for our group,

Another athlete, (white guy) stopped me and said, "Hey, can you bring me some chairs". I said, "Sure, but you can go and get your own". He replied, "I asked you to get me some chairs", I said, "I heard you, but you can get your own, I am sorry, I am not getting you your chairs". He said, "I don't think you understand I asked you to get me some chairs". I said, "I got it, but get your own".

Later, I went and got my Kona slot (yeah). The same guy came up and said, "Oh my god, I am soooooo sorry, I did not realize you were an athlete". I said, "Its OK, I know exactly what was in your head and that's what matters and its OK that you assumed that with my dark skin, that I must be a hotel worker and probably not an athlete....that's more a failing of the society we live in, than you being a mean person. Don't worry, but you learned that not all athletes look the same".

Anyway, in North America and Europe, its been mainly all white athletes since I joined the sport in 1985. Most of us doing the sport, don't need to have people of all colours there to keep doing it, because we enjoy the sport and largely everyone around us is very nice and accommodating. The problem is to get to the start line. Almost no one is keeping us out of the sport once we are in. I really enjoyed racing at the 70.3 in Dubai recently with all colours of athletes from around the world (albeit, rich guys from all over the world....there you guy, the price off entry was economic status)

Even if you were a hotel employee that guy sucks.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
newtryguy101 wrote:
Clearly something top of mind and I personally have been thinking about this more and more. I read this article on Medium last night that I thought helped highlight and articulate some of my thoughts better than I could. Wanted to post it here to hopefully drive some more discussion about how to drive more inclusion in the sport (esp given the Ironman, Slowtwitch references) etc.

https://medium.com/...thletes-94276a8778fd


i can't answer for the other magazines. but i can certainly answer for this one.

we have 2 opinion pieces about this. they've been written for a week. one by me. another by another member of our editorial staff. they're not published yet. why?

because, what has been our habit is to just do the work. year in, year out. write about people of color. black triathletes specifically. shine a light on them. celebrate them. talk about the successes, and the challenges. i'm not going to link to all the articles, to prove our virtue. anyone who's interested in what we've written can find them.

my concern - and maybe i'm right, maybe i'm wrong - is that a lot of people are going to show their support for what is going on over the last 2 weeks, through their opinion pieces. and then... what? demonstrating our virtue when we're inoculated by blowback, because we're riding the tailwind of public opinion, doesn't sit well with me. the author of that article notes that 1 percent of triathletes are black. writing a piece on the murder or george floyd will solve that 1 percent problem how?

what the author of that piece probably doesn't know is that much of the editorial staff here has been involved - for years, not days or weeks - in this question of how to make triathlon more inviting, accessible, affordable, not only to black triathletes, but black business owners in triathlon. several of us were on a conference call with USA Triathlon yesterday, such standing calls taking place either weekly, twice monthly, or twice weekly depending on the season. this has been the case for years, not days or weeks.

there are two issues the author of that piece talks about, and the solutions to each aren't connected. one is the issue animating us today: entrenched police behaviors and protections that disproportionately affect people of color; as well as the broader issues that cause black people to interact more with police is fair or just. the second issue is diversity in triathlon. the only connecting strand between these is the facepalming running-while-black issue - and this doesn't center around the police and george floyd but ahmaud arbery. i've been phone tagging with the president of a prominent black male runners association since the end of last week on this. it infuriates me that a black man would feel in any peril simply through the process of going on a run.

my instinct, and my behavior thus far, has been to not write the pieces that make me feel good, display our virtue, that show we're on the right side of history. rather it's just to do the work. in 6 months, to still do the work. in 3 years, to still do the work. the men's running org to which i referred has a saying: "we are all we've got." this is a problem. this isn't their problem to fix. it's our problem. it's my problem. they should not feel alone in this. rather than writing a we-stand-in-solidarity piece, my instinct is to interview the black men comprising that org and find out what we can do to make them feel that they only have each other.

the diversity problem, however, is more associated with the swim. black kids between 5 and 15 years old are about 5 times more likely to drown than white kids. i've been in a fight with my own city for the last 2 years over a specific outreach to the black community, not to hold swim lessons when it's convenient for the city, but when it's convenient for the black citizens who live there. they pay taxes to upkeep our pools, but they don't enjoy the benefit of them. waking up one future day and finding that your race has more black triathletes begins with waking up today and asking yourself what you're doing to change the trajectory of this. if you decide this is something you want to do, you're going to find that the only thing approaching the citywide roadbloacks to changing bad police behavior is the intransigence in those same cities to fixing aquatic illiteracy among underserved populations.

nevertheless, we have still written these 2 OpEds. mostly i wrote mine for myself, because i'm madder than i can tell you about what is going on today. but if you want more diversity in our sport, it starts with difficult, arduous, thankless pipeline work that an opinion piece isn't going to solve.

I'm so glad I read your post. I'm struggling with what to "do" as well. In addition to all of the ultra current, current, and recently current events, I've always felt - since I started the sport in 2006 - that the sport is not inclusive. Not inclusive, is too expensive, has a slightly unhealthy mental health aspect, and, ever since I aged up from 35-39 to 40-44, contracting/shrinking/dying and getting older and older.

I think that, rather than blacking out our IG pages or the like, we should actively try to a) replace ourselves, b) attract young kids to the sport and c) attract POC to the sport. We should also remove barriers and make it easier for POC and kids to join the sport.

I'm thinking on how I can do those things... actively recruiting kids and POC seems simple but hard to me. Removing barriers is a more complex issue and one that I'm pondering more.

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThailandUltras wrote:
I really wish people would be more specific when they post these articles because what is happening in the USA is not that same as what is happening in all of "Our Sport " globally..

yes, this is certainly an "American" problem...

narcissism
mental health
selfishness

Is this how you see it?

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericMPro wrote:
ThailandUltras wrote:
I really wish people would be more specific when they post these articles because what is happening in the USA is not that same as what is happening in all of "Our Sport " globally..


yes, this is certainly an "American" problem...

narcissism
mental health
selfishness

Is this how you see it?
..
No, what I see is diversity in triathlon outside of the USA and that is what we are talking about. How hard is that to understand?
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericMPro wrote:
ThailandUltras wrote:
I really wish people would be more specific when they post these articles because what is happening in the USA is not that same as what is happening in all of "Our Sport " globally..


yes, this is certainly an "American" problem...

narcissism
mental health
selfishness

Is this how you see it?

You may be projecting what you see in triathlon to everyone, but here is an example from shecantri.org who sought our women from Afghanistan to take on our sport:

https://shecantri.org/dubai-training

Kudos to Jackie Faye for driving this. I don't see any narcissistic, mental health of selfish angle (I suppose there is selfishness even in Mother Theresa in some ways so we never escape that).
Quote Reply
Re: Race in Our Sport [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Really interesting to hear an "insider" perspective and glad to hear you and other are DOING things rather than just saying/posting what people want to hear.

I think attracting adults from diverse backgrounds, as you mentioned, should also be considered. From my perspective of living in downtown Chicago, I see a ton of diversity in runners and I am sure some of those people could be brought into the fold of tri. I've personally had a handful of POC ask me how they can get started in tri when they see me commuting with a swim bag or when i'm out training. If I have learned one thing from ST, it's that tri is a sport a lot of us find later in life vs. as children. I think getting more adults from diverse backgrounds can also help create a better pipeline and communication through to young people, who may otherwise not want to jump into a sport where they would otherwise stick out.

Getting more people to swim is definitely a great way to lower the barrier to entry. But, in my [limited] experience getting friends into the sport, the bike can also be a material hurdle. The bike can be difficult from from the obvious cost perspective and how complicated maintaining a bike can be for a newbie. Not to mention that some bike shops can really take the "shopping while black" experience to a whole new level.
Quote Reply

Prev Next