It also helps at turn buoys when everybody climbs onto your back.

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For sprinters , I like hypoxic-type sets like you describe. But not for the reasons given in the OP. More for acclimatization rather than adaptation, if that makes sense.

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Jason, I think it was you or someone on the fish threads who said that after the wall push off and when you come to the surface to take a few strokes before the first breath as it helps sustain the wall push of speed. I suppose the hypoxic sets may help with this?

So I can see a psychological benefit maybe if you were a sprinter or for certain situations in tris where for whatever reason you cant take a breath at the time you want to, like waves breaking in your face, being kicked or swam over, etc. But the question to me is whether there is a physiological adaptation that is made. That is the part I question. If there is not a physiological adaption I wonder why you would work on this any more than occasionally. Our tri club coach has us do it at least every 3rd or 4th workout.

I hold my breath all the time when running to condition my body to use oxygen more efficiently. Yeah, that sounds dumb to me, too.

Psychological factors matter a lot, the more you do it the more comfortable you are doing it. Training is only partially physiological in my view.

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Great question.
when learning to swim at any age, the most critical aspect of one's performance is breathing.
"im a super fit guy i can run marathons! but man, after 2 lengths of the pool, IM GASSED!!!" you hear this all the time. So from beginner to advanced, in fact just released video of Michael Andrew after the Mesa event these past few days, he talks about the critical importance of breath and breathing. Go check it out at swimswam.com
Many times on this site ive reported the importance of this and have been working on it with athletes of all ability levels for decades. Breathing is an ATHLETIC SKILL that requires education and deliberate specific practice ON LAND so that then, in the water it can be utilized.

Do we adapt physiologically to reduced O2 and increase CO in our system? yes. of course. That is why people live and train at altitude. And when someone goes to altitude to train they cannot just go like hell when they first arrive and need to acclimate to those changes allowing the body to catch up (physiologically with increased red blood cell production and a few others)
I hope that answers your question. Yes, there is a use for breath holding in our training in the water and on land. However, specifically if you're only doing this work ONLY occasionally and ONLY when you are in the water, that adaptation is not going to happen.

In a nutshell, we are awful at breathing, even on land. We have become "over-breathing-mouth-breathers" from a variety of reasons.
To make your swimming "breath work" more rewarding, I would suggest learning about proper methods to reduce O2 and increase your CO levels and practice that on land (whether you live at sea-level or not) and incorporate that into practice when you are rested and NOT in the water. Then work on those exercises on land when you are in fact, exercising at a low load. And then progress to working on that in the pool. Or if you manage the first two, when you get into the pool it won't seem do debilitating (or scary). Good Luck.

Lastly, as touched on...for the aquatic performance front, there are two moments in which we carry more velocity than we ever could actually swimming... and one of those is when you push off in a streamline position. So, yes, if you have an effective first few strokes (maybe a cycle and a half or more) without a breath movement to slow you down, you can set in a faster tempo that will have less rate of decay than coming off the walls gasping for air and having to restart (from having lost that "free-ish" velocity) One of many reasons that triathletes should flip turn! :)
daved

Yes, there is a physiological adaption that occurs.

Look up apnea tables/exercises for freedivers. All sorts of info to get you started.

And yes there are benefits to triathletes

The demands of freediving are substantially different from competitive swimming though.

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OK to follow your logic, why isnt every athlete doing this? I get your point about training at altitude, that is a very sustained shortage of oxygen over days and weeks that creates change. To follow your logic if you could really make gains doing breathing drills why aren't we all doing this all the time? I could be wrong but I don't think I have ever heard a cycling or track coach address this once. My original question is are there any studies that have shown that you can do breathing exercises that ultimately lead to measurable adaptation?

For me personally, I flip turn, I am pretty ambidextrous as far as bilateral breathing, and I typically breath every 3rd or 2/3 when racing at OLY distance or longer pace. Only in pool sprints do I breath every stroke. I have no anxiety about missing a breath, etc. So I don't think psychologically for me personally I need to train for this very frequently unless there is evidence it works. It is a good occasional reminder that you may be not breathing for a stroke or 2 but that is it.

For a swim sprinter or free diver I get it, but not so much for the demands of a triathlete.

the demands of running around a track
or
doing a TT or TTT on the bike
or
doing a crit race
or or or...
sigh
ARE substantially different in many ways. Absolutely.
But aspects of certain athletic endeavors can help us in the specific sport in which we are doing Jason. Like riding in a group, or running at paces you normally wouldn't during a tri etc etc

Im not trying to be a jerk at all, and I know you are a super swimmer and try to help people here. But that response isn't all that helpful

The way freedivers work on breathing, learn about safe breath holds, understand the physiology AND psychology behind challenging our respiratory systems is absolutely applicable to the OPs original question.
And from earlier convos between us, where I told you to work on your exhale when you are swimming, I'm aware you do not just wholly accept this as an issue with aquatic performance ... but it certainly is one. And this op asked a great question.

daved

The short answer:
To the best of my knowledge, no, there is no scientific evidence that hypoxic drills will make you faster as a distance swimmer.

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Yes, and a resounding no.

The ability to tolerate higher levels of CO2, plus more red blood cells, and a host of other things cross over both sports. A very vasuc way to get it is think if breath hold as mini altitude training

All great freediver also do a TON of cardio work because it benefits their diving.

The two disciplines have much more in common than you think.

More great questions.
Why aren't we all working on this? I wish I knew. Are there studies about respiration rates, co levels , o2 levels specifically in athletics.. yes. Im sure with the google they would be easy enough to find.
Journal of sports physio and many others study this and have studied this for a while.
But some elites are working on it. In various ways. Recently at mens NCAA swimming champs I saw teams using KAATSU machines (as has Michael Andrew and others) to restrict bloodflow increase CO levels in specific body parts... all to aid both adaptation and recovery.

When I work with clients we discuss and play with breathing. Just to experience it, the impact it can have on the body and brain and then develop individual plans for them become more athletic breathers. In no way shape or form is this the BE ALL END ALL. This is an aspect, however, that I think, is critical. In my time working with elite athletes (gold medalist swimmers and oly level triathletes) we did do some of this. And one of the key take aways, I think, is that they (and their coaches) were OPEN TO IT. They asked questions. They listened. They tried and they took what worked for them and moved on. In that process we all became more educated as to what works and what doesn't.

So for your last statement about the demands of a triathlete don't really fit... i strongly disagree. In fact, for the continued health of our athletes AND our sport I would say its HYPERCRITICAL. Didn't we just have a venue change (and potential cancellation of the swim in oceanside??) Race Dirs are constantly struggling with WETSUIT OR NOT, waves too much? Current too strong? and the swim is the part that always gets changed or worse cancelled. Additionally, people think tri swimming is dangerous bc that is when people die. Well, yeah... they go from standing on a beach and breathing, even at an excited level, SIGNIFICANTLY slower than when they sprint into the water and then hyperventilate breathing (a full inhale and exhale, presumably) about every 1.5 seconds!
Yeah.. "breath control" is critical and it means SO MUCH MORE than just breathing every 3 strokes or 5. Breath control is a practice and an athletic skill, and triathletes are, well, athletes.

Thanks for the discussion.
daved

Our tri club coach has us do a lot of drills where we dont breath for certain periods, like do laps where you breath every 3 strokes, then 5 strokes, then 7 strokes. //

I would say doing those types of drills are fine, and you are wrong in that just about every team I swam on did those, but sparingly. As to getting some response, of course you do. Any sort of swimming while you have a high HR is getting some response. And you will find that if you really practice no breathers a lot, they become easier and you get faster at them. If you are going further and faster, something is responding, No?


Of course you have to slow down a bit on sets and/or distance stuff when you do breath control, that is why sprinters in the 100 breath every stroke now in races. It taxes your respiratory system to hold your breath, but it also may have the added benefit of letting you concentrate more on your stroke and any balance issues you may have. A lot of people tend to drop their opposite arm when breathing, these drills help you first notice, then correct that flaw.


Of all the things coaches have swimmers do that is not just plain hard swimming, this is way down on the list of things to be concerned about..

I probably would accept it if there was a study that said that hypoxic drills will make you faster in any endurance sport, running, cycling, nordic skiing, rowing, etc. My guess is there is no evidence, we just keep repeating it because it is part of an entire workout series that works, but no one has ever really looked closely at all the pieces. AKA Superstitious behavior.

how could it?
from a percentage basis, even the most elite of elite swimmers, dont spend enough time IN the water to create those adaptations. Thats why they go to altitude.
But there are breathing techniques to create an altitude like reaction in your body and that is done on DRYLAND with LOW hrs.
And there are many studies and practices on that.

daved

I've not read through all of the responses, but I would like to put forward another benefit. Open water (as many tri races are) are unpredictable; other people, chop etc. One benefit of doing drills like this is that come race day, if you are used to solely breathing every 2 (for example) and you come to take your scheduled breath, any number of factors may prevent you from doing so; being hit, water being too choppy etc. By having practised breathing every 3/5/7+ you are less likely to panic in these situations, yes your lungs may start to hurt etc, but it is no longer a new sensation. I believe that this is potentially the biggest benefit to weaker swimmers who are less likely to have been in these situations before (in a pool or open water) and the panic that may ensue could have a large impact on swim times.

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