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Question for forum regarding race refunds
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OK. I typically am good with these kinds of things, but this bothered me. I was supposed to race this weekend in Virginia, at the Sandman Triathlon in Virginia Beach. Due to the hurricane situation, I have been advised to stay home as an Emergency has been declaired for Virginia beach area. I live in Philadelphia, PA (6+hours drive). Anyway, official determination of the course will not be made public until Saturday.

So I notified the race director and informed him of my situation. I did not ask for a refund. I did not ask to give my already paid for race # to someone else. I simply asked that he waive my registration fee for next years event. I got an e-mail back saying that this was not possible because "expenses have incurred due to the total # of participants." The event is not till SUnday. So what does this mean? He's telling me I'm out $75? That's not cool...at all. Is that $75 in his pocket?

Does this seem fair? It would be different if I lived locally, but I am over 6 hours away. Do you think it is too much to ask for a waver for next seasons race?
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Re: Question for forum regarding race refunds [Graz] [ In reply to ]
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He's likely out most of that $75. When you entered he ordered one more t-shirt, 1/200th of a porta potty, 2 more bike bottles, police support, race permits, life guards, banners, drink cups, bib#'s, etc. Those are cost he cannot recoup. At some larger races there may not be a problem (other than the administrative nightmare) to have someone else step into that spot and then track the fact that he owes you an entry into next year's event. Put yourself in their shoes, or better yet, volunteer on the staff putting on a large (700+ athlete) event. Work a "simple" 10K and you'll quickly understand this issue from the other side.

Does it suck to eat the $75? You betcha. But he shouldn't eat the $75 just because he's the RD. Otherwise he may not be race directing next year and instead getting a desk job to pay off the tab from this year. Anyway, that's my 2cents. Sorry you're not able to race. It sucks to be all fit and ready to go only to have something out of one's control take the day away.
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Just read this [ In reply to ]
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Weather Update - Isabelle
Triathletes and volunteers:
The decision has been made to postpone the Sandman Triathlon, scheduled for September 21st, for safety reasons. Sandman has been re-scheduled for Sunday, October 12th. We hope you that you will be able to join us.
The decision was based on the pending arrival of Hurricane Isabel. The current track will have the hurricane coming on shore close to the southeast part of Virginia. This will result in high winds and heavy rains to the Virginia Beach area. The hurricane will probably cause heavy flooding and loss of power. The hurricane will greatly impact the police, fire, emergency and city services. These departments would not be able to support the triathlon in the manner that we need to put on a safe and quality race.
We understand that many of you will be inconvenienced by this decision. Please keep in mind that the safety of the triathletes, the citizens of Virginia Beach and the Hampton Roads area are our main concern.
We will contact you in a few weeks concerning the Sandman Triathlon. Thank you for your understanding.
Take good care,
Brian Sagedy
Race Director
Sandman Triathlon


"The more you sweat today, the less you bleed tomorrow"
Last edited by: Mark C: Sep 17, 03 9:22
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Re: Question for forum regarding race refunds [Mark C] [ In reply to ]
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Where is the race course located? I live in coastal NW Florida and we have a popular local tri here that has been impacted several times due to hurricanes and tropical storms. Anything from road damage to trees/powerlines down, to total devastation. Even a strong Cat 2/weak Cat 3 hitting a coastal area can cause significant damage. Add to that the fact that VaBch looks like it may get hit by the NE quadrant of the storm where the worst winds are, plus you have to add the forward speed of the storm to the sustained winds to get true wind speed. Good luck from someone who has been thru it.
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Re: Question for forum regarding race refunds [Graz] [ In reply to ]
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I vote in favor of the Race Director on this one. Race Directors frequently incur substantial cost and hardship in producing the events we participate in. Based on my peripheral expereince as a race sponsor and volunteer I see the people who produce quality events (and even bad ones) put a lot of money, time and effort into the race. The cash is almost always spent before the race. I have blown over $1000 on entry fees for events I couldn't for one reason or another over the last few years. I never ask for a refund. Given, all these circumstances were my own making, but the point is I hope participants will become increasngly empathetic to race directors and their (often) selfless contribution to the sport. When a race director does turn a profit, even a healthy one, producing an event I give them a resounding "Good job! See you again next year." Good races, even ones cancelled due to an "Act of God" (hurricanes, floods, power outages, war, terrorism, etc.) cost money. It is the price we have to pay, even when it isn't fun. It is a shame to miss a race though.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Question for forum regarding race refunds [cmetri] [ In reply to ]
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Another vote for the RD.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Mr. Sagedy [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. I just got back from my lunchtime swim. I'll end up eating the $75 this season. October 10th is a no go. :-(

I did not mean to place a negative tone on the race director. I have done this race in the past and must admit that it is such a well run race. A race fee is not a big deal in the grand scheme of it all. Mr. Sagedy has been kind and responsive to my inquireis. Past events have been organized and safe.

Honestly, I don't know what's all involved in directing the race. I am sure it is stressful. At least I got my hotel deposit back.

BTW - If I go, I will take first in age group 25-29. Then maybe next season, I'll be good enough to run with the open guys. :-)

Thanks for the feedback.

F G
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Re: Question for forum regarding race refunds [Graz] [ In reply to ]
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Let's say you send $2000 a frame builder for a custom frame. He spends money buying tubes, pays his employees to cut, weld and finish the frame. The night before he's going to send it out to you, a hurricane destroys his warehouse. "Your" frame is a total loss. What would you say when he calls to tell you he's keeping your 2 grand "to cover the costs he incurred" and you're not getting your frame?

At some point, the risk of loss shifts from the seller to the buyer. Frames are certainly different from races and I can't tell you when that should happen with a race (the morning of the race? when the gun goes off? when you finish?) but I don't think its a week before race day.



________________________________________________

Anyone who tells you they're as fast now as they were when they were 18...
sure wasn't very fast when they were 18.
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Re: Question for forum regarding race refunds [tri_bri2] [ In reply to ]
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I'm in NW Florida as well. The best time of the year for racing here coincides with the peak of Atlantic hurricane season. It's just the way it is, and que sera sera. So you know going in that storms may cause the alteration or cancellation of races. Better for each racer to take the entry fee hit than have the RD stuck with a $50x300 liability situation, which is a quick way to significantly decrease the number of local RDs.

And at least there is an option to reschedule for some people. Last year, they lost half the bike course for Santa Rosa Island sprint when TS Isidore came through two days before the race and demolished part of the coast road, and the Sandman Tri (Gulf Shores, AL) got cancelled altogether with no reschedule option because another tropical storm was too intense on race day. (And we will race in tropical storm feeder bands here if the thunder is holding off and the swim looks like it will be reasonably safe) I think Sandman offered $10 off this year's race for those who had entered last year's cancelled race.
Last edited by: FLA Jill: Sep 17, 03 12:59
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Re: Question for forum regarding race refunds [FLA Jill] [ In reply to ]
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Ah yes, brings up (not so) fond memories of Demoman 2001, swimming and riding thru lashing wind and rain! Are you doing SRI? If so, good luck and I'll probably see you there. I am in the 45-49 AG and am riding an Airborne Spectre w/Spinergy Xaero wheels. Hope to finish around 1:30 this year if the wind cooperates.
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Re: Question for forum regarding race refunds [tri_bri2] [ In reply to ]
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Yep. SRI last year was my second race, and I'm back this year, hopefully for the full bike course. Under 40 Athenas, 2003 Cervelo One, and hoping for 1:45ish.

Good luck to you too!
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Re: Question for forum regarding race refunds [Rich] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say "what's the phone number of your insurance company?" Your analogy might happen, but most reputable businesses have insurance to cover such an occurrance. This very thing happened to me when my former dry cleaner went up in smoke. I went to pick up my shirts and was greeted with a charred shell of a building and a sign that stated that any persons who had clothing left at said cleaners when it burned should call the insurance company. The insurance company wase very responsive and reimbursed me a fair amount for my shirts.

A possibility for a solution to people having to "eat" race registration fees would be to acquire insurance that would be used to reimburse reg fees to participants in case of "acts of god." Of course this would probably INCREASE costs, but would give peace of mind to people who have been affected this year and years to come. I personally hate paying insurance premiums, but that feeling goes out the window when the coverage is needed.


Sean
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