That's it. You wanna go??

Hey,

It seems the posting has been different since the format change. You are probably right about the time of year.



Brian

The quality of posts has dramatically decreased since the board change, plus it doesnt help that a certain "performance enhancing pedalling device" is brought up (not naming names) in a new post nearly every day on the board, way too much corporate fluff around here.

Thinking of getting a "breakaway" board going dedicated to bike leg of Triathlon, TT's, lots of aero info, and good training info. This board is 90% bike anyhow.

ya my wife was looking over my shoulder and reading some of the post, laughed at me and wanted to know why all the boys (including me) on the web are getting all tore up about this stuff . i don't think she minds me spending time reading the good informative stuff but the debates get to her. guess it's that testosterone thing-muddles the mind

I tend to agree re: corporate fluff. A similar thing happened some time ago on Trinewbies.com...people were up in arms about all the nonsense re: a certain assistive pedaling device.

Also agree with the psycho poster stuff...although I prefer to refer to them as "trolls" (which is all usenet has been for years now, and the reason I quit reading newsgroups). People just throw stuff out there that they know will get a rise out of others. Don't fall for it. Let's not let this board head in a bad direction. I have read this board since I got into tri's and it has been invaluable to me. For a long time, it has been what seems to be among the very few decent discussion boards out there.

Note that Andy Coggan disappeared...what a fantastic resource to have lost! A real, live sports physiologist who specializes in cycling issues. Instead, we have all we ever wanted to know about pedalling assitance devices. Hey, I'm not knocking them...I've never even seen a set! And I am sure that they work for some people. But what I am saying is that I think we all benefitted more from hearing about the science of training and science, etc, than we do from reams of posts from the manufacturer about the aforementioned product, some of which express pretty weak pseudoscience. (and that is NOT a troll to start warfare over said product!)

Contrast that with a guy like Gerard, who provides an incredible amount of information, most of which is objective, and whom I have NEVER felt was trying was trying to sell me anything at all. I hope that guys like him hang around.

Philbert

---

Dr. Philip Skiba
Scientific Training for Endurance Athletes now available on Amazon!

my sentiments exactly, Coggan was a great resource. Too bad this whole sit is now being used for indirect "pedalling device" advertising.

Another vote here for "I'm sick of hearig about that damn pedalling device." ESPECIALLY since I certainly got the impresion that there was a causal relationship between that poster's contributions to the site and the dissapearance of the esteemed Mr. Coggan.

The answer here is actually pretty simple: we, as a group, need to stop feeding the Trolls, and call "foul" when the blatantly commercial posts pop up. So, let me start -

If I want to hear the latest "All the other triathletes kicked sand in my face until I got Powercranks" story, I will go to the Powercranks home page. The " A new area of PC controversy, your thoughts ... " post was innapropriate, coming direct from a manufacturer, in my opinion.

MH

---

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Jaylew,

I agree with you, and generally I steer clear of those threads. I don't nessecarily have a problem with people discussing any product...hell, we have been over certain things like aero wheels a zillion times. I think our problem is more that people start threads to promote their particular product, and I'm not sure that is the purpose of a discussion board. It is basically free advertising. That last PC thread started by the manufacturer was just nonsense, on top of being inappropriate.

Philbert

---

Dr. Philip Skiba
Scientific Training for Endurance Athletes now available on Amazon!

I must admit that there are a lot of near-rants currently underway, but the thing I also notice is that there may be many people who view the post, but not many that actually reply to keep the post going. One thread has over 1000 views, but only 30 posts.

I think it shows that people are curious, but don't want to get involved with something that can get pretty mean pretty fast (attacking other postings etc.).

Anyway - many thanks to the posters that are honest, fair, educated, rational and to the point. I've been helped by many of the posts regarding bikes, fit, gears, wetsuits etc. and will continue to look for guidance through the forum here.

I don't mind many of the "odd posts" that generate spirited debate. I think it's fun and interesting to read the different opinions. What bothers me is when personal attacks or general rudeness start showing up. Wanting to legalize drafting is a vary legitimate (although controversial) position. I also think discussions about what constitutes "appropriate" use of various substances is in bounds. The problem is that these issues tend to get people going emotionally. (I know I can be easily baited on the topic of drafting.)

As for the "attack" on Cervelo's adds. I think the spirit of the thread was good (issues with marketing tactics) but it was introduced in a manner that unfairly singled out one manufacturer.

It's also obvious that people tire of the numerous threads about PowerCranks. I'm a PC owner, and I get a bit sick of them too. So often times if I see a new PC thread, I simply choose not to read it. I suggest others who are not interested in reading about PCs do the same. I do think it's poor form for a company representative to start threads that discuss their products solely for the sake of keeping discussions of their product alive. The only time I think a rep should start a post about one of their products is in the case of a recall or similar product issue.

One of the greatest things about this forum is that there are many posters/lurkers from different triathlon companies, shops, and coaching services. We should do our part to make sure they feel welcome and keep coming back, but they need to take some responsibility and not use this forum as a means for blatant marketing and direct selling. I think if you find a post or thread that you think crosses the line, politely point it out.

Let's just keep it civil.

I agree whole-heartedly with the "where's Coggan" line. I posted a request a few weeks ago for anyone with his email to ask him to come back. I didn't understand most of what he posted, but it was fun trying.

For that matter, where's Demerly been, still skiing?

Along the same lines, is it me or is traffic WAY UP on this site ever since the new forum design was implemented? It looks like there are many new posts every day, and the amount of views is staggering. I actually have slowed down my visits here for a couple of reasons: not enough time to keep up with the posts, and that the site loads slower now, and takes forever to be able to reply and post. And I am using a very fast connection, I can't imagine what it would be like for people on modems.

Just my 2 cents.

Mark

Too much time on their hands (like me....) and not good enough weather to go outside and work off their frustrations.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

The good Dr Coggan is to be found on www.topica.com - cycling- watts forum. Was over there lurking and some of the stuff is well over my head but made for interesting reading all the same. Watts and power are obviously the principal topic over there, not much talk of aero or PCs

---

__________________________________________________
Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??

Jaylew and Ferdly:

"How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is
To have a thankless child!"

Have either of you invented ANYTHING? Have either of you made any contribution to the storehouse of cycling knowledge, or in any other field? Maybe you have, maybe you haven't, but I'll bet if you had invented something as cool as Power Cranks and put a bundle of money on the line to produce and market them, then you'd be doing the same thing Frank Day is doing. Unlike Madison Avenue, Frank is not saying PCs will have your children, wash your laundry, make you smarter, prettier, or wealthier. His claims are fairly modest, particularly for the bike industry where every new part is marketed as though a Nobel Prize winner had just invented a device (especially wheels) to overcome the laws of physics.

Let's have a little tolerance, please, for these manufacturers who come onto Dan's site and give us information that is almost always very helpful. I'm surprised Demerly, Day, and Gerard keep coming back the way you guys hammer them! Sheezh.... Remember, some of these guys are paying to keep the site you are bitching on open.

Rant over.

-Robert

---

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

(snip) "Have either of you invented ANYTHING? "

Actually, yes, I have. I have designed both musical instruments and bicycle frames professionally, and have been involved in the marketing and sales of the aforementioned products. I have also been the sole proprietor of a manufacturing concern (musical instruments.) Yeehaw, good for me - but I fail to see how this has any effect on the validity (or lack thereof) of my previous comments.

Please note : I do not think anyone (and certainly not I ) is lumping Gerard or T. Demerly in with the "blatantly commercial" poster(s). They are both perfect examples (in my book) of how to maintain a responsible, respectful, yet commercial presence on the board.

MH

---

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Frank's claims of a multi-mph increase in speed are "modest"?? Get real - there's a better chance of overcoming the laws of physics than there is of achieving what he keeps claiming.

Ferdly and Anonymous:

I see neither of you have a name or an email address. It's easy to throw out trash but you guys obviously can't take it.

Frank puts his NAME up front. He stands behind his product and will give you your money back if you don't like the product.

Frank-10, F &A-0.

-Robert

---

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

(snip)Post: Ferdly and Anonymous:

I see neither of you have a name or an email address. It's easy to throw out trash but you guys obviously can't take it.

Frank puts his NAME up front. He stands behind his product and will give you your money back if you don't like the product.

Frank-10, F &A-0.

-Robert


WOW! now that's a scathing intellectual response - thank you for raising the bar on this discussion.

"Personalizing an intellectual argument is the last refuge of the weak minded, the poorly informed, or the insecure..."

and to think - the title of this whole thread is Psycho Posters...

By the way, it's "Fredly."

(And yes, I am completely ignoring the whole issue of anonymity - if the argument or point of view is valid, who cares where comes from?)


PS - I'm done on this topic; I've said my piece, and I don't want to get dragged into Robert's flame war any more than I already have.

---

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

looks like this thread is turning into a heated debate

"Ferdly and Anonymous:

I see neither of you have a name or an email address. It's easy to throw out trash but you guys obviously can't take it."

Where is *your* email address, "Robert"?

That's a legitimate gripe. I had it logged on the old site, but must not have logged it here. It's now up. Post yours.

-Robert

---

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank