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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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Jason80134 wrote:
jt10000 wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
What a remarkable excuse for denying the scope/impact of institutional racism and dismissing the need to do anything about it.


Someone here said that some commenters here would have been saying how wrong Martin Luther King Jr. Your post exemplifies that.



Bla, bla, bla. You are completely disconnected from reality and common sense.
Please fix your quotes. I never said any of the above.
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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Off topic:

A "Racist" is a person.

"Racism" is an institution.

Until people get that the white-male majority has had a 200+ year "head start" in accumulating wealth, power and privilege and the ability to regulate and legislate their place at the top of the heap, then it will not be understood why it is so hard to change the institution. People can preach all that they want that there is equality in opportunity and that everyone is created equal and even have the best intent to be inclusive. But that doesn't change the institution and mental models (stereotypes) that people have created.

On topic:

This is not a good approach at all to get your message out as a group. There are much better ways. But I would say that at this point, any exposure is what they are looking for, because nothing else seems to work.

(Spoken as a privileged white male who believes that enough is enough. It is time for the US to change the institution).

_____________________________________________
Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib
Last edited by: Daremo: Oct 1, 15 9:50
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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Runless wrote:
Hmmm, I bet JT10000 is one of the few people of color posting in this thread. So maybe his reality and common sense aren't disconnected, they are just different because of his different life experiences. Of course most white people can't even accept that different people have different life experiences.

The thing that drives me craziest about this thread is people who put their head in the sand completely. "racism doesn't exist" is the worst response.

I get that lots of people believe in some bootstrap ideals. But to deny racism and then victim blame is so unbelievably terrible, I'm at a loss.

By the way, Minnesota political leaders are agreeing to meet with BLM leaders. So to those who said "what could this accomplish?" It got them a seat at the table and someone to hear them out and that's the whole point of activism.

Racism is not the problem. People behaving like animals is the problem. Behaving like an animal will usually result in a violent confrontation with law enforcement. I fully support law enforcement.
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [LuchaLibre] [ In reply to ]
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LuchaLibre wrote:




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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:
Power13 wrote:
... but there was no justifiable defense in the killings of Eric Garner


You keep doing this, and you keep ignoring me when I point it out. Eric Garner was not "killed" by a cop, and certainly not intentionally. He was resisting arrest and died after the scuffle that ensued BECAUSE he was resisting arrest. His ill-health was likely a significant contributing factor also. And regardless of his alleged crime, no matter how petty you think it was, had he not resisted arrest, he would still be alive today.

And if you go about in public brandishing a gun, even a fake one that looks 100% real, then you have to expect some potentially serious consequences. Don't go about pointing guns in public, don't resist arrest.

As you can see from my earlier posts I'm not suggesting some changes in policing techniques would be unwarranted. But the examples being used to criticize the police are often bad ones. Now if Michael Slager is acquitted, then that would be a good example to use, but for now he's been charged with murder. And by the way, while I do not condone Slager's actions, if Walter Scott had not fled, he too would still be alive. Unfortunately part of the gun culture in the States makes it easier for police to justify shooting suspects sooner rather than later. Note police in the UK are not even armed. Cue gun control debate...

Have you actually watched the video of Garner's take down? He was engaged verbally with the cops and then BOOM, cop goes and physically takes him down. There was no physical threat from Garner and certainly nothing that warranted the use of lethal force. Nor does that change the fact that cop used a choke-hold, a move which is against NYPD policies.

Same for Tamir Rice....watch the video. shot the kid dead straight away. there was no need to fire on him, even if he had a real gun. kid was never even given a chance to put his "weapon" down.

As for Walter Scott, fleeing does not warrant lethal force, hence the reason Slager has been indicted for murder.

You seem to want to miss the point that the use and type of force used in these situations was unwarranted. It is not whether these victims were guilty, acted improperly or anything else. It is the fact that LEO's employed lethal force when it was not warranted or necessary.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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Jason80134 wrote:

Racism is not the problem. People behaving like animals is the problem. Behaving like an animal will usually result in a violent confrontation with law enforcement. I fully support law enforcement.

yes, you have made that abundantly clear. Frightening, really.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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Jason80134 wrote:
Racism is not the problem. People behaving like animals is the problem. Behaving like an animal will usually result in a violent confrontation with law enforcement. I fully support law enforcement.

The pain and rage caused by centuries of systematic oppresion may not fit into your idea of what it should look like.
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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You're the problem.
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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Runless wrote:
You're the problem.


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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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Jason80134 wrote:
Racism is not the problem. People behaving like animals is the problem. Behaving like an animal will usually result in a violent confrontation with law enforcement. I fully support law enforcement.

Yes!


Tamir Rice should have listened to the police in the less than two seconds he had and dropped his toy gun. And he should not have made the police fear for their lives by being outside with a toy gun (in a state in which it is legal for white men, I mean, all people, to carry real guns). Good 12-year-olds would be ready to drop their toy guns fast (but not too fast thought, since that would have made a tense situation even tenser). He was no angel. And his father or someone in his family had run-ins with the law too, so the killing is certainly justified. He was no angel.


And Amadou Diallo. He should have got his hands up in the split second before he was shot dead (but not too fast since that would have made a tense situation even tenser).


And John Crawford. WTF was he thinking picking up a BB gun in a store that sells BB guns and talking on his phone? He was no angel.


And he should not have made the police fear for their lives by being in a store that sells BB guns (in a state in which it is legal for white men, I mean, all people, to carry real guns) and actually picking it up. Asking for it.


And James Blake - well, he's not dead at least.


You know, James Blake is many ways a model black man. I'm not talking about going to Harvard and being a great athlete and so articulate. I mean that he took the beating so he didn't get killed. That's how those people should act.


Those people should learn from James Blake and stop acting like animals. If police jump you, just let them beat you. Stop resisting! Stop resisting!


If you don't obey police 100%, you should accept you might get beat up or shot dead, and if you do it's your fault. That's how it is and how it should be.


And take a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9fwe_NEerE


http://www.jt10000.com/
Last edited by: jt10000: Oct 1, 15 10:48
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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FindinFreestyle wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:

Racism is not the problem. People behaving like animals is the problem. Behaving like an animal will usually result in a violent confrontation with law enforcement. I fully support law enforcement.


The pain and rage caused by centuries of systematic oppresion may not fit into your idea of what it should look like.



zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

We're not living in the past; we're living in the now. Act like a responsible human being and you'll be fine 99% of the time, regardless of your skin color. If you don't, then consequences will naturally follow. If you don't believe that then you're just looking for excuses and are part of the problem, not the solution. That's my opinion. Take it or leave it.
Last edited by: Jason80134: Oct 1, 15 10:28
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:

Have you actually watched the video of Garner's take down? He was engaged verbally with the cops and then BOOM, cop goes and physically takes him down. There was no physical threat from Garner and certainly nothing that warranted the use of lethal force.


Yes, I've watched the video. It's here and you might want to watch it again because the facts do not support your description above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpGxagKOkv8

At 4:30 in the video the cop moves to arrest him, and AFTER the cop draws Garner's hands behind his back (i.e. the process of arresting him had been initiated), Garner resists, saying "don't touch me" and pulls his arms away from the cop behind him.

That is not "BOOM" after a merely a verbal conversation (or no conversation in the case of James Blake - btw, a much better case for BLM). That is RESISTING ARREST. Again, I believe police reforms are warranted, but you - and others - are often choosing poor examples to make the case. We can't even be sure of how good a case Freddy Gray is yet, because the facts are still coming in and trial is yet to take place.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/...-20150930-story.html
Last edited by: Kay Serrar: Oct 1, 15 10:25
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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this really should be LR material.



i think the Scott and Grey cases are the focus of the BLM movement. certainly the focus of their proposals, as shown here. if people want to say its not institutionalized racisim ok (ish), but then you gotta call it institutionalized oppression. and that's a very problematic political discussion. look at Grey in Baltimore. a black guy was killed but three of the accused officers are black. the police hierarchy is black. ditto the mayor and the council, even the prosecuting attorney is black. so it not the cookie cutter white supremacy. however, until the BLM folks stirred the pot, it was going to go unaddressed.
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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Jason80134 wrote:
FindinFreestyle wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:

Racism is not the problem. People behaving like animals is the problem. Behaving like an animal will usually result in a violent confrontation with law enforcement. I fully support law enforcement.


The pain and rage caused by centuries of systematic oppresion may not fit into your idea of what it should look like.



zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Only intelligent thing you've said in the entire thread.
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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Runless wrote:
You're the problem.

Said the five year old.

What a joke.
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Last I checked, resisting arrest doesn't justify use of deadly force. Only someone fleeing a felony and endangering the lives of others. Again, could be wrong, but sheer resisting arrest doesn't justify use of deadly force, which I think a choke hold qualifies as.
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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You can't reason with stupid, or racism, the fact that you say, "we're not living in the past. We're living in the now" demonstrated how completely out of touch with reality that you are. Like I said, I'm at a loss that people really don't think racism has serious consequences for the lives of black people in America today. And what I'm talking about goes well beyond just police citizen interaction. Education, health care, housing, employment. All of these things, that when you're given the benefit of the doubt, make life a lot easier. When you are at a disadvantage in all these facets of life, because of an immutable characterictic, life becomes a bit more challenging.

The real sign to me that racism is alive in this country, is that k-5 children of color receive far more suspensions and discipline at school than there white counterparts. These are kids, they all act the same, and studies back this up. If you have authority treating you unfairly since the age of 5, how exactly are you to expect that that's going to change at some point in your life?
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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You honestly think the cop intended to kill Garner?
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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Runless wrote:
Last I checked, resisting arrest doesn't justify use of deadly force. Only someone fleeing a felony and endangering the lives of others. Again, could be wrong, but sheer resisting arrest doesn't justify use of deadly force, which I think a choke hold qualifies as.

You know there is a good way to avoid problems when resisting arrest: stop committing crimes, or maybe comply with law enforcement directives when you are caught engaging in criminal behavior. That applies to all people of all races.

There is this idea of law and order. As a society we actually do give law enforcement authority to actually enforce the laws we create for our society. Some people don't seem to realize this.
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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Runless wrote:
You can't reason with stupid, or racism, the fact that you say, "we're not living in the past. We're living in the now" demonstrated how completely out of touch with reality that you are. Like I said, I'm at a loss that people really don't think racism has serious consequences for the lives of black people in America today. And what I'm talking about goes well beyond just police citizen interaction. Education, health care, housing, employment. All of these things, that when you're given the benefit of the doubt, make life a lot easier. When you are at a disadvantage in all these facets of life, because of an immutable characterictic, life becomes a bit more challenging.

The real sign to me that racism is alive in this country, is that k-5 children of color receive far more suspensions and discipline at school than there white counterparts. These are kids, they all act the same, and studies back this up. If you have authority treating you unfairly since the age of 5, how exactly are you to expect that that's going to change at some point in your life?


Be a responsible person and obey the laws.
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Re: Protesters plan on blocking twin cities marathon at mile 25 [LuchaLibre] [ In reply to ]
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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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