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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:
gary p wrote:


Ah, I was hoping there was a cheaper option. Not sure the tri-rig is worth the $ since most of the aero goodness is hidden under the shroud. Wonder if a Campag rear TT brake could be configured to work? They're only ~$40.


That bugs me too. Testing is limited so far but what has been done shows that the bottle is far more significant than the marginal gains from the centrepull caliper. So it makes a lot more sense to go with the bottle and a cheap brake that doesn't block the gusset. Unfortunately there aren't any cost effective front centrepull calipers now - I can't recommend putting rear brakes on the front in order to use PD product.

Will see if I can find a Transition to test on as that would answer the question in a safe way.

Did you ever happen to find a Transition to test on? I have a 2013 Transition that I'm thinking of upgrading to an UA and wanted to make sure everything would fit before jumping into it.

Thanks!
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [TriangleIL] [ In reply to ]
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TriangleIL wrote:
Did you ever happen to find a Transition to test on? I have a 2013 Transition that I'm thinking of upgrading to an UA and wanted to make sure everything would fit before jumping into it.

Thanks!

Afraid not, haven't had any Transitions through since that post. Which size is your one?


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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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For what its worth, TRP sell a longer brake bolt specifically for mounting the 925 centre-pull caliper on the front. I have this set-up, works fine. Given the relatively low-profile I would hope this would fit under the shroud
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:
TriangleIL wrote:

Did you ever happen to find a Transition to test on? I have a 2013 Transition that I'm thinking of upgrading to an UA and wanted to make sure everything would fit before jumping into it.

Thanks!


Afraid not, haven't had any Transitions through since that post. Which size is your one?

Medium
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Very interested in this. Trying to make sure it will fit...

Current setup is 55cm p3sl, 80mm - 17 stem, 10mm spacer, Pad stack 613, pad reach (back of pad 515). T2+ aerobar with about 1cm between the brackets and the stem. F19 Pads are spaced by 216mm center to center. My j2 brackets are forward of the clamp by about 20mm. Current basebar is Ozero alloy. Planning to switch to the stratos cx after Xmas (:-).

Last week I tested moving the pads in by 3cm each (to 157mm). I had to accomplish that by moving the brackets tight to the stem, and then bolting the f19 pads by a single bolt to the inner j2 mounting hole. My cda improved by 0.012.

I think I can get what I want by just switching to the race cups, and the aeria 100mm stem. If my graphical measurements are right with the race pads in the narrow config the pad center moves in by 35mm versus the f19 pads. Yes? If so that would move my pad c-c to 146 (216-70).

If that's true, then I can stay with the T2 brackets, and leave the extensions at 108mm (c-c), which should leave enough clearance (85mm). I might need to move the bracket in 5mm or so for the narrow clamp of the stratos. But, I think that's fine.

The longer stem will push the extension clamp brackets tight to pad brackets.

Am I missing anything?

So new setup would be:

Syntace stratos cx
T2+ brackets
Race cups
Aeria 100mm stem

PadY (unchanged) 613mm
PadX (unchanged) 515mm
PadZ (in by 70mm) 146mm
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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For the pad Z (width)


Pink is extension, grey is bracket, light blue is armrest
Thus your minimum pad centre increment (distance from centre of extension to centre of pad) is 27.75mm, which we'll call 28mm. 108+28 = 136mm minimum pad z.

No problem for X as the Race armrest gives a lot more adjustment so you can put the clamp where you like.
You would need some more spacers as the stem is lower Y than your current one. Diagram below compares a 'standard' -17 stem to the AU


I would add that you'll likely find it easier to relax into a tight position with the Race cups but that the same c-c measurement on Race as F19 will feel a lot tighter. So try to measure to where you actually place your elbows on the F19, then set up race to match. The Race cups allow no ambiguity about elbow position.


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Last edited by: cyclenutnz: Nov 12, 18 17:53
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you.

I think I have the old j2 bracket. The one that has the 2 blind holes underneath. I don't know if that's any different from the new j2? I considered drilling and Tapping the blind holes... But I haven't measured them to see if that's possible at the same thread size. I wouldn't want to go up a thread size and risk weakening the bracket.

Thanks for the info on the stem. I was confused by the various nomenclatures used on the stem. I've seen - 17 and 12x100 in different places on the web. I found another thread today where you posted the dimensions on the stem. So the bar clamp is about 10mm lower. I haven't cut my steerer yet. So I can space up if needed. That said, I want to try this position anyway, also with a little more extension tilt. I could try this cheaply (and quickly) with a standard 100mm stem and just remove my 10mm spacer.

I was reading the comments in the "what's my favorite cups" thread. I might go mock something up with some pvc to test how tight they feel. 90mm diameter cup plus a 10mm pad, right? I have pretty skinny forearms.

I was having the same thought on pad spacing today as I was scaling various screen grabs into Visio. It seems like outside position is a better measure of Z when changing between pad types.

Again, thank you for all the info and detailed drawings. It helps a ton. I can only go so far scaling web photos.
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Can I just say something? Your availability here, posting exact CAD drawings and measurements, advice etc - has completely changed my perception of Profile Design as a brand, and allowed me to fully appreciate the design of the newest generation of products. Good job!

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [tessar] [ In reply to ]
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tessar wrote:
Can I just say something? Your availability here, posting exact CAD drawings and measurements, advice etc - has completely changed my perception of Profile Design as a brand, and allowed me to fully appreciate the design of the newest generation of products. Good job!

Of course you can say that - thank you. Any other nice comments gratefully received as tools for my next round of contract negotiations ;-)

All the work that has gone into lifting the function and fit of the products would be wasted if no one knew about it other than me. Still working on increasing the information that flows through traditional channels so in the meantime making sure that the knowledge is shared here.


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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Can you take a pic of your J2 Bracket? I'm not totally expert on all the iterations - the calcs above are based on being able to use the clamp bolt as a pad bolt. If that is not an option with your bracket I think it adds 37mm to the minimum width.

What is your extension tilt angle?

The race cups came about as a nicer solution than the aluminium pipe I used to slice and grind. 84mm ID for skinny cyclists, 100mm for me.
There are 5mm and 10mm pads for the cups to fine tune the fit. I am fine with the 5mm pads (as seen here, I am no waif) - the cups were in fact designed with my arms as the maximum size to fit.

No need to scale web photos - I'm happy to help.


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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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I'd like to echo this sentiment, it's really valuable hearing from the designer and getting detailed feedback and insight into product development. I will definitely be buying the revised stem when it is released, just waiting for a 110mm option. I think this will be a great addition to my set-up
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:

Can you take a pic of your J2 Bracket? I'm not totally expert on all the iterations - the calcs above are based on being able to use the clamp bolt as a pad bolt. If that is not an option with your bracket I think it adds 37mm to the minimum width.

See pix below. The blind holes are the more inner holes on the underside of the bracket.

cyclenutnz wrote:

What is your extension tilt angle?


Current tilt is 7 degrees.

cyclenutnz wrote:


The race cups came about as a nicer solution than the aluminium pipe I used to slice and grind. 84mm ID for skinny cyclists, 100mm for me.
There are 5mm and 10mm pads for the cups to fine tune the fit. I am fine with the 5mm pads (as seen here, I am no waif) - the cups were in fact designed with my arms as the maximum size to fit.

No need to scale web photos - I'm happy to help.


Thanks, again.

cyclenutnz wrote:
I would add that you'll likely find it easier to relax into a tight position with the Race cups but that the same c-c measurement on Race as F19 will feel a lot tighter. So try to measure to where you actually place your elbows on the F19, then set up race to match. The Race cups allow no ambiguity about elbow position.

That's a really good point. I looked at the indentions in the pad this morning. My elbows rest in the wider crease of the F-19 pads (more or less), where the cup actually turns "up". That puts my effective Z more at about 260mm or so. That would mean my "tested Z" was more like 200mm vice the 157mm c-c measurement. Since the F19 is pretty sloppy, there's probably a good bit of variation from one day to the next.

ETA: I meant to ask, where are you located in NZ? I used to spend a fair amount of time over there working for the RNZ(ed)AF, as the chief engineer for the P-3K2. You may occasionally see it flying around...

http://www.airforce.mil.nz/...k2-orion/default.htm





Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 13, 18 12:00
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Re: Profile Design Aeria Ultimate aerobar and stem [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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I’m selling my Aeria Ultimate bar/stem and Aeria HSF hydration system if anyone is interested. 100mm stem. No particular reason other than I’m tinkering. Installed but has never been ridden. So in impeccable condition. Let me know.

2018 Races:
INJURED

Favorite Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [tessar] [ In reply to ]
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x2.
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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I wouldn't get too excited about switching to a carbon basebar, the below chart is from basebar only testing


Obviously there will also be interaction effects that aren't measured here. But it's highly unlikely they will be sufficient to make it a good speed per $ change.

I'm in Cambridge - far from Whenuapai or Ohakea so I don't see the Orions. Have a few airforce clients.

That bracket you have is the plus 37mm one. There was a variation where the base part of the clamp was threaded, so you could use the hole where your clamp bolt is for pad mounting.

I'd suggest a Sonic bracket if you want to be able to test narrow positions with fine graduations.


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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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That's ok. I only paid $50 us for the bar. The same price I paid for the Ozero. If it doesn't work out better in aero, and I don't like it for aesthetics, I'll resell it for $80. :). I would also assume that the HSF would shadow much of the dirty harware and handlebar clamp area.

I was looking at the sonic brackets, too. I'll probably try the race cups in the wide config which is still narrower than what I've already tried. If I run out of options then I can always switch out the T2+ hardware for the sonic.

Thanks again.

Yeah, I never made it down that far south on the north island. We made it down to coromandel once on a free weekend. And I spent a ton of time in Blenheim. Once we went north to goat Island and I got to swim around the island. That was pretty cool for a guy from Dallas, Texas.
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:

Definitely option 2 rather than 1. Hide that headtube and let air flow between pedestals

I have a P5-3 and mighy redo my fork and cockpit. Which would you suspect is faster:

1. P5-6 fork with beard and FC25 tucked neatly between my arms. My wrists and forearm are actually in full contact the bottle and only the straw is visible from the side because the bottle height is also centered with my forearm height.

2. Use the aerial bottle I stead of beard and have empty space between my forearms.

My pad stack is about 60mm from steerer clamp bottom center to pad top if that makes any difference about where air can/should flow
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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Damon said the P5-6 fork setup was worth ~10g
The difference between an FC25 and an Aeria Ultimate is significantly higher than that.


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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Great! I think that settles it. I'll get the fork and use the aeria instead of the beard to shield the head tube for next season. Just have to decide on a bar. Can't make up my mind between USE R1, ENVE, Brezza Nano, and Missile Evo. All are fast and all fit my coordinates.

Thanks for all of your input on ST!
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Re: Profile Design Aeria Ultimate aerobar and stem [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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GMAN- just was checking in to see if you still have your PD set up for sale?
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Re: Profile Design Aeria Ultimate aerobar and stem [Nochainrider] [ In reply to ]
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Nochainrider wrote:
GMAN- just was checking in to see if you still have your PD set up for sale?

Yes. The one and only issue is that it’s still attached to my bike and I just had shoulder surgery and can’t disassemble as of yet. I can get it off after the first of the year... hopefully.

2018 Races:
INJURED

Favorite Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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I've got a transition up in Auckland if you need one to test on
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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I have a question; the aerobridge came with my Ultimate Aeria purchase but the other two pieces that would lock into the aerobridge are not in the box. We’re they supposed to come with it? Where can I find them? I dont see them on PD website.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Dec 23, 18 6:07
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [TriangleIL] [ In reply to ]
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i had this on my old transition, when i try to post a picture it comes out upside down
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Re: Choice between the new ENVE SES Aero TT system or the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate. Which would you choose? [MrTiff] [ In reply to ]
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