Pre-riding IM bike courses

Apr 23, 19 9:01

Post #1 of 23 (2786 views)

It looks like I'm going to have the opportunity to pre-ride the bike courses of my two key races this year - IM 70.3 Santa Rosa and Santa Cruz. Santa Cruz I'll be able to pre-ride twice (once next weekend, and again in late June, race is in Sept), and Santa Rosa at least once (in early June, race is late July). I'm looking for some tips on pre-riding the courses.

1) Which bike? My instinct was to ride on my road bike (at least for the first pre-ride), so I could look around more in the upright position, or should I ride the TT bike? Both bikes have same gearing.
2) Which wheels? Especially if TT bike, would you use this as an opportunity to test race wheel depth on the course (even though race day conditions could be different), or build confidence on the course running shallower wheels?
3) What speed/power? Should I do a full course race-pace rehearsal (I worry about how that will fit into my overall training plan), just insert a few race pace intervals on key sections of course and treat the rest like a more typical weekend endurance ride?
4) How much of course to ride? Would you ride the whole course, or just the main sections outside of town? I'm leaning to the latter, just seems logistically easier.

I normally drive the course the day before race and it helps a lot, I figure actually riding the course will make a huge difference, but would welcome feedback there also (i.e., is this worth the hassle, burning some spousal approval units, etc.)

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [wintershade] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 9:22

Post #2 of 23 (2745 views)

You may be overthinking this. Of course, that's my initial reaction to about half the threads on ST.

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [Thom] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 9:43

Post #3 of 23 (2706 views)

Thom wrote:

You may be overthinking this. Of course, that's my initial reaction to about half the threads on ST.

+1

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [wintershade] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 9:45

Post #4 of 23 (2698 views)

wintershade wrote:

2) Which wheels? Especially if TT bike, would you use this as an opportunity to test race wheel depth on the course (even though race day conditions could be different), or build confidence on the course running shallower wheels?

I read this thinking like a roadie, and fully understand people don't want to ruin $$$ wheels, but IMHO people need to train what they're going to want to run.

The person out training on a disc and trispoke isn't a chauvinistic ass, they're smart. Or they just like it.

Let's say there's 40% chance of weather that day and the 40% hits on the bike course. You're suddenly trying to manage a bike with equipment you don't train on in some solid wind.

If the wheels are under 60mm or so, I don't think it would matter that much. But 80's, discs, trispokes.....yeah. Please learn to ride that. At home or on the course itself, something.

Some of us train the TT setups on purpose on a somewhat windy day. We may pick a nicer course for cars or obstacles, but you need to learn it. As time spent sitting up feeling uneasy is time thrown in the toilet.

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [Thom] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 11:17

Post #5 of 23 (2572 views)

Thom wrote:

You may be overthinking this. Of course, that's my initial reaction to about half the threads on ST.

I don't get the preoccupation with riding a bike course... at all.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [wintershade] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 11:33

Post #6 of 23 (2544 views)

So I've done IMchoo 3 times and can be on the course within 1.5 hrs. I usually just ride the 45 mile loop and avoid the out and backs to Chattanooga. I usually just ride my tri bike with no race gear on it (I have thought about taking my roadie because of different gearing and it would make it easier to ride out of the valley). I may do this 3 times a year. It's not something I want to do every weekend, but at least once or twice to remember fast sections and see if the pavement has changed.

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [wintershade] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 11:34

Post #7 of 23 (2542 views)

Hey man, I live in Santa Rosa and doing the Full Ironman on May 11th. I have pre-run the 112 miles about 12 times in last few months (overkill but I think it is fun and I live here.) My advice is it is a relatively hilly course (west side road, Chalk hill etc....) so of your 56 miles 35 of it you will be either be going up or down4 hill. I used to ride 808's and switched to 404's in both front and back. I wouldn't bring anything more than a 606 set up (my opinion).

Speed or pace? Pretty subjective but if I were you, it shouldn't be an accomplishment to ride 56 miles by the time you come and pre ride it so you should do a medium+ pace and just pay attention on where you should be recovering and where you should be pedaling pot holes etc.....

If you have time to do it twice, go medium + on the first one, and drill the second one.

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [wintershade] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 11:36

Post #8 of 23 (2538 views)

What I tend to do is first time on TT bike with training wheels and close to race nutrition, second time full dress rehearsal - clothng, wheels, nutrition.

However, this is actually not the way round you'd think. I do this to get a break from the monotony of the normal training routes at home, and as an excuse for a couple of weekends away.

Minimal actual advantage from riding the course, especially if the race is on a looped course then it gets pretty darn boring.

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 11:42

Post #9 of 23 (2524 views)

The GMAN wrote:

Thom wrote:

You may be overthinking this. Of course, that's my initial reaction to about half the threads on ST.

I don't get the preoccupation with riding a bike course... at all.

If there are some "features" of the course, like a technical downhill, or some aspect that makes it special due to needing a "heads up" for some section, I can understand at least riding that part of it.

What I will never understand is the "need" people feel to pre-ride some dead-flat course like MD or FL.

And what I really will never get is riding any "course" on a smart trainer. I just don't see how that ever is really beneficial.

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 11:44

Post #10 of 23 (2515 views)

The GMAN wrote:

Thom wrote:

You may be overthinking this. Of course, that's my initial reaction to about half the threads on ST.

I don't get the preoccupation with riding a bike course... at all.

I usually like to drive it to make notes of things like turns that come up quicker than expected or other surprise parts of the bike course. I know HIM Chattanooga there's a 90 degree turn coming off of a descent going onto a short steep climb so it's nice to know where there is so you're in the right gear going in. But so many people have ridden these courses you can post on ST or facebook pages and people give you a good idea of where any tricky parts may be

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 11:50

Post #11 of 23 (2501 views)

The GMAN wrote:

Thom wrote:

You may be overthinking this. Of course, that's my initial reaction to about half the threads on ST.

I don't get the preoccupation with riding a bike course... at all.

20 years in the sport and I don't think I've ever pre-ridden a course. Tri courses just aren't that technical, this isn't mountain bike racing. If someone feels more comfortable knowing the course I can understand that but I have trouble imagining some scenario where it would be an advantage on race day.

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [wintershade] [ In reply to ]

Dave Latourette

Apr 23, 19 12:01

Post #12 of 23 (2482 views)

Perspective on both races (I live in Santa Rosa, familiar w/ Santa Cruz)

Wheels ... ride the most aero thing you have in both races on race day. Wider rims wheels that allow for lower tire pressure help alot in SR
Bike ... ride the bike you will race on

Things to decide on when pre-riding (especially Santa Rosa)
- Gearing ... decide what gearing you need to ride the effort you expect to put out. This is the biggest mistake a lot of athletes make (just using what they have to "get by") If you have fitness and proper gearing, hills should have no impact on how you prepare other than knowing that the exist and how you will ride them from a power out put standpoint.

- Road Surfaces -> Tire Pressure -> In SR70.3 tires / tire pressure have a huge impact.

I tend to agree with an earlier poster about pre-riding courses. I think its great to have an idea of what to expect so you can make educated choices. But, travelling to do multiple course recons could be better spent just training at home, getting the work done and recovering as opposed to driving to and from. Most people come and ride the course here but don't take the time to learn the things they should (mentioned above) SO, if you travel to places learn the things that are truly course specific and be honest about the things you can change.

Good Luck and Enjoy your training!

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 12:36

Post #13 of 23 (2445 views)

The GMAN wrote:

Thom wrote:

You may be overthinking this. Of course, that's my initial reaction to about half the threads on ST.

I don't get the preoccupation with riding a bike course... at all.

X whatever.... Drive if you must but honestly as noted most courses don't have anything that technical. Granted, some might, and I have driven some courses, especially if there is a decent climb (i.e Callaghan at Canada).

But riding?

I was even more put off on the whole idea the year I did NOLA and coming back from a tour we came upon the body of a participant who was rear ended and killed while out riding the course. If we are racing a closed course in an area we are not familiar with, we may be on roads that aren't safe outside race day

I go back to the original responses that this level of detail is overthinking it, unless you're a pro in the hunt

Last edited by: ChrisM: Apr 23, 19 12:38

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [Thom] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 13:29

Post #14 of 23 (2340 views)

Thom wrote:

The GMAN wrote:

Thom wrote:

You may be overthinking this. Of course, that's my initial reaction to about half the threads on ST.

I don't get the preoccupation with riding a bike course... at all.

20 years in the sport and I don't think I've ever pre-ridden a course. Tri courses just aren't that technical, this isn't mountain bike racing. If someone feels more comfortable knowing the course I can understand that but I have trouble imagining some scenario where it would be an advantage on race day.

not to mention that unless I ride a course 10-15x, I am NOT going to remember most of it...especially turns here and there...

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 13:33

Post #15 of 23 (2331 views)

ChrisM wrote:

The GMAN wrote:

Thom wrote:

You may be overthinking this. Of course, that's my initial reaction to about half the threads on ST.

I don't get the preoccupation with riding a bike course... at all.

X whatever.... Drive if you must but honestly as noted most courses don't have anything that technical. Granted, some might, and I have driven some courses, especially if there is a decent climb (i.e Callaghan at Canada).

But riding?

I was even more put off on the whole idea the year I did NOLA and coming back from a tour we came upon the body of a participant who was rear ended and killed while out riding the course. If we are racing a closed course in an area we are not familiar with, we may be on roads that aren't safe outside race day

I go back to the original responses that this level of detail is overthinking it, unless you're a pro in the hunt

Pretty much pay attention to the course profile and choose your gearing accordingly. Nothing else really matters.

I did Whistler the first two years 2013-2014. I'd have to ride about 1,000 miles around where I live to equate to the same total gain of the Whistler course. I just prepared for "hilly" and did it. There's no way I could replicate the course at home. There was no way I was flying to Canada to pre-ride it. First year I did ride the last 20 miles of the course (Pemberton back to Whistler) like three days before the race just to check it out. I just thought, "Well, that's gonna suck on Sunday but whatever."

I also live about 20 miles from the IMTX race site so in theory I could've rode the old course hundreds of times. I did it exactly one time... on race day.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [g_lev] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 13:41

Post #16 of 23 (2302 views)

g_lev wrote:

The GMAN wrote:

Thom wrote:

You may be overthinking this. Of course, that's my initial reaction to about half the threads on ST.

I don't get the preoccupation with riding a bike course... at all.

What I will never understand is the "need" people feel to pre-ride some dead-flat course like MD or FL.

And what I really will never get is riding any "course" on a smart trainer. I just don't see how that ever is really beneficial.

Those two points make me kind of nuts.

People around here make a big deal about pre-riding the Texas 70.3 course down in Galveston. It makes IMFL look mountainous in comparison. Total ascent over 56 miles is like 150 feet.

I NEVER understood the smart trainer course if we're just talking about riding an erg file (like mrc or tcx). All that does is make flats a lower power and hills higher. The whole point of a 70.3 or 140.6 ride is to do it steady as possible... not have the power profile match the elevation profile. Now if there was a real world course, like if Zwift made an IMLP course for example, maybe I could see some benefit but not much.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 13:50

Post #17 of 23 (2291 views)

Always amazes me both times driving into Whistler two days before the race people have ridden down to climb Callaghan.

Not even sure why you rode Pemberton - Whistler.

I was going to drive that bit but never did. First exposure was going down it.

One year I started driving the Lake Mead roads at what became Silverman. too many hills to count so I said fuck it and turned around after 5 miles

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [jjmccabe8] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 14:13

Post #18 of 23 (2258 views)

jjmccabe8 wrote:

Hey man, I live in Santa Rosa and doing the Full Ironman on May 11th. I have pre-run the 112 miles about 12 times in last few months (overkill but I think it is fun and I live here.) My advice is it is a relatively hilly course (west side road, Chalk hill etc....) so of your 56 miles 35 of it you will be either be going up or down4 hill. I used to ride 808's and switched to 404's in both front and back. I wouldn't bring anything more than a 606 set up (my opinion).

Speed or pace? Pretty subjective but if I were you, it shouldn't be an accomplishment to ride 56 miles by the time you come and pre ride it so you should do a medium+ pace and just pay attention on where you should be recovering and where you should be pedaling pot holes etc.....

If you have time to do it twice, go medium + on the first one, and drill the second one.

Thanks Jim! This is exactly the advice I was looking for.

My thought for the key goal of the pre-rides is primarily what you suggest -- just focusing on where I should be recovering vs pushing, where to carry some momentum, road quality, etc. Just general recon with a greater level of granularity than you can riding shotgun in a car.

I know several people have commented that pre-riding a course is a waste of time. I don't really agree. I have no doubt that I ride smarter (i.e. manage my effort and ride the terrain better) when I'm familiar with a course / have ridden it at least once before. It's just helpful to know, for example, "I need to push down this false flat because that next little hill is stepper than it looks" or "it's okay to push harder here, because the hill flatten behind that curve and I can recover a bit" etc.

I'm not pro, but I'm looking to be FOP this year. And I don't think it matters much. Even if I were MOP or BOP, we're all doing this to eek out the best performance we can based on what our genetics and family/work/life balance permit, are we not?

I should add, the reason I'm able to pre-ride these courses this year is I happen to have multiple weddings in the area, so it's not really putting me out really.

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 14:24

Post #19 of 23 (2233 views)

The GMAN wrote:

I don't get the preoccupation with riding a bike course... at all.

I actually have a preoccupation with NOT pre-riding a bike course. I kind of like that race day is a totally new experience. I'm specifically going to not pre-ride any of Norseman this August because I'll "enjoy" it all the more when every inch of that road is a new adventure.

If I want a specific pacing strategy that takes the course profile into account, I'll use BBS and target pace on my Wahoo bolt.

But that's just me and whatever blows your hair back :-).

Rich.

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [Dave Latourette] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 14:25

Post #20 of 23 (2228 views)

Dave Latourette wrote:

Perspective on both races (I live in Santa Rosa, familiar w/ Santa Cruz)

Wheels ... ride the most aero thing you have in both races on race day. Wider rims wheels that allow for lower tire pressure help alot in SR
Bike ... ride the bike you will race on

Things to decide on when pre-riding (especially Santa Rosa)
- Gearing ... decide what gearing you need to ride the effort you expect to put out. This is the biggest mistake a lot of athletes make (just using what they have to "get by") If you have fitness and proper gearing, hills should have no impact on how you prepare other than knowing that the exist and how you will ride them from a power out put standpoint.

- Road Surfaces -> Tire Pressure -> In SR70.3 tires / tire pressure have a huge impact.

Thanks Dave. Much appreciated advice. Two follow-up questions:
1) I've heard road quality in SR is bad. How low would you go on TP? I'll be running Zipp NSWs tubeless, probably 25c GP5000TL, though having good success training on Zipp Speed TL at the moment. I generally run 80f/85r.
2) I'm planning to run a 808r/404f setup for both races, though I also own an 808 and 303 NSW front wheel. I'm a lighter 70KG rider easily spooked by gusts, so I was thinking of leaving the 808 front at home, and if anything bringing the 303 front in event winds are especially bad. Thoughts?

I'm lucky in that in San Francisco, we have an ourdoor cycling track that I'm trying to ride as often as I can, rocking the 808s on gusty days in the hopes I can eventually improve handling such that they're faster, but right now, except on dead windless days (which never happen around these parts), I'm fastest around the track with a 404, and windy days a 303.

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [wintershade] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 15:42

Post #21 of 23 (2142 views)

I agree with your basic premise that you probably do better on a course you've experienced.

My issue is that I am not a local in a lot of races I go to, so I may not know that riding X road at Y time of day is not something anyone does as it's unsafe if not closed for a race and in fact can get you killed, as I have witnessed

ETA and if what I Read was true I am surprised Dave L did not mention it... I was looking at SR full last year and all the chatter was that folks shouldn't plan on riding the last loop section near town as it was not safe. Maybe this isn't true, maybe it is, definitely something you should look into

Plus I just think 112 mile rides aren't that helpful for IM, so maybe part of it only. And definitely scope out local knowledge re what is safe

This is a hobby so if I avoid that risk and ride 6:05 rather than 5:55, I can accept that tradeoff

Last edited by: ChrisM: Apr 23, 19 15:43

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]

Apr 23, 19 16:11

Post #22 of 23 (2102 views)

Yes, very true. Safety is key. It’s part of why I’m inclined to pre-ride on road bike, and why I’m generally quite choosy about when/where I’ll ride my TT bike — being less situationally aware and further from brakes in aero.

If there are some Santa Rosa locals who can comment on what parts of course to avoid or focus on that would be appreciated. Same for Santa Cruz (though I’m told the HWY 1 stretch is pretty safe).

Re: Pre-riding IM bike courses [wintershade] [ In reply to ]

Dave Latourette

Apr 23, 19 18:09

Post #23 of 23 (1994 views)

Tire Pressure ... With those wheels and your weight 80PSI front & rear is what I would ride (I am about 69-71kilo) and its what I ride on HED Belgium-XL every ride here.

Regarding the course and pavement: Here is a video i did last year on the entire Ironman course ... for reference, for most part the first 42'ish (except for the two extra miles to Cloverdale) and last 14 are the same so you could fast forward through mile 42-100 ...

ALSO edit: Willowside Rd is brand new pavement .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qIqp6wTju4

Wind is NOT an issue at almost any level for the 70.3 ... winds can be a bit different in May

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Last edited by: Dave Latourette: Apr 23, 19 18:13

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