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Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal?
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Hello fellow triathletes! I was reading this forum sometimes and recently came here again, when looking for possible causes of my Power2Max wobbling. The thread I was reading didn't help with my problems but I thought that maybe there are other Rotor3D24 users here that observed (or not) similar phenomena.

Long story short - i purchased Power2Max NGeco with Rotor 3D24 and Praxis chainrings directly from Power2Max and observed visible wobble since the first time I mounted it. It looks like that:

I contacted Power2Max support and the last message I got from them was "can you live with that?". I contacted them 3 times since but no response during the last 10 days. This is a major disappointment.

I tried to investigate the problem further and at least figure out if it's in the spider, cranksets or chainrings. I reconnected the spider perhaps 10 times and tried various FD settings but nothing changed. Chainrings and spider seem to be perfectly flat... But when I started looking at crankset, I found some odd things. The crank arms seem to be asymmetric, as seen on this videos:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo9b4L8z__Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsLAxloo6CM


I contacted Rotor support with that. They said: "contact Power2Max, case closed". Doh! Power2Max doesn't respond. Wobble doesn't stop and regardless of FD setting or trimming I get plenty of chain rubbing.


Perhaps there is someone with Rotor3D24 and can tell if this seems normal? I am thinking right now about purchasing another crankset and fixing it myself since Power2Max is pretty much useless


Thanks!
Przemek
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [pmaciolek] [ In reply to ]
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I have the same wobble with my Power2Max 3D+. At first, I thought it might be a BB issue. But I'm pretty sure it's a Power2Max issue. It bugs me a little, but I don't think it's affecting performance.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:

I have the same wobble with my Power2Max 3D+. At first, I thought it might be a BB issue. But I'm pretty sure it's a Power2Max issue. It bugs me a little, but I don't think it's affecting performance.
I fitted a Power2Max NGeco 3D+ several weeks ago and didn't notice anything until a week ago. It certainly wasn't there on day 1. And I think I would have noticed it sooner if it arose in the first couple of weeks. At a guess there's now maybe 1.5mm of lateral movement in the chain on the big ring during a stroke. I assumed something had come loose and checked everything except the clamping ring for the spider before last night's session. No change.
It's rather annoying and does cause rubbing on the FD unless I'm extremely precise with where I put the bar end lever after a gear change. It's bad enough that I need to tweak it with most rear changes to avoid rubbing.
Further investigation to follow when I get a chance!
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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I have a little wobble on my rotor 3D+ but I don’t have the power2max. I swear it developed over time but I can’t be sure it wasn’t there when I installed. Luckily it doesn’t cause the chain to run anywhere.
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [pmaciolek] [ In reply to ]
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I have and currently run a 3D24 with P2Max, and also a stock 3D24. I cant say i have noticed any issues with either set up. I will look again more closely and see.
Just some thoughts:
worn out or grooved BB bearing?
bent crank axle?
Both of those would have shown lateral wobble with stock spider and chainrings though.

Team Zoot-Texas, and Pickle Juice
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [Taugen] [ In reply to ]
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Taugen wrote:
I have and currently run a 3D24 with P2Max, and also a stock 3D24. I cant say i have noticed any issues with either set up. I will look again more closely and see.
Just some thoughts:
worn out or grooved BB bearing?
bent crank axle?
Both of those would have shown lateral wobble with stock spider and chainrings though.
In my case I replaced the BB when installing the PM and new crankset so I don't think it's a worn BB or bent axle.
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [pmaciolek] [ In reply to ]
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Seems to be a recurring issue

https://reddit.com/...m_bracket_or_cranks/
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [cdorcy] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, this looks a lot like the problem I am having. Perhaps the factor is BB90 bracket (I have Trek as well).

One more observation, I tried to measure spline distance from the end of the axle. Found there is a difference: https://imgur.com/a/wiDMWHw

Since Power2Max Support does not exist, seems I am left with fixing this myself. I am thinking about purchasing another Rotor3D24 (hopefully a different batch)
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [pmaciolek] [ In reply to ]
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I had a slight issue with my p2m classic on a rotor 3d24, but not with my s-type.
mine used to occasionally throw the chain.

Whether its the "pressed tin" case of the p2max being a little more pliant than the cast original spider, i'm not sure, but I just worked out where the wobble was, double checking the spider was sat correctly on the splines at that point, and then effectively straightened the chainringor spider interface using an adjustable spanner.

Works perfectly and has done for the last 3 years.
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [philg] [ In reply to ]
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What this guy said ^

To OP, have you checked the "straightness" of the P2M spider? What about the mating surface interface between the spider and crank arm or the spider/spider lockring? If those are off then that could be a culprit for the wobble you are experiencing.
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [pmaciolek] [ In reply to ]
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I have had the same problem. Rotor 3d+ and a power2max eco with a very noticeable wobble. I contacted both companies by email and they were very helpful - Power2max went above and beyond what I expected. However the whole thing was massively time consuming. I tried every combination of cranks, spider and bike that I could as I have 2 sets of 3d+ cranks, a non power meter spider and 2 road bikes. It was tough to narrow down other than it was not the chain rings or the bikes. Both cranks seemed to have the same wobble. An email from Rotor said that the torque for the spider should be 52nm. I dont think that this has fixed the problem fully but it has certainly helped so I would recommend trying it. I cut a piece of PVC pipe to hold the crank arm in a vice while I torqued it up.
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [pmaciolek] [ In reply to ]
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P2max emailed me the other day that their engineers have tracked the issue to the rotor cranks and that the “spindle has not been mounted at the correct angle with the drive side crank arm” and p2max has found that all of their 172.5 3d24s in stock today are affected by this (I dont know about any other current or past stock). They are sending me new cranks when their next shipment arrives from rotor which makes me happy because the pm itself simply works perfectly all the time.
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [east31] [ In reply to ]
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Quick update from my side. After going back and forth P2M confirmed it is crankset issue.

I ordered another crank and waiting for it (hopefully, another batch). Then I will send the (as I believe) defective one back and maybe get a refund for it.

Very time consuming and a lot of delays between P2M support responses.

I asked Rotor twice if they can help narrow the issue down to the crankset. Their response was the same both times. Essentially "don't contact us, go to P2M". I wonder why their support exist at all...

I suspect that what happens is that the broken batch has the axle not perfectly perpendicular to the right crankarm. Perhaps the drill on the factory line got misaligned and they missed all of that in QC department?

BTW, my crankset is 175mm one
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [cdorcy] [ In reply to ]
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cdorcy wrote:
P2max emailed me the other day that their engineers have tracked the issue to the rotor cranks and that the “spindle has not been mounted at the correct angle with the drive side crank arm” and p2max has found that all of their 172.5 3d24s in stock today are affected by this (I dont know about any other current or past stock). They are sending me new cranks when their next shipment arrives from rotor which makes me happy because the pm itself simply works perfectly all the time.
That's interesting. I have a 172.5 3d24 and I've always noticed a wobble. I also have issues with the front derailleur missing an upshift from time to time, which could be caused by the wobble.
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [nchristi] [ In reply to ]
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nchristi wrote:
That's interesting. I have a 172.5 3d24 and I've always noticed a wobble. I also have issues with the front derailleur missing an upshift from time to time, which could be caused by the wobble.

What chainrings are you using? I was very unimpressed by the quality of Rotor aero chainrings, as described in this thread. Mounted on the crank the wobble had an amplitude of about 1mm.
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [marcofoils] [ In reply to ]
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I have the Praxis chainrings (52/36).
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [nchristi] [ In reply to ]
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I have ordered new crankset from another store. It arrived yesterday and I remounted the spider. No wobble! Feels so strange!

I am puzzled how you guys get any sensible responses from the support folks at P2M or Rotor. Rotor told me 3 times in a row to get lost. P2M was very slow and it took them a month to essentially agree with me that crankset is the probable source of the problem. Still, they didn't acknowledge somebody else might be having the same problem or offered anything other than checking the crankset when I send it back.

Now I am going to send the broken crank back to P2M and see what they say.

BTW, my broken crankset has the serial number starting with 75ODUx. The working one starts with 75PSLx

Update as of Sep 11th: I noticed on my credit card statement that P2M just sent me a refund covering crankset price.
Last edited by: pmaciolek: Sep 11, 18 14:02
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [pmaciolek] [ In reply to ]
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I just saw this. One thing I notice is that you've got the big ring outer pin hitting your crank arm. With Praxis rings, you need to take a 2mm allen and either remove that pin or shim it out a bit. That will cause your rings to bend or sit at an angle. I know you had the arm issue, but check the pin too if you haven't already.
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Re: Power2Max NGeco + Rotor3D24 wobble normal? [jfranci3] [ In reply to ]
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I received two pins with the chainrings. I recall I was so desperate I tried the other pin to see if it will maybe push the ring (it made little to no difference actually). Not sure which one was installed when recording the video...
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