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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [Salmon Steve] [ In reply to ]
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Its even made the national "press" in the UK (ok for those that don't know The Sun is basically a Murdoch owned gossip tabloid with a daily "page 3" girl and a sideline in awful puns)

http://www.thesun.co.uk/...n-Championships.html

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Tri storm erupts over ‘Dirty Harry’
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [parkito] [ In reply to ]
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Oh please.

parkito wrote:
Anyone who thinks it is within the rules probably doesn't have a very good moral base for the remaining aspects of their lives.

29 years and counting
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
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I think the problem is that triathlon is a young sport and barely professional (i.e. not many can make a decent living at it) when compared to more established sports. This means that many people, including those on this forum, see it only as a hobby. If you look at cycling (esp. sprints), track & field (esp 800m and 1500m), or any of the team sports (football/soccer....loads of dirty stuff considered normal, rugby (esp in the scrum), etc), there is a lot of stuff that goes on that is not in the 'morals' of the game or whatever you want to call it. The fact is, these people are competing at the top end of their sports, often for a lot of money and any advantage that can be gotten away with will be taken. Perhaps HW went a bit too far, but the basic idea of what he did I have no problem with......he guides JG away from the group. There's nothing to say he has to swim in the draft. It's no different if someone deliberately blocks you in during an 800m race, or a racing car driver making their car 'wide' in F1, forcing you into the dirty line (or going slow deliberately to allow their teammate to eke out a gap in front whilst blocking you from overtaking). OK, so maybe the physicality of it went beyond the limits but complaining about HW not letting him swim in the slipstream is sad. If you don't like the line then swim faster or go behind (like he eventually did). If/when triathlon becomes a 'bigger' sport you will undoubtedly see more of this 'dirty play' as some of you might say. Triathlon at the ITU level is becoming a team sport and this is highlighted even more so by JB's comments about blocking/slowing the leading group to allow his brother to catch-up. Personally, I think it makes the sport more exciting and interesting to watch.
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [Magwister] [ In reply to ]
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Question: Is there anyone here, who is defending Harry Wiltshire, who is NOT from the UK?


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“He is happy whose circumstances suit his temper but he is more excellent who can suit his temper to any circumstances” David Hume
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [The Real Animal] [ In reply to ]
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I posted this awhile back -- something that happened to me on the swim during an Oly tri. AGers can get very surly during the swim. Javier Gomez kept his cool after being deliberately hacked in the water.

Previous Post:

At the suggestion of a few STers, I'm moving this comment to a post into a new thread for comments. I raced the OCTri last Sunday. I'm new to triathlon and this really caught me off guard, particularly since I'm not a particularly strong swimmer.

I had a very freaky moment in the water (swimming is not my strength). When rounding the first buoy, someone was passing me and we bumped a couple of times. On my stroke my arm came down on his back. Suddenly he grabbed my head and put me in a choke hold and dunked me under. I totally panicked while trying to catch my breath and wondering if I'd be drowned. I pushed away from him just as he pulled back and threw a punch. Luckily he missed and I started yelling at him to leave me alone and yelled for the Lifeguards to get him out of the water and off of me. (He kept shouting "how dare you hit my back"). His goggles came down when he tried to grab me again and I took off swimming. I went under for a few seconds and removed my swim cap and surfaced next to a few other swimmers so that he couldn't track me down and try anything. I was totally winded from the adrenaline and swam slowly the rest of the swim just to get out safely. I didn't see him again, thankfully. The race folks in the boat yelled for him to back off and started over so they may have pulled him out of the race.

I figure I lost 2 minutes or so in the swim but got my head together once I got on the bike. Hopefully he won't do something like that to someone else in subsequent races. With his wetsuit, etc I couldn't see any race number.

I actually had a very good time (for me) but must admit that I was very close to getting out of the water and dropping out of the race and finding a new sport. I cannot recall any race that I've done where I wasn't knocked around a bit in the water but everyone just got on with the race. I hope this behavior is not common.

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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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JD21 wrote:
I posted this awhile back -- something that happened to me on the swim during an Oly tri. AGers can get very surly during the swim. Javier Gomez kept his cool after being deliberately hacked in the water.

Previous Post:

At the suggestion of a few STers, I'm moving this comment to a post into a new thread for comments. I raced the OCTri last Sunday. I'm new to triathlon and this really caught me off guard, particularly since I'm not a particularly strong swimmer.

I had a very freaky moment in the water (swimming is not my strength). When rounding the first buoy, someone was passing me and we bumped a couple of times. On my stroke my arm came down on his back. Suddenly he grabbed my head and put me in a choke hold and dunked me under. I totally panicked while trying to catch my breath and wondering if I'd be drowned. I pushed away from him just as he pulled back and threw a punch. Luckily he missed and I started yelling at him to leave me alone and yelled for the Lifeguards to get him out of the water and off of me. (He kept shouting "how dare you hit my back"). His goggles came down when he tried to grab me again and I took off swimming. I went under for a few seconds and removed my swim cap and surfaced next to a few other swimmers so that he couldn't track me down and try anything. I was totally winded from the adrenaline and swam slowly the rest of the swim just to get out safely. I didn't see him again, thankfully. The race folks in the boat yelled for him to back off and started over so they may have pulled him out of the race.

I figure I lost 2 minutes or so in the swim but got my head together once I got on the bike. Hopefully he won't do something like that to someone else in subsequent races. With his wetsuit, etc I couldn't see any race number.

I actually had a very good time (for me) but must admit that I was very close to getting out of the water and dropping out of the race and finding a new sport. I cannot recall any race that I've done where I wasn't knocked around a bit in the water but everyone just got on with the race. I hope this behavior is not common.

It's VERY uncommon. I've done over 200 races and never had anything close to that happen. I've hit/kicked lots of people and been hit/kicked lots; my goggles have been knocked off a few times. However, all of that was accidental contact (too many people trying to get around the first buoy usually) and you just roll with it, and realize the guy hitting you didn't mean to. Never has someone purposely attacked me or vice versa. You had the bad luck to find the one a-hole in the pack.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [KingJulian] [ In reply to ]
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With all due respect to that, having a father who was a professional sportsmen for 25years (won a world championship/americas cup in sailing and made the olympics in downhill skiing) I saw first hand how important results were for an athlete. I have NEVER said sport is life and death! My original point was that to dismiss any events that happen in an event as"its only a sport" belittles the athletes.

For us amateurs it is completely different, we do sport for the love of it, its a great way to stay fit, make new friends and travel the world. But I think we are deluding ourselves if we think professional athletes whose liveliehoods depend on their results should have exactly the same attitude.


Fulla you are really of the mark with your comment, I am NOT saying that WE (the amateur) should take sport too seriously, but rather we should respect PROFFESSIONAL athletes who have full right to take the sport seriosuly as I am sure many do with your own jobs.

This is all getting a little off topic to the original discussion, regardless it is nice to see some ITU stuff on ST. The speed and depth of talent in ITU is extraordinary. Was in London yesteray and had a look around the olympic course, cant wait till the Olympics next year!




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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [cannastar] [ In reply to ]
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Tell your dad I said congratulations.

Respect would be better directed at those who graft for a living or work two jobs to make ends meet. I bet they'd much rather swan around on a yacht for a quarter of a century. Simply being a pro athlete doesn't earn you respect and it's really not a big deal at all.
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [KingJulian] [ In reply to ]
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If that belittles anyone then I'm sorry but it's only sport. Sport is designed for people to enjoy and if you choose to make a career out of it then great. But it's still only sport.
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [KingJulian] [ In reply to ]
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Be careful; There is a great deal of "business" associated with "sport"; there is an infrastructure where people make their living due to sport, not just the athletes. The janitors, ticket sales, etc. You can then also begin putting a scale on other jobs that may be frivolous and say that those earning a living from those occupations should not be taken seriously either i.e hair salons, cosmetics, movies, the list is pretty big.
Bottom line is that there is a market for that occupation; someone can earn a "wage" from it and the market will have a great deal of say as to how much one can earn from participating; but to dismiss it as just a "sport", is a little strong IMHO.
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [Salmon Steve] [ In reply to ]
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Salmon Steve wrote:
the-dude wrote:

Wiltshire was DQ'd for this and for good reason. He SHOULD BE BANNED from any more ITU events for the rest of the year. He is a prick of the most disease infested kind known to mankind.


It's sport - it isn't life and death? I think you're being a little OTT. (But that last statement was pretty funny)



So 1 1/2 pages of comments regarding the term "it's just sport" when that's not actually what I said in the first place. Typical Slowtwitch. I realise that lots of people have added their 2 cents worth since and some of them may of implied 'it's just sport'. But for the record the-dude originally called Harry "a prick of the most disease infested known to mankind" and my comments above "It's sport - it isn't life and death" were related to that. And despite the ensuing 1.5 pages I still think he was over the top, but it's been a great journey.

What can I change the subject of my original post so this one drops away....hmmmm
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [KingJulian] [ In reply to ]
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'Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.' ...Bill Shankly

It's all a matter of perspective, and we all have very different points of view on everything in life.

Quite frankly, my perspective is that Harry has been a total tit and got his collar felt. Hopefully he has learnt his lesson and accepted his punishment of being DQ'd and attracting wide spread condemnation from the worlds triathlon community.

Having read through all of the posts on this topic i think it's fair to say we all hold the same views on this, he cheated and we don't want that kind of behaviour in OUR sport. not from an age grouper and least of all and Elite level athlete.

The kid is young and made a very big mistake, lets put it down to youthful inexperience and and naivety, and give him a chance to rebuild his reputation and career. No need for a public execution. But if he does it again.....!

Yes I British and No I'm not defending the Kid, he cheated in the most blatant sense of the word and deserves what he got coming to him, but lets keep this in perspective.
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [the-dude] [ In reply to ]
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the-dude wrote:
Question: Is there anyone here, who is defending Harry Wiltshire, who is NOT from the UK?

Yup, Dutch here and I can't see anything wrong with that video. Just some close racing. In ITU racing you have to be in the pack otherwise there off and you're left on the road. It is not like Ironman racing were you can make up with a good bike section. Even strong cyclist can't go as fast as a chasing pack and all packs are chasing as they want to catch up with the lead swimmers and the lead swimmers want to stay up front. You just have to make sure you are there for the swim (I never was).

The 0:15 arm manouvre is not strange. Happens all the time, you are there, my arm is there. What are you suppose to do, back off? It is EU champs not kindergarten. Same for the stumbling on the steps, see no deliberate fault in that. Certainly not the 'looking back and wating to block me' that JG is claiming. Just a lot of pushing from JG who is probably already frustrated at that point in time.

The only 'fault' HW can be accounted for is the leading away JG from the main pack. It is not in his own benefit to take that route so it could be seen as obstructing JG but as said before JG just could have gone behind HW and head back to the pack. It will always be difficult to determine what is 'fair racing' and what is 'dirty' but this level for me is just in the 'racing' category. The whole concept of ITU racing with countries but forbidding team-play has always amazed me. Don't know if they changed that rule but you were not even allowed to chaise behind a lead group as a team. As long as people train together and race together they will form teams and help each other against opponents. It will be hard to disallow/prove that. HW saw an opportunity to let an opponent work a bit harder and took that opportunity. Don't see a whole lot wrong with that.

I can't seem to find a reaction of HW on the accusations. Would be interesting to know what his point of view is.


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....the race is long, and in the end, it’s only with yourself (Baz Luhrmann/Mary Schmich)
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [KingJulian] [ In reply to ]
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ummm. That wasn't my point at all. The point was to illustrate that being a professional sportsmen is a job and success means one can bring up a family with more means. i.e. when he performs he gets more money to support his family (which I am a part of).


In respect to swanning around on a yacht, I think that pretty insulting, but hey you probably know nothing about yacht racing at an elite level especially how physically demanding it is, so I will let you off on that. Skiing is also pretty laidback I hear also, not dangerous or physically demanding.


I am sorry you took it that wrong way, that I was trying to earn respect. If you re-read my post you would realise that I was trying to illustrate a point from a personal example. I am defensive over the belittling of sportsmen partly because of my own experience. There is no need to turn this into some sort of moral argument over the worth of sportsmen vs people who work two jobs.

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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [cannastar] [ In reply to ]
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I agree completely! To belittle anyone's profession, no matter if it's in entertainment, is immature and shows a lack of understanding regarding economics. If people are willing to pay you money for what you do (legally), then it is a profession and deserves just as much respect as anything else. At the end of the day, your product is only worth what people are willing to pay for it, plain and simple. The fact that someone would say that it's just sport sounds like a sorry excuse to defend Wiltshire, and it doesn't hold water, and shows poor character.

I think that cheating in triathlon is just as bad in principle as cheating in banking (or cycling!) or any other business. You may say that it's just sport, but people's lives and livelihoods are affected and that is why it matters.

Did Wiltshire cheat? Yes. That is why he was disqualified by the ITU Authorities. If you want to dispute whether the ITU Authorities were wrong, then I guess you feel that your expertise and credentials are of higher level than theirs.

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“He is happy whose circumstances suit his temper but he is more excellent who can suit his temper to any circumstances” David Hume
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [the-dude] [ In reply to ]
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Poll on UK mag 220s website. Guess its one of the only ways to establish opinion properly...

http://www.220triathlon.com/...-wiltshire-out-order
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [talderson] [ In reply to ]
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What’s wrong?

The ITU is aware of incidents at the European Championships involving Harry Wiltshire (GBR) and Javier Gomez (ESP) during the swim portion of the elite men’s race. The chief swim official reported Wiltshire was in violation of the following rules: 2.1 a.) (i), 3.3 a.) (i), Appendix L 6. and Appendix L 7. As a result, Wiltshire was disqualified. The Spanish Triathlon Federation has appealed the incident and the ITU Executive Board will review the possibility of further action.

2.1. General Conduct:
a.) Triathlon and ITU’s other related multisports involve many athletes. Race tactics are part of the interaction between athletes. Athletes will:
(i) Practice good sportsmanship at all times;

3.3. Disqualification:
a.) General:
(i) A disqualification is a penalty appropriate for severe rule violations, or
dangerous or unsportsmanlike conduct.

Appendix L 6. and Appendix L 7.

6. Blocking, charging, obstructing, or interfering the forward progress of another athlete;
- Unintentionally: verbal warning
- Intentionally: DSQ

7. Unfair contact. The fact that contact occurs between athletes does not constitute a violation. When several athletes are moving in a limited area, contact may occur. This incidental contact between athletes in equally favourable positions, is not a violation;
- Unintentionally: verbal warning
- Intentionally: DSQ

"I just went as fast as I could and was racing as hard as I could," Alistair said. "I just wanted to get back in the race. I had great support from the team. Todd did some great pulling and Jonny did some blocking. I'm sure he would have won if he hadn't."


Director - Checkmate Triathlon Team
Intelligent Racing
Draft, baby, draft.
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Re: Gomez comments re Harry Wiltshire? [roryseiter] [ In reply to ]
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