I did a similar process to my chainrings that Premier does with chains. That was before the time of power meters, so I don’t know if there was a wattage savings. They did “feel” much smoother and were quieter. This was to the older bare aluminum Campy rings and you could feel all those sharp edges from the machining. I am not sure how if would change with some of the anodized coatings (or whatever they are).

My other idea was to try a molybdenum coating on a cassette. I found some old military surplus spray coating that worked OK, but the spray nozzle would clog long before I was 10% of the way through the can. I think the best way to find this stuff is from a gun supply place.

Now what I really wish I could find was the old DIY thin film coatings. We used to do piston skirts in street rods. That stuff was slick (pun intended) and easy to use. Spray on a then bake the part. Let me know if you ever find that stuff.

We can feel a difference when we take better care of our chains.

Question: how long does that difference last? One ride?

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Interesting stuff. From a personal standpoint, I was thinking mainly Fixed gear (track) application, where (at least 1/8) technology is pretty well stuck in the past.

The Molybdenum coating is an interesting idea, as is the film coating... there are a lot of automotive "hot rod" coatings, hard to know which ones are junk (or even transfer to bicycle application)

I can see how Premier's process could be beneficial, but that kind of equipment is high dollar. I might dump some of my old cogs/chains in the harbor freight tumbler and see what happens :O

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

Its called Shimano Dura ace 7800, it was all the rage.

Huh?

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

Doing a wax job on a part or system is totally different than doing work on the surface of a metal part that interacts with another metal part and then adding wax.

The sliding action of "part-on-part" is very different than the interaction of the chain roller on the cassette with respect to friction (drag). In the chain we are saving energy in the reduction of friction between the parts - rubbing, sometimes rubbing, hopefully not rubbing and reducing those micro peaks on the surface. Wax and coatings will only help for a very short time. Some coatings are better than others.

The drive chain efficiency is created on the surfaces you can't see.

It's puzzling to me to see powders packed on the outside surfaces of a chain after a waxing. I don't get that - but I don't get a lot of things :-)

For Premier, to do the work on a metal part (engine part, transmission item, gears or chains) a few things need to be known: metal case hardening value, was the part made from powdered metal and baked, plating/coating, underlying material etc.. The process takes some time to work out because we are in effect attacking the peaks on the part - that's why we turn down requests to do one-off chains. I could take say a Dura-Ace chain and work out the process and then offer that as a standard item. But, it is very unlikely I could run Dura-Ace with Whipperman with YBN and get good results.

A wax job on all those at the same time - sure. But you will only get 1/2 the benefit and that will be gone in a few 100 miles.

I don't see where we can get much reduction on a cassette cog.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Hey Dan,

thanks for the input. I've still got a chain you did for me actually (although a nasty crash last year has had it sitting on the shelf unused :( )

It's unfortunate that it's pretty tough to test efficiency without some special equipment (I'd guess... probably too much noise on rollers to test like crr? TomA? Thoughts?)

I'd agree on 3/32 drivetrains there probably isn't much as the cassette is already pretty smooth/narrow. Some of my Track cogs/rings (1/8) are not all that smooth though... not sure if it's by design or not, but they could definitely be smoother running down the ridges.

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

As with a race car motor - they are as fast as they get just before the blow up.

A Dura-Ace chain is fast out of the box with grease removed and waxed because its a very loose chain to start with. If I was a home waxer - I would use a loose chain like Dura-Ace or Ultegra.

A Wipperman is tight out of the box and - even with grease removed and waxed - it would not perform well unless it had our treatment (unless it was really well run-in) - but then lasts a long long time.

We have done some work with athletes going for the 1 hour challenge or track finals that want every watt but in those cases I have tried to steer them away from chains like DID etc.. to a similar track chain where we already know the chain, the chemistry and process run times. In those cases we can really work the chain hard. It will not last as long but will be super fast for the attempt or a few events.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

I thought I had read on your site that the reason you selected the Wipperman as the base for your optimized chain was because it was already a very "loose" chain. I've been using Wipperman chains myself based on that information. I just did a brand new one last week and I'd say it was extremely loose - sloppy even - once I got the original lube cleaned.

The tolerances on the Wipperman are very tight. Its a very well made chain. The quick link is the best made.

Over a season - a Wipperman is great. But, if I had an A race in a few weeks and needed a new chain (and did not want to pay for an optimized chain) there are other chains I might select.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Just share in my .02 cents worth.... In the early and mid-90's I was big into motorcycle racing on tracks, ie: crotch rockets. I lived in Colorado and found a former Honda race team mechanic who had a secret process for friction reduction. Essentially, isotropic polishing. He was the only guy around that did this stuff in the early 90's, and his company was called Supra-Tech, his name is Dennis Zickrck (spelling maybe off slightly). He could take crank bearings, cranks, rods, pistons, lifters, pushrods, gears, chains, etc, put them into his "dishwasher" looking machine and they would come out super-polished. He had plenty of magazine articles, and letters from all sorts of race teams, cars, motorcycle, karts, etc. that used his process and found results. What I learned from him was this.... a coating will always wear off due to friction and interaction. But, a surface treatment will always yield better results as it doesn't add to the material (and then get worn away).

In the firearms world, in order to accurize barrels, there was a company on the in the Houston area called Blackstar Accurizing. Essentially, they did electro-polishing of barrels which would remove and smooth out imperfections based on electro-chemical reactions, removing micro layers of the barrel bore to smooth out rifling cuts. I would suspect that these processes would be beneficial on a drivetrain. Whereas a coating, ie: teflon, molybenum, graphite, etc would wear off and be worthless .

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Team Zoot-Texas, and Pickle Juice