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Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3.
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I read with great interest the article in Triathlete on Peter Reid's bike used at Ironman. We all read it here in the store. When each of us looked at it we realized, hey, basically Reid's custom Specialized S Works, that is not available to any consumers, is a stock Cervelo P3. Think about it: Low head tube, longish top tube and a 76 degree seat angle. I can make that bike geometry on a P3 in fifteen minutes with an allen wrench, and the weight distribution is still perfect.

Also, another post in the thread on Armstrong's "new" position mentioned Trek could end their expereince earlier by putting Armstrong on a P3 with Trek decals. I bet that is more correct than any of us realize.

Yeah, I love the P3. It is an incredible machine. And yeah, I sell them- but first I had to buy them! (and I do own one myself).

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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You can get that position on a '96 QR PR too. I have one at home, still can't figure why newer tri-bikes are better :-)

-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [Hid] [ In reply to ]
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You guys are priceless... but where are the Trek logos (and associated lame paint job...in my view the worst in the industry) that I alluded to in the other post ?
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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I can get the Trek geometry on my 72 degree Holland steel road bike, too. And on a Merlin, a Softride, a P2K, a Colnago, a Cannondale, a ...

Bike frames are nothing special, and they don't determine our positions. The bits and pieces of hardware we bolt on them determine our positions.
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Well tom I guess that what you want to say is that all companies should close their production, buy cervelos and repaint them. Or maybe cervelo should be the only bike manufacturer.

That’s it, the problem is solved, cervelos for every one.



Sergio Marques

www.sergio-marques.com
Last edited by: sergio: Feb 12, 04 12:04
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [Julian] [ In reply to ]
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There is position which can be achieved on any bike and then there is weight dist (which Tom alludes to) and handling (which I alluded to) which is clearly affected by weight dist. Gerard rightfully states that he can get the identical positoin on a 50 or 62 cm bike by playing with seat post, rails, stack and stem. The weight dist is critical and in the TdF, paramount. Ask Jan Ullrich who hit the pavement on the final TT on his Bianchi. Bad handling ? Coincidence ? Or too much weight on the front end ? We don't know, but a man in the Jan's position at second overall in the TdF should have not gone down in that spot given the radio reports of the many who had also gone down.
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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No CSC riders went down on that roundabout? I remember one Once rider going down too.

-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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actually, it was not a bianchi but a Walser.
the same bike Lothar Leder rode in Hawaii this year (with cube decals)
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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Now that’s new!!!!

When Michael Schumacher crashes his Ferrari this can only mean that the Ferrari is not well balanced.

If Ulrich raced on a P3 on that day and not a repainted Walser he would win the tour. I have to call Ulrich and tell him to buy a P3 and repaint it with Giant logo ASAP.

Sergio Marques

http://www.sergio-marques.com

=====================================
S�rgio Marques
When it hurts is when it feels good ;-)
Sergio-Marques.com
Last edited by: sergio: Feb 12, 04 12:15
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [sergio] [ In reply to ]
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Sergio, please do call Jan and tell him to slap giant decals on a P3....

I'm not saying he would have won the TdF, but there is a slight chance that he may have not gone done...and again, it is only a chance :-)
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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There are a lot of problems with that argument. First of all, Ullrich was not riding an extremely forward position as the nose of his seat was 5 cm behind the bottom bracket.

There is no mystery to good handling on a steep angled tri-bike - it all comes down to getting as much weight as possible off the front wheel and on to the back wheel. This is accomplished by short chainstays and a long enough top tube. Cervelo certainly understands this but so do a lot of other manufacturers.
Last edited by: john: Feb 12, 04 12:30
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
There is position which can be achieved on any bike and then there is weight dist (which Tom alludes to) and handling (which I alluded to) which is clearly affected by weight dist.


Yes, you are absolutely right. It so happens that my traditionally designed road bike has the same (1) chainstay length, (2) front-center, and (3) trail as many steep-seatposted tri bikes (and, of course, the same wheelbase). Meaning that my body can be draped over each bike in the exact same position, and the bikes will have the exact same weight distribution and handling.

This is not unique to my bike, by the way; I've read enough geometry charts on the bike co's websites to know. Slowman has mentioned this from time to time. The reason for the tribike wasn't to distribute weight differently when riding foward and low -- it was simply to allow the parts to be bolted on to allow us to get forward and low. Dan's recent trial of a slack-headed, low-rake bike is his first attempt to fundamentally change weight distribution.
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [john] [ In reply to ]
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Ullrich's seat may have been 5cm behind the BB, but his posture did not put his weight there. He was riding the nose. WE see the video in here every single, solitary day several times on the monitor on the sales floor.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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"I read with great interest the article in Triathlete on Peter Reid's bike used at Ironman."

That makes one of us but that's why you are in the bike business and I am not. Does the bike really matter any more at the elite level? Why don't they have an article on Reid's running shoes. That would make more sense to me.
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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I test rode all the high end bikes and nothing had the feel to me of the P2K and the P3. I agree Tom it is an awesome bike and I love mine. If I had to do it again I would go the same way. Kepp up the good work Cervelo...




"You're guaranteed to miss 100% of the shots you never take" - Wayne Gretzky
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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The walser or any other bike can be better balanced than the P3, don’t know. But that’s not the reason why Ulrich crashed, at that speed maybe he would crash any funky frame that you can think of.

My guess is that the P3 has a secret micro chip that automatically adjusts the balance of the bike, when riding on 74º and then change to a 77º.

Sergio Marques

http://www.sergio-marques.com
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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"Ullrich's seat may have been 5cm behind the BB, but his posture did not put his weight there. He was riding the nose. WE see the video in here every single, solitary day several times on the monitor on the sales floor."

So that puts him at what - 75 or 76 degrees? I don't consider that extremely steep. Ullrich wrecked on that corner because he was riding all-out to try to put time on Armstrong. Just about anybody who hit that corner as fast as he did would have gone down (Millar, Peschel, etc.). Armstrong stayed up because he was sitting up and doing about 10 mph less, not because his bike handled better.
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [john] [ In reply to ]
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Is this turning into an Ullrich discussion? Cool.

My take on it was that Ullrich slowed for the corner, but not enough to keep from falling down. Lance tiptoed around and made it unscathed. Ullrich was doing the right thing, because his only chance at yellow was to take serious risks. He did what he needed to. Lance could afford to be more conservative, with a minute and a bit in hand over Ullrich. He did what he needed to.

Oh, I'm almost positive that the nose of Ullrich's seat was more than 5 cm behind the BB, more along the lines of 8 or 9 cm. The walser frame has a 74 degree seat angle, Ullrichs saddle was clamped about in the middle of the rails, and that seat is a long way up there.
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [john] [ In reply to ]
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Don't forget, you can really hold your speed going "into a roundabout" as the road camber works in your favour. When you are going "out of the roundabout", the road camber works against you, and a larger guy like Ullrich going 10 mph faster than Lance would be at a great distadvantage. Neverthessless, I think overall Ullrich's front to rear balance was more towards the front than most riders in the same TT. He was also faster than most riders :-). Can it be solved this year on a P3 with Giant decals. Well we won't know unless Jan/Rudy call Gerard and give it a go :-).
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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I'll bet Peter's custom S-works is a full pound lighter if not more. The P3 is beautiful, but when are they going to address the weight issue? My guess is the beautiful seat tube is so complex a shape there is a ton of extra material there, not to mention extra welding.

When it comes to fit, I still can't beat my '94 QR kilo. That weighed in at... a kilo. I wish slowman was still making frames. Nothing on the market these days is that impressive. Ended up replacing the QR with a Calfee made to the same measurements as my QR, only carbon. Still shopping for something with pinache like my '92 Holland R-26. I'd still ride it if the top tube weren't so darn long from older fit concepts back then. Actually, it's the same dimensions as today's P3. Hmmm. Maybe I should get it out of the box.
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [Hid] [ In reply to ]
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You men are chattering on about bikes with this picture of a NAKED LANCE??? Can I get a larger copy? Or one of George Hincapie???

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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Well, the discussion would have taken a different tone if the P3 showed Lori in her "painted on body suit" a la triathlete mag cover from 4 years ago.
Last edited by: devashish paul: Feb 12, 04 14:13
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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now that´s interesting, do you have pictures of that ;-)

=====================================
S�rgio Marques
When it hurts is when it feels good ;-)
Sergio-Marques.com
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Re: Peter Reid, Lance Armstrong and the Cervelo P3. [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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One of my friends (in the right place at the right time) got Lance to sign a few copies of the Vanity Fair magazine photo and gave one to me. It's framed now -- doesn't trip my trigger but it's a great conversation piece at parties. Wonder how Annie Leibovitz gets those great celebrity shoots!
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