I've got my popcorn ready for this one.

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"Unless you have a ... GF who might put out that night and that night only ... skip it and race." - AndyPants 3-15-2007

keep careful logs of total training time and intensity for the 6 month period before and after starting the use of powercranks

as well as careful logs of cycling PRs before and after

that way you can carefully evaluate their value.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

And….post #1.

Registered in 2007...

Patiently waited to plug PC.

Just ride like you would for your indoor trainer rides trying to get your wattage and FTP up (if you don't have power, just use heart rate or perceived exertion). No need to do anything differently. Keep your cadence around the same as regular riding (or gradually bring it up to that). 60-90 min is plenty on the trainer. No need to noodle around for hours on end....that is a waste of time.

For run training, work on high cadence moderate wattage and do things like 4 min or 6 min intervals to simulate run intervals.

By the way, starting threads on this forum about powercranks is technically banned. Just don't start a thread saying you were lifting weights, with Lance and the two of you went for a powercranks ride with Hincapie, and Travis Tygart saw you guys not using blood bags.

For what it is worth, my understanding was that some of the top Belgian age groupers in Kona Sam Gyde and Stefanie Adam train a lot on them:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...f_Sam_Gyde_3995.html

Sam averaged 278W for a 4:30 Kona bike split. Stefanie went 4:49.

Dev

This made me chuckle. We need a GIF now. On my phone so I'm too lazy!

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The Rat Snake:
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Just to make sure you use up your ATT bandwidth on useless stuff:

Thanks Dev! You're always very helpful!

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The Rat Snake:
A Tribute Race at Gilbert Lake State Park, Laurens, NY May 16 2015
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Here you go.

Can never have too many... :) thanks!

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The Rat Snake:
A Tribute Race at Gilbert Lake State Park, Laurens, NY May 16 2015
Follow the Rat Snake on Twitter

Sam is like a .....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI7qw4Q57e0

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If Sam is going sub 4:30 at Kona I'd say he wasn't drafting - he was the one doing the passing and others hoped to maybe draft off him.

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I am saying he is a Belgium Animal strong as a horse. NOT drafting!!
I happen to know Sam and know he would NEVER EVER Draft , dope or cheat in any manner! If only he could swim though ;0)

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Ok - I am relatively new around here but is the consensus that people don't like PowerCranks? Curious as I just bought them too! Did I miss something?

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Member of FishTwitch - Arriving to T1 alone and watching you go by on the run.
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No, there is no consensus which is part of the problem. Some people hate them, others quietly use them in a variety of ways. Some swear by the great results post powercrank use, others used them and stopped using them, while others have never used them and debate about them. There was a time when 20% of all threads were violent debates about powercranks which is why forum users were asked to not start threads on the topic of their use.

I'll be using mine for high RPM work on the rollers this winter to help rehab a hamstring injury, while at the same time, I will also be using a regular crank equipped bike on the computrainer for "conventional" bike training.

They appeal intuitively to people because part of the mythos of cycling is that a smooth, round pedal stroke is efficient. Thus it seems plausible that power cranks could force your body to adopt a more smooth, round pedal stroke where power is applied more evenly around the pedal circle.

Unfortunately, reality is that this idea has been thoroughly investigated and there is no evidence that evenly applying the power around the pedal stroke is more efficient, nor do the worlds best cyclist have round pedal stroke even if they think they do. ( lab and real world in agreement in other words)

It is an aerobic sport and pushing down, not pulling back or up, is actually the most efficient way to use your oxygen.

So anyway of course people suggest all kinds of indirect benefits because it is hard to cognitively accept something you have bought into is completely pointless. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/...oice-supportive_bias )

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I do all my bike training with powercranks.

Some benefits:
- level out strength difference left/right leg (was huge issue for me and main reason I bought them)
- strengthen hipflexors, hamstrings and core muscles with positive impact on running (and biking as well since you can pull all the time)
- strengthen quads (because cadence drops when training on PC, you tend to ride bigger gears - if you maintain same power output - which made my quads much stronger)
- great alternative if you can't run for a while

Cons:
- it is a controversial product (but all people I know who use them love them so the controversy is usually initiated by people not having any experience)
- the design: all your power is transferred via bearings - it requires a smooth riding style or you might wreck them (they are easily replaced though) / hard to mount them on some frame types
- it is tough (should actually be listed under benefits as far as I am concerned)
- price (depends how you look at it - in terms of ROI they are a real bargain compared to other cycling parts)

As far as I am concerned, I will never ever bike without powercranks...

And before anybody comments: I am sponsored by powercranks (they provide me the cranks) but I started riding on them without them supporting me. Even without being sponsored by them, my comments would be exactly the same.

Sam
samgyde.com

...and I agree with what Jack is saying here. Easier to get your recovery leg over the top dead center of the pedal stroke with the other leg pushing down and then pulling back a bit than trying to do it with your hip flexor. Powercranks seem to have a really nice benefit in sports where you don't have your pushing down leg helping your recovery leg like running, XC skiing, Speed skating. It's is almost counter intuitive that the tool that is attached to the bike helps all these other sports that have nothing to do with biking! Also, I feel that noodling around on powercranks actually detrains the main cycling muscles because you are working your "lifting muscles" just as much, but detraining the quads, which is why I told the OP if he is going to use them on the trainer, hammer hard so his quads gets a normal training load. For those who were around "back in the day" you might recall Steve Larsen saying that he did not use them or recovery rides....just hard trainer rides.

One angle that I feel is overlooked is the overall additional aerobic conditioning of using powercranks. If we assert that they are less oxygen efficient to go at the same power, then what we are doing is creating more aerobic load on every powercrank ride for the same power output. Then going back to regular cranks you are just in better shape (kind of like my FTP being higher during XC ski season on hardly any biking because I have a massive aerobic load in that sport, that I just can't do day over day in biking or running....my cardio is just better). The opposite discussion is that you can get just as much aerobic load on regular cranks riding harder. In theory I agree, but in practice, it is like the difference between riding home on a flat ride or on a 6% grade. In theory you can ride both at 90% FTP, but in practice you're more likely to load yourself into a higher aerobic load on the 6% percent grade ride. It gets even better when your buddies are riding conventional cranks and you have to keep up on PC's. Add in some 32 mm high Crr training tires, and flappy clothing and you're likely working 33% harder just to stay in the group :-)

So you race with them as well?

They are a training tool. Just like you have paddles for swimming for example. They make you work harder with the purpose of benefiting of the hard work during a race.
However, I often do B-type races on powercranks just for fun.
For A-races, I usually switch to fixed cranks 3-4 days before the race.

Sam
samgyde.com

Sam, first of all, thanks for coming on here, but also since I used you as an example, it would be nice to get a bit of visibility into how you use them since you cranked out 278W for your 4:30 bike split in Kona:

1. What percent do you use PC's vs conventional cranks....how many hours on each in a typical hawaii build per week
2. Is your wattage the same on both types of cranks
3. Is your cadence the same on both (I think your Kona cadence was averaging around 80 from the article)
4. Do you use PC's to also supplement your run training and reduce overall run volume
5. What crank length are you on?
6. Do you use PC"s outdoors or on trainer or both?

People are likely to respect your responses, because you backed it up with performing in Kona. In theory it should make no difference if it is you or the guy who maximized his genetic potential and biked 6 hours but that's just the way it is, so providing some visibility into your usage model would be helpful.

Hey Dev, you're welcome :-)

What percent do you use PC's vs conventional cranks....how many hours on each in a typical hawaii build per week
100% on powercranks - about 10h a week

Is your wattage the same on both types of cranks
Hard to tell - no powermeter when biking on powercranks :-) (except when biking indoor but that is not comparable with race situation)

Is your cadence the same on both (I think your Kona cadence was averaging around 80 from the article)
Yes, my 'natural cadence is around 80 - both with and without powercranks. It used to be around 94 before I biked on powercranks. I am much more happy with low cadence because of lower metabolic cost

Do you use PC's to also supplement your run training and reduce overall run volume
On average I run 4-5h a week. But I almost didn't run in 2012 from june till the end of august and still did a 3h04 marathon in Kona...

What crank length are you on?
Usually 175 but I have experimented with lengths ranging from 130 to 182.5. It does not make a lot of difference in power output - I am mostly concerned about my position on the bike which I like best with 165-175 range.

Do you use PC"s outdoors or on trainer or both?
Both. But since I usually train after dark, mostly indoors.

Anyway, my opinion might be respected as much as everybody else's. However, if you have never trained for a reasonable amount of time consistently on powercranks, I think it is not fair to issue a strong (negative or positive) opinion.
Try them for yourself first and if you hammered them for 90 days and are dissatisfied, return them to powercranks and you will get your money back and you will be in a position to write something that makes sense here.

Kind regards,
Sam
samgyde.com

I am working on it :-)
Sam
samgyde.com